I need some help with substitutes. How do I substitute vanilla bean for vanilla? How much for how much?

Also, how can I substitute for Wine Vinegar? I can use regular vinegar but I don't think it will have the right taste. Do I need to add some wine? How much?

Thanks so much.

wine vinegar has points? i would be inclined to use the real thing because vinegar alone tends to be low in calories....you may want to check on the side of the bottle that way.....i have no idea how to substitute it....maybe cider vinegar?
do you mean vanilla for vanilla extract? you can make your own, basically just add vanilla beans to brandy or some other drinkable alcohol. i think the small amount used in baking wouldn't add too many points, because i think most of the alcohol is burned off during baking. you can also put vanilla beans into sugar for vanilla sugar....it's pretty yummy.

andrea

Hi,

The answer to your vanilla bean question partly depends on what you're making. If it's a cooked custard-type dessert or ice cream you split the bean and use the tip of a paring knife to scrape the tiny seeds into the custard mix. Heat it until there are tiny bubbles around the edges, turn off the heat, cover it and let it steep for about ten minutes. This infuses the vanilla flavor into the milky custard.

If you're using it in a batter, like a cake batter or other type of dish, there are two ways you can use it. The first is to make vanilla sugar. Push an empty pod (use the seeds in another dish) into the sugar. Leave it there. It will infuse the sugar with vanilla flavor and you just substitute it for unflavored sugar. Or you can scrape the seeds into the batter. Let it sit for a while to enhance the flavor before you bake it. If you're making a dessert waffle or other batter that uses baking soda, wait until right before you're ready to bake it before you add the baking soda. However, I would use vanilla extract in these recipes.

Also, I wouldn't bother trying to make my own extract. I'd go ahead and purchase the extract. I'd save the vanilla beans for ice creams, frozen yogurts, custards, dessert sauces, and other dishes where it makes the most difference in flavor. The reason is that vanilla extract, though expensive, is not nearly as expensive as vanilla beans and a really good extract adds as much flavor as the beans in most recipes. I've found that vanilla beans that are not split keep pretty much indefinitely. I used one the other day that had been on my shelf for a couple of years and it was fine.

Regarding the wine vinegar. Wine vinegar is made using wine and a starter called a "mother". I don't know the exact process involved, but the difference between the expensive and inexpensive wine vinegars is the quality of the wine they used to make the vinegar. You can substitute one vinegar for another, in equal amounts, but the flavor will be affected. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes a substitution makes a second, good recipe for you to use. I keep a variety of vinegars in my refrigerator (they keep better cold) and use them plain instead of salad dressing. I especially like champagne vinegar, raspberry-champange vinegar, and, of course, balsamic vinegar for salads.

Vanilla extract, vanilla beans, and all vinegars do not add points to a recipe. They are considered free condiments.

Have fun experimenting.

Lin

This is some very good information!

On behalf of the orginial topic starter, I'm going to clarify that her reason for wanting substitutions for wine vinegar and vanilla is that she was unable to find these products specially marked Kosher for Passover this year. It's not a point-saving maneuver.

Well my last post on this topic seems to have vanished into the mists so this is a repeat.

Bumby is correct. Red wine vinegar and vanilla have 0 points. I'm looking for substitutions to allow me to cook items for Passover and still stay in Program.

Lin: I'm using the vanilla in an Orange-Almond Cake (I posted it under Desserts). I need 1/2 tsp of vanilla and the recipe has 2/3 cup of Sugar. How much of the vanilla bean pod do I put in the sugar to achieve this? Also, how long do I need to put it in the sugar?

For the method using the vanilla beans, how much do I use in the batter for the same recipe?

Is one method preferable to the other in taste?

On the wine vinegar, I have normal vinegar but I can't get wine vinegar. Should I add a little wine to enhance the regular vinegar taste? I don't want to enhance the points value since I'm making a high enough point meal already. Any idea how much wine I'd add? Here is the recipe I'm making.

* Exported from MasterCook *

Spicy Grilled Eggplant

Recipe By : Vegetarian (Williams Sonoma)
Serving Size : 6 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : 1 Point Passover
Side Dish Vegetables
Vegetarian

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
2 Lb Eggplant
2 Tbsp Olive Oil
3 Cloves Garlic -- Minced
1 Tbsp Red Wine Vinegar
1/4 Tsp Red Pepper Flakes
2 Tbsp Parsley -- Chopped

Prepare a fire in a charcole grill. Alternatively, preheat oven to 400
degrees and spray a baking sheet.

