Just a quick note to say hello to all....I'm a "newbie" here. I've got Hashimoto's Disease and currently taking Levoxyl for it but asked my doctor today if he'd put me on Armour Thyroid instead. It's a natural thyroid as opposed to a synthetic thyroid hormone replacement like I'm on now.
I'll keep reading for helpful information from this forum. I need help!
Secretary Sid

hey secretary sid!

I also have a thyroid problem and I take Armour Thyroid! Some people do ok on the synthetic hormones, but in my professional opinion - Armour Thyroid is the far superior product (natural) as opposed to the synthetic ones.

I also posted some important thyroid information on the Depression boards under "Depression Articles" if you would like to check it out. It is at:
http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/show...6&page=3&pp=15

I hope you feel much much better on the Armour Thyroid! I take 3 grains a day and I feel like myself again! and have finally lost 17 lbs in 11 months! that is a world record for me!

I would be glad to talk to you about any of this.

take care,
Cathy

Hi Cathy,
Congrats on your 17 lb. weight loss. I'm still waiting to hear from my doctor about the Armour Thyroid....I sure hope he prescribes it for me...and I hope it works as well for me as it has for you. I DO need to read the "Depression Articles"....I've started back on Prozac last night. Thanks for the link on depression.
I'll let you know what my doctor decides about the change in medication.
Secretary Sid

Hey Secretary Sid - I truly hope your doc prescribes the Armour Thyroid. Personally, if it were me, after all I have read and learned over the past couple of years, if this doc doesn't prescribed Armour, then I would search until I found a doctor that would. But I know I'm sounding pretty radical.

Please read the Depression Articles as soon as you get a chance. I cannot tell you what a huge part thyroid plays in depression. T3 seems to be a major factor in our mental well being, and if your Free T3 is low (or if you are not absorbing it correctly, which cannot be measured) then you can deal with a lot of different mental problems like depression, anxiety, etc etc etc. Synthroid only contains T4 but Armour contains both T4 AND T3. That is why so many people do not do well on Synthroid and continue to have problems.

I have been saying for 20 years that I have a low thyroid problem, but nothing would really show up on the simple TSH that most doctors do. When I went to the doctor he wanted to put me on antidepressants for my depression. But since he was treating my son's low thyroid problem, I was able to convince him to let me do a trial on the Armour Thyroid. I told him if I didn't start feeling any better in 6 months I would consider antidepressants. Well of course, I started feeling better shortly after starting the Armour and didn't need the anti depressants. Of course, if you need them, fine, but a lot of people are finding that they don't really need an antidepressant once their thyroid is properly treated.

I hope I am helping and not bothering you. I wish someone could have or would have shared all of this with me years ago.

take care,
Cathy

Hi Cathy,
Thanks for your help. My doctor DID put me on Armour Thyroid and I can tell the difference already. I've been on either Synthroid or Levoxyl since the 1970's and could never tell the difference. I've been on Prozac for several years.
It wasn't until I went to a chiropractor for my back that I learned about the T-3 and T-4 thing. He was also the one to tell me about Armour Thyroid.
I'm still taking the Prozac....but if the Armour Thyroid does the trick, I may just stop taking it.
I went to the sites you suggested and I found them very informative and I printed them out.
Just since starting the Armour Thyroid, I've had more energy than I've had in a long time.
You certainly aren't bothering me....I really appreciate any information or help I can get in this area.
Seems as though you and others have been more helpful and have provided me with more information than my own doctor!
That is why I made an appointment with an endocrinologist because my family doctor really didn't shed any light on my problems. Especially depression, weight gain, breathing problems....etc. I didn't even realize that ALL of the problems I was having were related to the Hashimoto's disease.
I also have vitiligo and I didn't realize that you can get that from Hashimoto's.
I've learned a lot this past month!
If you have any more useful information for me....I'd be greatful.

Sid

Please don't "just stop taking" your antidepressants. For most of these drugs you need a doctor-supervised period of cutting back gradually, even if it is determined you don't need them any more. Abruptly stopping the drug can have serious adverse affects. So, if you want to take yourself off of them, please talk to your doctor and work out a plan for doing so.

Hey there Secretary Sid!!!!

I cannot tell you how excited I am that your doctor put you on Armour Thyroid and that you can already tell the difference! That is awesome and seems to be what I am hearing over and over and over again. I am really glad you are feeling better and that you are on the Armour Thyroid.

How much are you currently taking? there are conversion charts at www.armourthyroid.com that tell you how much armour to take in comparison to how much Levoxyl or Synthroid you were taking - but I am finding that most people need more Armour than even the charts are showing.

