I follow a vegan eating plan and I was just on a message board where people do a certain type of vegan diet (pretty much low fat and sticking with whole foods). One of the people who has been very successful on the plan is constantly getting on his soap box and posting long messages praising the plan. Fine. I get that.

But today he posted this long post about how people are always trying to reinvent the plan because "they think they know better" and that they just need to follow the rules strictly and not veer from them one inch, using his own experience as an example.

Now I respect the guy for having stuck with the plan for many years and having gotten rid of many of his serious health issues with it. But it really burned me up to hear this "diet police" approach to eating. Of course he got a lot of praise for it and one person agreed and said, "as the doctor [who created the plan] is always saying, 'it's the food'."

I've been doing some work on myself because I really want to start healing from my binge eating disorder in 2015 and the one thing that I've realized is IT'S NOT THE FOOD. For me, what I eat on a daily basis (as long as it's relatively healthy) is not the issue - it's what I eat when I am stressed, angry, depressed, etc., that is the problem.

I know that message board is not specifically for people with emotional eating or binge eating problems, but to hear it tossed aside like "oh, you're just not eating according to the plan to the letter, that's why you keep binging" is really BS to me. There are many people who have issues with food that go beyond just the food and to cast that aside is to turn a blind eye to the fact that food is a much more complex issue for people. It's not a matter of whether you are eating a bean soup or chicken sandwich for dinner, whether you add oil to your salad or not. It's about much more complex issues than that.

How do you feel about it? Do you think that if you could find the perfect eating plan for you or an eating plan that science shows is foolproof in health, your issues with food would disappear?

Djuna

Personally, I feel that guy on his soapbox can go suck on a lemon.

I feel binge eating is a complex issue that has many different facets -- not all of them the same for every person -- and I feel that people are incredibly wondrous, complex creatures living in a complex, challenging, ever-changing world; and I feel that recovery from binge-eating is a super-duper complex, extremely challenging task that -- for many, many, people -- will require more than just following any one particular eating plan.

I can only speak to specifics for myself. It's not JUST the food, and it's not JUST me, and it's not JUST how I handle the world, and it's not JUST about my interior landscape, and it's not JUST about habits, and it's not JUST about my history, and it's not JUST about pleasure-seeking, and it's not JUST about a few dozen other internal and external things. It's alot of those things in different amounts at different times. I wish it were as easy as "just eat 1. 2. 3." (or "don't eat 4. 5. 6.") and you'll be fine. For me that is not the case.

Listen to what your gut is telling you, it knows you best. I think you have set yourself a very worthy goal for 2015. To start healing your binge eating disorder! What a wonderful thing to do for yourself!

Different things work for different people. For some folks, an extremely strict plan that you must follow to the letter is a useful tool for controlling bingeing. Some folks feel that they need an externally imposed set of rules, that left to their own devices they will make bad choices, or not know what kind of choices to make. Just have a look at the IP and Atkins boards right here on 3FC and you will see a lot of people taking a similar attitude: Those plans claim to be based upon rather finely-calibrated approaches, and some folks follow them to the letter with the belief that any deviation could have disastrous consequences.

I do hear what you are saying - I find it frustrating too when people are too dogmatic or proselytic about their approach, without acknowledging that people are overweight for different reasons and respond differently to various strategies and tactics for getting control over their eating. And, people who don't struggle with bingeing in particular sometimes have a hard time understanding it, leading to suggestions like "well just don't eat when you are not hungry" that are singularly unhelpful to people for whom the urge to eat is completely decoupled from hunger.

And even within the subgroup of people who do struggle with bingeing, different approaches work for different people. Myself, for example, I am a little sick of navel-gazing and self-examination, which is something I do altogether too well. I have found that for me, exercise of discipline works better than any amount of examining the psychological factors that trigger a binge. If I feel the urge to binge, I work to not permit myself to to enter situations in which bingeing is possible. I exert conscious effort to make choices that prevent bingeing - i.e., if I choose not to buy a sack of candy, I cannot eat an entire sack of candy in one sitting, no matter how emotionally driven to do so I may feel. And really it's not far from that to an understanding of why sticking to an extremely prescriptive plan might be effective for a certain sort of person.