Cut the eggplants crosswise into slices 1/4 inch thick. Place the slices
in a colander and salt them liberally to draw out the moisture with paper
towels. If you use asian eggplant there is no need to salt them.

Brush the eggplant slices with half the oil and spray with cooking spray.
Season to taste with salt and pepper.

When the fire is ready, place the eggplant slices on the grill rack and
grill, turning occasionally, until tender and golden, 10-12 minutes. If
using oven, arrange on cookie sheet in a single layer. Bake on the top
rack, turning occasionally, about 15 minutes until golden on both sides.

Meanwhile, in a small bowl, stir together the garlic and the other half of
the oil and the vinegar.

Place the eggplant on a serving platter and drizzle with the garlic oil.
Sprinkle with red pepper flakes and parsley.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

NOTES : was 6 tbl oil with no cooking spray


Thanks for all the help folks.

Hi,

For the vanilla sugar: Split the bean pod to get maximum flavor. I don't know how long it will take because I don't know how strong a vanilla flavor you're looking for. 24 hours, though, is the minimum I'd leave it.

If you use the vanilla bean in the batter, I think I'd use half of the vanilla bean pod. Again, split it and scrape out the seeds into the batter. You will have tiny black specks in your batter, but they do taste good! The seeds will give you a stronger vanilla flavor, but you can adjust the flavor when using the sugar by combining some vanilla sugar with some regular sugar. The only way to know how much is to taste it because there are no real rules about how much flavor the sugar will soak up.

Other suggestions: You can omit the vanilla. You can emphasize the almond flavor by using 1/4 teaspoon of almond extract, if that's available. Or you can emphasize the orange flavor by adding a teaspoon of grated orange zest. You could increase the amount of orange juice by 1/2 teaspoon, if you want to keep the proportions of dry to wet ingredients exactly the same.

Re: the wine vinegar.Your recipe looks yummy! It looks like the vinegar and oil is use to make a simple vinaigrette to pour over the grilled eggplant. The purpose of using vinegar is that the acid contrasts with the oil and it creates an emulsion. Wine isn't acidic enough to give it the right flavor nor will your vinaigrette emulsify properly. Also, since you're not cooking the wine, it will add points, but the amount per serving would be negligible.

Wine isn't what I'd substitute for the wine vinegar. My first choice of substitutions would be lemon juice. It's often used in vinaigrettes in place of vinegars. Lemon juice will preserve the Mediterranean flavor of this dish without adding any points. It has the correct acid content and it wil emulsify the dressing properly.

Your notes indicate that you changed the amount of oil and substituted cooking spray. You can get the fat (and points) even lower than what you've already accomplished. After you've drained the eggplant and wiped the salt off with a paper towel, put it in a bowl. Add 1 teaspoon of olive oil and toss it with the eggplant until the slices are evenly coated. If your grill doesn't have a nonstick surface, spray the grill, not the eggplant, with cooking spray. Or use a paper towel and very lightly coat the grill with olive oil.

Also, if you've decreased the amount of oil in the dressing, you have to decrease the amount of vinegar. Or, in my substitution, lemon juice. Use 1 teaspoon vinegar or lemon juice for 1 tablespoon of oil. (The standard proportion for a vinaigrette is 3 parts oil to 1 part acid.) If you can find garlic flavored oil that's OK to use for Passover, it's a lot easier than using the minced garlic. I'd probably use a garlic press to juice the garlic, rather than mincing it, though, because a lot of people I know don't like bits of raw garlic. (Of course, you could also roast the garlic just until it's soft and slightly brown, mash it, and add it to the dressing, if you want. It's a slightly different, sweeter flavor. Yummy.)

You can decrease the fat even further if you decrease the amount of dressing that you add to the dish. You can get the same flavor if you toss 1 teaspoon of dressing with the cooked eggplant, rather than drizzling it over the top. Plus, you can control the amount of fat per serving better if you coat the slices evenly.

One other way to get the fat/point count even lower is to use the dressing as a marinade. Then spray the grill with vegetable spray and grill. (If you can find it, you can preserve the olive oil flavor by using olive oil spray. Or get a spray bottle that's made for this purpose and spray your own oil. That's more economical and better for the environment because it's a pump not chemically propelled.) You'll get all of the flavors in both the grilled eggplant and the marinade and use less fat in the whole dish. (To find out how much fat is left in the grilled eggplant, just measure the amount of marinade left in the dish, subtract it from the total you made, and figure out the points for the difference.)