I was gonna caution you about the same that that funniegirl mentioned. You probably already know this, but be sure to not just quit any anti depressant "cold turkey" and talk with your doctor and read up on withdrawing from these meds. Most people have to do it very slowly in order to keep from having adverse reactions. Just don't want to see you throw yourself for a loop!

Did I mention to you a really good book called "The Thryoid Diet" by Mary Shomon? It is a wealth of info and something you may find very helpful also. You can order it from amazon.com and you can usually find it in your local book stores. At first glance it may look like it is simply a book about your metabolism and losing weight with a thyroid problem, but it has a wealth of important thyroid information in it.

And yes on the vitiligo - my son also has vitiligo. His surfaced around age 5. At that time his doc did blood work but only ran the TSH and did not find the thyroid problem. Told me it was "normal" and I did not even know enough to ask for copies of the bloodwork and to look at the ranges myself. Now I do!!!! Man I wish I knew then what I know now!!!! I would have saved him years of struggles.

Actually I have a file box full of copies of thyroid articles & info (no I'm not obsessed yet LOL) so I'm not sure exactly what other useful info I can share with you - but ask away and I will see what I can find.

Oh one thing I will mention - because my son is also on Prozac - I have discovered that Prozac is actually a fluorinated product and that it can depress your thyroid function. You probably know that things like fluoride and soy can be harmful to your thyroid.

http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/...uorophenyl.htm
" Prozac is a fluorinated drug called "fluoxetine".

Paxil is a fluorinated drug called "paroxetine" (also called Seroxat, Aropax). These drugs are designed to inhibit the reuptake of serotonin (serotonin reuptake inhibitors - SSRIs) and hence interfere with the biological actions of serotonin, a neurotransmitter.

Both drugs contain fluorine and chloride. Fluoride is present as a '4-fluorophenyl' compound, part of the 'active' ingredient.

Fluorophenyl compounds are found as major metabolites in the human organism from Paxil and Prozac, as well as from pesticides as Flusilazole (Anderson et al, 1999), Fluorbenside; FOE 5043 (Christenson et al, 1996), other drugs such as dexfenfluramine ("Redux"; "Fen-Phen" - now withdrawn) (Kalin et al, 2000); Fluvastatin (Top 200 drugs) (Dain et al, 1993); Flutrimazole (skin cream) (Conte et al, 1992); AD-5423 (an anti-psychotic) (Oka et al, 1993), Bay U 3405 (Braun et al, 1990); Cisapride (also now withdrawn from US market), Leflunamide (Arava) etc...

Fluorophenyl compounds have shown to disturb thyroid hormone activity in several ways, specifically in the liver and at the hypothalamus-pituitary-thyroid (HPT) axis.

Observations

In depressed patients receiving paroxetine the T4 level was reduced by 11. 2% (Konig et al, 2000).

In animals chronic administration of fluoxetine results in a decrease in both T4 and T3 levels. The authors reported that the major effect of the drug “seems to be stimulation of TSH synthesis and release via the inhibition of T4-mediated thyroid-pituitary feedback” (Golstein et al, 1983).

In rat brain, fluoxetine has also been shown to interfere with local T3 metabolism (Eravci et al, 2000; Baumgartner et al, 1994)."

My son is still taking prozac but at some point, under his doctor's care, we will try reducing it, but we are aware that it may be part of the reason that his thyroid is so low.

If we had known in the beginning that he actually had a low thyroid problem, we would have treated his thyroid problem first, and probably wouldn't have needed any of the other meds that he is taking. But now he is on meds and his system is use to them, and it will be a slow process reducing them to see how he does.

Here is a good article that you might like to print and read. It is at:
http://www.drrichardhall.com/Articles/hashimoto.pdf

Please be sure to join the naturalthyroidhormone yahoo group if you haven't done so already. You will find all of this info and more there.

Secretary Sid - I am so so very glad that you are on the road to feeling better!!!!

and again, I am glad to help in any way that I can.

take care,
Cathy

Me again!

I just thought of this article that I wanted to post with some good and basic info on taking natural thyroid

NATURAL THYROID 101

1) Armour is the most well known of the Natural Dessicated Thyroid meds and oldest on the market--since the late 1800's! But there is also Westhroid, Naturethroid and prescription generic Thyroid such as by Time Cap Labs. All come from pigs, and all are supposed to have their thyroid powder meet the stringent guidelines of the US
Pharmacopia.

Natural Dessicated Thyroid contain the same hormones that your own thyroid would produce--T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitonin, and that's why natural thyroid is SO superior over T4-only meds. They meet the stringent guidelines of the US Pharmacopoeia and are approved by the FDA.