So, to answer your specific question, the eating plan that has worked for me is not one that has made my issues with food disappear, and I don't think there is such a plan. Having said that, a certain application of mind and will and discipline has allowed me to lose a great deal of weight despite my issues with food. So I have some sympathy for the position that applying external control to your actions can help you overcome eating problems without requiring you to sort yourself out emotionally first.

The best you can do is perform your own science experiments on your own body and mind, figure out what approach works for you, and share what you've learned with people who are interested in hearing about it.

Thank you for the responses. And Mrs. Snark, if I could "like" your post, I would .

I do agree that some kind of healthy eating plan is necessary for any binge eater. I'm beginning to find out that an eating plan that has some rules but also allows flexibility and includes certain things that I know work for me is the one that I stick to the closest. But I just can't see how ONLY an eating plan will do the trick. I know that many people in these boards do find a strict eating plan helpful, but I think there is a difference between someone who binges occasionally and one who has an eating disorder. Not everyone who eats off plan is a binger and not every person who is overweight or obese has an eating disorder or uses food as a way of coping with emotions (as I do). I tend to think that people who do not have an eating disorder to some degree (whether diagnosed and in therapy or not) are the ones for whom a strict eating plan and little personal examination as to why they eat off plan works. Everyone, I think to some degree, make commitments to eat in a certain way and go off plan occasionally but not to the degree where it is so disruptive in their lives, as it is to me.

I guess maybe this guy was one of those people whose weight gain came from other things (like a love of fatty foods or big portions) and he did not have an eating disorder or was an emotional eater which is why, for him, following a strict eating plan to the letter worked well for him. As for me, I have tried this for years and it has failed miserably. I am the kind of person who has to have some kind of order and discipline or I tend to get very anxious and confused (won't go into the details of why this is but it has to do with childhood emotional abuse), so while a menu plan each week works for me, I also recognize that it is not enough and that I need to do the deeper work to figure out why I break my plan with binging episodes and find alternatives to dealing with those reasons.

Djuna

I love discussions like this, in which the participants acknowledge the trials and frustrations of other people. I've been on 3FC for a long time and there are many kinds of dieters here, some who are just starting out, some who are stuck in unending cycles of lose/gain/lose/gain, and some who have been through all that and back and then managed to figure things out for themselves.

There are a great deal of people who succeed on diets such as the man you're talking about. And if there were prizes for best dieter in the world then maybe he could win that prize. But there are no prizes, only the rewards we have when following a plan that is good for our overall health that meets not only our physical needs, but our mental and emotional ones. I have no interest in succeeding in a diet, I only wish to live a healthy life - that's my bottom line. I don't want to be zealous about any kind of diet scripture, I just want to get through my day to day feeling good about myself, enjoy the food I eat, and be able to run around as needed. That means eating nutritious food, exercising and not worrying about disease.

All these successful people who have posted all have a few things in common. One, they gone through the paces and did diets that failed but learned something from each one about themselves. Two, they know and understand their own strengths and weaknesses and structure their healthy eating around that. Three, they celebrate the methods others use to get and stay healthy without judgment.

But we get plenty of soap boxy people here too, ones that can't help themselves but proclaim that everyone is going to die because they eat pasta or whatever. It's not always easy to feel compassion for such people however I do try to always remember that the rigidity of their meal plans is so specific and stressful that they have to keep up their inner cheerleading squad at all times to get through it. It's tough to deny yourself food that you wish you could eat, so you have to get a little zealous about it to keep it up. It's understandable. I have a hard time understanding how someone can be 100-200lbs overweight without an eating disorder but if simply changing the food they eat fixes all that then I'm super stoked about it. I wish it was that simple for me.