Note: My suggestion to use 1 teaspoon of oil in the grilling and 1 teaspoon of dressing for serving is a place to start. That's the amount I always start with for recipes that serve up to 8 people. I add more oil in 1/2 teaspoon quantities, if it seems necessary. But I rarely do seem to need more in this type of recipe. When I change a recipe to lower the fat content, I usually aim for a maximum of 1/2-1 t. of fat per serving. Many recipes can be made with smaller amounts of fat, but I rarely go no fat.

I hope there are some usable suggestions in this ramble. I hope your Passover meal is terrific! Good luck!

Lin

Thank you Lin.

My vanilla sugar is making itself (luckily I'm not making that one till Sunday).

The suggestions on the Eggplant sound great. Lemon I have. Feel free to use the recipe for your own usage. I'll report back on the results when I've finished my exhaustion from feeding 21 people!


And thanks again to everyone for helping with this stuff. I'm really greatful and I bet lots of others didn't know these things but wondered.

Happy Passover and Easter to all who celebrate these.

Alyson

I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but why can't wine vinegar and vanilla be used during passover? Is it cuz the wine is fermented? But how does vanilla fit?
Thanks,
Andrea

Always good to ask questions.

I'm no expert on these things but I understand the basic problem. In this case the vanilla and the wine vinegar have the same challenge. It's not that either of these could not be eated for Passover. Indeed, if you could get Kosher for Passover vanilla and wine vinegar, that would be fine. At least some of the folks on this board have access to those. Unfortunately out here in the "boonies" (Sillicon Valley), we have trouble importing certain things. When it comes to Passover foods, we are still treated as the "wild west. These two didn't make it this year.

The reason you need Kosher for Passover vanilla and red wine vinegar is that both have alcohol in them. Alcohol is one of those foods that must be explicitly Kashered (made Kosher) for Passover. So unlike, say carrots, you need to find the Passover variety or come up with a substitute. That's why my Passover recipes have these ingredients in them.

okay...that makes sense....
silicon valley isn't that boonies..... :-)
i live in los gatos, but i know what you mean in trying to find certain kosher foods....my mom makes some wonderful cakes using some random kosher ingredients, which can be a pain to find.

andrea

Hi,

Alyson, you're most welcome. I'll look forward to hearing the results after your Passover dinner. I wish I had known that the alcohol was the problem. I would have suggested vanilla powder. You use it like extract, but mix it with the dry ingredients instead of the wet.

For you Silicon Valley folks--Silicon Valley is definitely not the boonies! Try Salinas! We recently moved there and I'm exploring food sites to try to order some of my favorite ingredients that are not available at the major supermarkets. I miss Cosentino's. I did a price comparison between Cosentino's, Albertson's, and Safeway and for food items only, Cosentino's is cheaper. Surprised me, but it's something you ladies who live near there ought to check out.



Have a great Passover and a Happy Easter.

Lin

Lots of follow up comments. Bottom line, the Seder food was a hit. The dessert didn't even make it beyond the Seders. Despite some last minute additions (I ended up serving 25 in the end over 2 days including one other WW) everything worked fine. Thanks to all that helped make the food so wonderful. The compliments I received need to be shared with you.

Trixiepup, I live one town over from you. I probably represent you (I'm an elected in my copious spare microsecond). Small world. As you know, while Silicon Valley isn't the boonies on culture, restaurants, jobs, and most other things, the distributors with Kosher for Passover runs still treat it as such. Thank goodness for Molly Stone's. That store has been known to send a specially rented truck to Colorado to pick up Passover Coke (at a loss to them!) just because their customers want it.

Lin S, I hadn't realized Cosentinos was cheaper. Interesting. I now live nearest to a Nob Hill. It's pretty much on par with Safeway and Albertsons. Plus they give me discounts without requiring me to relinquish privacy. They also go out of their way to listen to their customers. Find that in a Safeway or Albertsons.

I made the eggplant with the lemon and it was fantastic. You don't need the oil on the eggplant at all. The cooking spray on each side was quite sufficient. The only oil actually needed is in the vinegarette. I'm going to make this recipe year round. Yum. Big Winner. Lots of rave reviews. Plus only a point. How can you loose? I've been rationing leftovers all week.

Thanks again to all. Would folks like the other recipes I made or should I wait till next year to post them?

Best,
Alyson

Hi,

Alyson, I've been commuting to SJ for the past two weeks and haven't been able to check in sooner to see how your food turned out. I'm really glad my suggestions helped and your guests and you liked it.

Lin S