2) There is also OTC natural thyroid, such as Nutri-Meds and others. These are not regulated, and the potency may be less than Armour and others, so you may have to take more than the FDA-approved brands for the same effect. This may also be true for any "generic" thyroid preparations---they appear to be weaker than the name brands mentioned above.

3) The most biologically effective and direct way to take Natural Thyroid is sublingually. i.e. you place the tablet between your gums and inner check, or where the least amount of saliva is in your mouth, and forget about it. Either way, it is absorbed by the millions of capillaries that line your inner mouth--taking the hormones straight to your blood, bypassing the stomach and liver. Armour has a touch of sucrose in it, making it more palatible.

Natural Thyroid meds CAN be swallowed, of course, and since those like Nature Throid do not have the suitable taste like Armour does, it can be necessary. But it will be important to avoid iron, estrogen and calcium supplements at the same time, since both bind the thyroid hormones to some degree. Swallowing also brings stomach acid into contact with the Calcitonin in Armour, and you may lose on some of it's benefits to your bones. But it's OK if you have to swallow your meds!! You'll get great benefits!

4) Many folks find dividing their dose to at least twice a day, if not more, is optimal for them. It contains T3, which is short-lived, and peaks about 2 hours after you take it. An example is taking 2/3 in the morning, and the other 1/3 in the early afternoon. Some folks dose 3-5 times a day. Some even do it once in the morning, and find that to be very effective. Or, doing it twice in the morning. Experiment to find what is best for you.

5) Before labs were developed, doctors treated patients solely by symptoms....and successfully. This is still an ideal way to treat---by symptoms. But in today's world, labs play a disappointingly huge role in treatment. Top docs in the thyroid field are recommending that your free T3 be in the upper part of the range, if not above.
But you have to figure out where it is great for you, based on symptoms. When you get your free T3 at the top, (or when you dose yourself to eliminate all symptoms) you will often have a TSH quite low. Many of us on an optimal dose (i.e. a dose which eliminates symptoms) have a TSH LESS than one. The TSH is less important once you start treatment, and just because one's TSH can get lower than 1 while getting the free T3 up there, does NOT mean you have become hyper. Many docs are uninformed about this, so be prepared.

6) Armour et. al is bar-none superior to T4-only meds treatment (Synthroid, Levoxyl, etc) because it is natural (your body accepts most ALL of it), it contains direct T3 (the most active hormone and necessary for every cell in your body), and it also contains T2, T1 and calcitonin. T2 has some role in metabolism. Calcitonin keeps the calcium in your bones, and certain docs have noticed improvement in bone density with folks on natural thyroid.

7) Most docs are not knowledgeable about the efficacy and safety of natural thyroid. If you want to find a smart doc, use Armour's LOCATE-A DOC in the LINKS section of this site. Or, check out the Top Doc lists in the LINKS section of this site for your area, But read all entries carefully. When one looks promising, CALL and make sure this doc prescribes Armour REGULARLY, checks the FREE's, and pays attention to SYMPTOMS over labs.

Another option is to visit a large pharmacy in your area and ask the pharmacist if anyone prescribes Armour. And note that it is not uncommon to drive great distances to find a knowledgeable doc.

8) It is not uncommon to discover that you need more natural dessicated thyroid than you realize. An amount that gives you excellent energy may not be quite enough to stop hair loss, etc. Or vice versa. Before the TSH lab came into existence (and played a huge part in ruining good thyroid care), most folks were on 3 grains and more. This is not to say that you will need that much, but it does speak to the reality that you may need more than you realize, or more than lab-obsessed docs will allow.

ALSO NOTE THAT THE Synthroid-to-Armour conversion charts are VERY inaccurate. You will need more than stated.

9) Often, there are other areas that need assistance when you are treating yourself with Armour. For one, many folks need to optimize their Ferritin level (storage iron), which is low in many with hypo. Why, we don't know yet. But low Ferritin can cause very similar symptoms as being hypo, OR can cause you to have hyper-like symptoms when you try to raise the Armour.

If upon starting Armour, you have very strange symptoms, including anxiety, insomnia, shakiness, it's a strong sign that you may need adrenal support. You might need to stop the Armour and get on that support for a few weeks before starting the Armour again. There are several adrenal supplements listed in the ADRENALS file on the site--
all are used by different folks here.

10) Take a Selenium tablet with your thyroid. Helps with the T4 to T3 conversion. L-Tyrosine helps, too. Zinc and Vit. C may play a role.