Like you, I know what works for me. I've suffered with my eating disorder long enough to know that changing what I eat does not change why I want to eat. And I've spent long enough in therapy that I'm sick to death of my inner self. That's why intuitive eating appealed to me, it's given me real strategies on how to change my thought patterns around food, and to learn how to address my emotional and physical needs. It's taught me how to deal with myself rather than turn to food. It's helped me neutralize my relationship with food and learn how to love myself no matter what I weigh. It doesn't mean that I don't have nutritional goals, I do and I'm eating healthier now than I ever did before, but calming the emotional charge of food is very freeing. No more binges.

Wannabeskinny, thank you for the response. I don't begrudge people who have succeeded in their weight loss and healthy eating through a specific (and quite rigid, as the one this guy was following is) diet. I agree that finding the healthiest eating plan is about knowing what works for you and what doesn't work for you (for me, it also means not following the same destructive patterns, which is harder for me - the old saying "foolishness means doing the same thing over and over again even if it doesn't work" applies to me!) That's what I'm struggling with right now.

You mention intuitive eating. I actually downloaded the "Intuitive Eating" Kindle book and am reading it right now. I read it some time ago and liked it and even tried some of the suggestions for a while but I don't think I really believed that it could help so my efforts faded. But this time, it's making a lot of sense and I'm reading it slowly and making notes on what I read, so I'm taking it much more seriously.

Djuna

Welcome to IE djunamod, I hope it suits you as well as it suits me. It's not without guidelines but it's great not to have arbitrary rules about what to eat hanging over you all the time. It's a tough road and IE involves much more than just eating and food. People without ED can't seem to understand how much is involved when using food to cope with life's challenging situations. Diets are particularly harmful to people like us because food is out major coping mechanism. Take it away and we have nothing. I wasn't able to start eating healthier until I developed new coping mechanisms and that's not an easy thing to do.

Maybe go to an eating disorder forum if the main concern is understanding about your binge issues. There will be vegans there.

Keep in mind that being vegan is not a diet plan. I am way more knowledgeable about eating and nutrition than I should be, so if you want to send me a pm with your diet or post it here, I would be more than happy to give you feedback.

Hi Jen,
I agree with you that veganism is not a diet plan per se. But the problem is that I was using it as a diet plan. I was using it as a way to try and maintain a weight loss I had back in 2007. I convinced myself that I started a vegan diet for health reasons and although I have learned a lot more about other reasons to go vegan, I cannot say that I fully embrace them right now. That's not to say that I won't in the future. But I have too many issues with dieting and binging right now to be able to see a vegan eating style for what it is - something that is not a diet but more complex and embraces many aspects.

I do believe that one day, when I heal from my binge eating issues, I will be able to go back to a vegan diet without seeing it as a DIET and I will become vegan for the right reasons.

Djuna

I couldn't agree more that diets don't work and strict rules make things worse. I mean, think about it. If even 1 of these diets really worked long term, there would be no fat people. Berating ones self for food choices only exacerbates the situation. I am hoping I will find peace in IE.

Jen FZ, have you ever been more than 10 lbs overweight? I ask because healthy nutrition for losing many lbs is quite different from losing 10.

Dieting is unhealthy. Not because of the food but because of how it sets one up to deal with food. Diets make food the enemy. Diets take away a person's trust in themselves. Diets don't provoke someone to listen to their own bodies. One cannot arrive at good health through unhealthy means.

Loved your post, Carter. I hope that writing is part of your career or avocation.

<< Those plans claim to be based upon rather finely-calibrated approaches, and some folks follow them to the letter with the belief that any deviation could have disastrous consequences.>>

I understand the psychological need to adhere to a rigid plan, even though it's not my own preferred M.O. What drives me a bit nutso is when people claim that a diet plan won't WORK if you make trivial modifications (e.g., substitutions that don't impact total calories). That's just silly, IMO.

F.