I really struggled with the title of this thread, because it's hard to convey in a few words what I'm trying to say.

One thing about dieting (not about being overweight, but about DIETING specifically) that always tortured me was my envy of others who weren't on a diet. It didn't make any difference if they were overweight, thin, or anything in between. If they weren't on a diet and I was, I was jealous. Because I knew they weren't counting calories, carbs, whatever - and I was. And I just hated everything about it.

It was especially painful whenever I'd go out to eat with a group of friends. If I was on a diet, I'd have to plan out my meal beforehand using the nutritional guide for that establishment or ballparking the calorie count using their menu if there was no nutritional guide available. While everyone else was delightfully perusing the menu deciding "what sounds good?" "anyone want an appetizer?" "I think I'm going to have a Margarita!" I'm agonizing over the fact that I can't participate in this simple pleasure - eating what appeals to me at that very moment.

No, I had to eat something GOOD FOR ME. Something LOW IN CALORIES so I could stay within my range for the day (regardless of how hungry - or not - I was). All that nonsense that you always read from the diet gurus who tell you to "concentrate on what you're trying to accomplish" and "think of how good you'll look when you lose all that weight" never helped me. Not one single bit. Because all I could think about was "Am I going to have to do this for the rest of my flipping LIFE?" And "I want to be able to eat like everyone else is eating."

Now I do.

Dining out is one of my guilty pleasures, and I refuse to let it be a battleground any longer.

And no more jealousy! It's so freeing to no longer experience that. It made the torture of any diet even more intense. No matter how much weight I lost, I never found any pleasure in saying "it was all worth it." Because in the end, it wasn't.

And inevitably, I'd gain every last pound back. And more.

I've actually never been that good at being that good when eating out. More likely I would just not go which is worse the isolation thing.

But I hear you and the joy of ordering what you want is a joy! I was with a friend who retired last weekend and the day after the dinner she took a number of us out for dinner. I was totally thinking IE and ordered the salad I wanted, the ravioli I wanted, a lovely glass of wine. I ate most of the salad and maybe 1/3 of the ravioli and joyfully had a lemon tart and cappuccino for dessert ate most of it. Wasn't a bit too full and felt fabulous.

No wonder we get cranky picking out what's good for you or on plan.

And weren't you just so sad and frustrated that you did that? It's something I don't think I've ever done; I love the socialization of a meal with friends in a restaurant, and even though I had to white-knuckle it through some of them, I still went. I guess it's because I knew that if I turned down the invitation in order to stay on my diet, it was a sure bet I'd eat off-plan anyway. I was more likely to stay closer to plan if I went than if I stayed home.

Yes I always felt it was a waste. The IE way is SO much better!

This was me yesterday, (I am currently doing IF but am seriously considering IE, currently researching the IE WOE) I went to lunch with my coworker yesterday but it was outside of my eating window. So I went along for socialization and watched them devour there delicious looking/smelling meals while I sat there and hated them the whole time they were eating, thinking I sure wish I could eat whenever and whatever I wanted and not care, sigh.

I've always envied people for whom things came easily. Foodwise especially. This is probably the number one reason why I turned to IE, not because I'm jealous especially but because I realized that they know a secret that I don't! This ties in a lot with the thread I started about observing normal eaters, dieters get so aggravated when you throw around the word "normal" and so the thread was a disaster.

But truly, it has been so confusing watching other people around me proclaim hunger, eat pizza and drink wine and indulge in their favorite foods and be thin. How can I not envy that? Their life seems so simple and mine seems so unfair. And living with guilt is like a disease, I was always guilty over food. I only felt good about myself based on how many calories were in my meal and how many carbs I avoided. I was a lunatic and I wanted a little bit of sanity that's all.

A long long time ago, long before I even understood IE I started a thread about copying skinny people's behavior. I was considering leeching on to my best friend and asking her if I could shadow her eating habits. I was seriously considering doing this, just eat what she eats, do what she does and see if I could learn to be normal by just pretending to be. If that's not desperation then I don't know what is. I didn't go through with it, I didn't want to be awkward but in my mind I thought if I could just live my day as a thin person I could become one... fake it till you make it.

So you can call it envy but in my mind it's more of an admiration thing. I know that if I can normalize my behavior internally, and latch on to the basic primal instincts of hunger and satiety that I will be just fine, just like those normal thin people.

ShaMac, I feel your pain!

It's interesting you mention IF; even though I don't practice IF, my eating pattern seems to fall that way most days. I generally eat something late morning (around 10 a.m.) and then a pretty big meal between 4-5. I try not to eat past that last meal, but I will eat if I am truly hungry.

Let me ask you this - were you hungry when you went to lunch, or were you just wanting to eat because it smelled so good? If I am really not hungry I have no problem not eating when others are eating, but if I am truly hungry then it is torture, something I will no longer allow myself to endure.

The only "restriction" - if you want to call it that - with IE is that you must be hungry when you eat. It really helps you to determine when your body is telling you to fuel itself & works to eliminate emotional eating. For example, if you had just had a satisfying meal before you went with your co-workers, then your desire to eat would have have been more emotionally driven rather than hunger driven.

Notice that I used the word satisfying rather than filling. That was deliberate. To truly satisfy hunger you must eat something you really WANT to eat as opposed to what you believe you SHOULD eat. Because if you do, you will derive much more pleasure and satisfaction from the meal and be less likely to go looking for something else to eat. And the key is to eliminate guilt from your eating, period.

If you haven't already done so, be sure to google OVERFED HEAD PDF and the link to the free book The Overfed Head should appear first. You can't print it out but you can read it online. I always send people to that book before they read anything else about IE. It's an easy read and gives you the basics on IE from someone who has walked the walk and talked the talk.

Personally, I do feel slight pangs of unhappiness when I see people working out without dieting or vise versa because doing both this winter has been difficult, but at the same time, it fades right away because I like the results that I got. Most people that I'd be happy to look like essentially do the same thing as me, or just have a passion for exercise and less of an interest in eating a ton. Plus, if I was jealous of that (naturally "thin body" appetite" its only a glimpse of their lives. I don't know what they may or may not be dealing with.

So then I always think "wait a minute, look at everything else. Look at the results, its irrational to be jealous - since there's no magic to it. Most of us don't have magic metabolisms - our results are all normal results of whatever we do." To me, there are ups and downs to both If I didn't watch what I eat or work out, id be easier to be bigger than I want to be, so since I am choosing to be at a cal deficit while working out, the pros of that (for me) outweigh the cons."

Indeed. I definitely do admire those people who can recognize and follow proper hunger cues (whether consciously or unconsciously) and I want to emulate their behavior. But I sadly spent a lot of time and energy being envious of them as well, and now I know it serves no purpose. I have to admit it's a great feeling to be able to sit down in a restaurant with a group of friends and/or family and be able to pick from the menu the meal that is most appealing to me at that moment - with no guilt for eating it and no regret afterward.

Southeren I typically have a 6hour eating window, which falls somewhere between 3pm to 9pm so I was very hungry but doing IF I have learned to ignore hunger. Somedays are better than others. Also I have download "Overfed Head" just yesterday morning.