11) If you are able to buy a large quantity of Armour, keep it the freezer or refrig to preserve it's potency, pouring out about 1-2 months at a time. Armour does have a long shelf life, though.

12) As a general rule, once you get up to 2-3 grains, it may be wise to hold for at least 5 weeks to allow the T4 to show it's effect, and rise on small amounts. The T3 is more immediate and potent. If you have any heart issues, the T3 can initially aggravate palps. A few folks also need to be on good adrenal support for a few weeks before they can even tolerate T3, but you usually know that a lot earlier. Others may need to optimize their Ferritin levels. Again, the bottom line is wisdom, being prudent, and patience.

Hang in there!! Natural Thyroid works!!

secretary sid????
you reading????
where did ya go girlie?

take care,
Cathy

Hi- Ijust saw this post about Armour Thyroid. I started taking Armour in 2002. I recently stopped taking it. I was feeling bad on it. I've been off of it for Over a month and now and feel good. It was good when I first started taking it. Now it seems as though I actually feel more hypothyroid on it. I have The Thyroid Diet book by Mary Shomon. It is a great book. I read it and I have more symptoms of hyperthyroid than hypo. My blood test says hypo though. My mother is on Armour thyroid too and it is soooo much better than Synthyroid is for her. I think Armour is good also but don't understand why it's not agreeing with me or vice versa anymore. Doctor says just keep on taking it. I also seem to crave sweets on it. Side effects from the meds do include aggrevation to some type of diabetes( can't remember which one). I don't have diabetes though. Just confused about all of it. For now though I feel better without it.

hi rdhdgrl1,

well I'm glad to hear that you are feeling good - whatever is going on.

what made you go on Armour in the first place? because of symptoms? or your bloodwork? did they simply run the TSH and/or T3 Uptake, or did they run the Free T3, Free T4 and antibodies tests also?

It is my understanding that Hashi's can fluctuate between hyper and hypo symptoms - but there is a lot that I don't know about that.

My first thought if you were not feeling good on Armour was that you probably needed more of it. Just bec you start at one dose, or find the dosage you need, doesn't mean it can't change and you might need more. What puzzles me tho is that you feel better off of it. That is very puzzling to me. I wonder too if you might not have some adrenal problems ???

What about your hypo symptoms? how is that going? notice any being off the Armour?

I would like to suggest something to you that might help you. You might want to join a yahoo group at http://*************.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormones/

the people there are great and wise and very helpful, and they may be able to help you figure out what is going on.

take care,
Cathy

Hey Cathy,
Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner...I only have this site on my work computer and I was off Tues, Wed. & Thursday of this week. Nice small vacation away from work.
I would definitely talk to my doctor before stopping the Prozac.
I just can't believe how good I'm feeling since I've started on the Armour Thyroid. I do have the book The Thyroid Diet and I've been reading it every day.
My son and I both have vitiligo. My son's just started showing up two years ago. I'm completely white now....no spots at all. I have to be very careful when I go out in the sun. I use the highest SPF sunblock available to keep from getting sun poisioning. I had a bad case of sun poisioning a couple of years ago and had to have shots, take pills and put cream on my arms until it cleared up.
Did I tell you that the sonogram I had on my thyroid shows I have a cyst on it? I go back to the endocrinologist in August for another sonogram.

I get choked easily when I eat anything so I have to be very careful. I have a very difficult time swallowing too. My throat always feels tight like there is something stuck in it. I guess it's because my thyroid is enlarged. I've also been tested for sleep apnea but I don't think the test was very accurate because I had a difficult time going to sleep. I didn't get much sleep at all during the test....they said they needed at least 7 good hours sleep. I had about 4 hours of restless sleep.
I'm hoping all of these things get better the longer I'm on the Armour.

It's time to go home so I'll check back tomorrow....
Sid

Hey Sid - I know we are talking by email now but just wanted to say that I am so very glad you are feeling good you are feeling on Armour Thyroid! Like I said above, that is what I am hearing over and over and over again. :-)

You probably know this, but sleep problems are usually a symptom of a thyroid problem. Like you mentione, hopefully your sleep problems will get better the longer you are on Armour and on the right dosage. Hopefully everything will get better!!!!

hugs,
Cathy

Hey Cathy,
My sleep has been much better. I'm getting a full nights sleep now. I used to wake up about 5 or 6 times throughout the night. I don't know if it was because of the "apnea" or if I just couldn't sleep.
My son does the same thing. He doesn't get much sleep at all. He and I are like two peas in a pod! I'm anxious to find out if he has Hashimoto's too.
I've got this website on my home computer now so I can check it at work and at home.
I just got a phone call so I need to go.
Sid