This post comes as a result of another thread, including some comments I really appreciated from Linden (I don't know how to cross reference posts but read "Anxious about vacation")

I love this forum - I've learned so much about IP, food suggestions, recipes etc. - there is so much support and advice that is invaluable.

HOWEVER - I think it's important to be clear that the plan does not allow "cheats" (hate that word) until phase 4. We all make choices about how we approach our weight loss but you're not OP if you eat foods not on the list. Mostly OP is off plan. Small cheats and breaks are off plan.

I love the support on this site but the unconditional support for those planning to deviate from the plan for a special event or a holiday in my opinion does far more harm than good. I'm not suggesting we beat up those who slip - support getting back on track is important, but a more candid discussion like Linden led about the dangers of "planned cheats" or "phasing off for holidays" would prevent a lot of regrets.

The reality is that for many of us, if we had learned not to indulge we wouldn't be here.

I also agree with the comments that when people cheat it hurts the program. Stay on plan (which in my opinion can include carefully chosen non IP alternatives), lose weight. If you don't follow the rules YMMV.

I hope new people visiting this forum can sort through advice etc and not get pulled into the "I cheated and still lost" logic. It does happen, it's just harder.

I hope I don't offend anyone, it's really not my intent. I am so supportive of this plan - the actual IP plan before it's adapted to individual interpretation

Good points which are important. Small cheats can lead to bigger cheats or even giving up which is horrible since staying on program works so brilliantly.

However, its important to note that if a dieter is working with a COMPETENT coach, there are deviations which are allowed specific to that individuals need.

For example, before starting Ideal Protein, I told my coach I was planning to go to Italy with my wife 1.5 months later and asked if I should wait to start. We did a planned "Off Program" for that week, and she said I would enjoy the vacation more if I was able to lose weight before going (she was right!), to try to eat foods in portions that are in line with the diet, but also to enjoy myself. I didnt overindulge, ate smart, and was back to losing within 3 days of returning.

That solution was right for me. I would have regretted trying to stay completely on program in that situation and also learned more about how I actually have quite a bit of power in making proper food choices which are still healthy without resorting to past bad habits.

Note that up until that point, I had many work travels, parties, events, etc where I was 100% on program because the cheating wasnt an option.

Also, I think its very odd for some clinics to completely not allow Restricted Items, when almost all ready to eat items (other than shakes) are restricted. I feel there should be a balance between looking to get the best results and also looking at the needs of each dieter. Thats why they train the coaches and why we have individual meetings with them.

There are also some coaches who are following IP guidelines from 1+ years ago and have not yet seen new guidelines (for example, my coach says they did a study between groups who had restricted and those who did not the first 2 months and there was no difference in weight loss (for those who were 100% on program) so restricted should now be available from day 1 (unless the coach feels a certain dieter has a reason not to have them right away).

Like I said... I totally agree that "little cheats" will build up and hurt your own ability to stay on the program in the future. And one planned cheat can escalate into many because there is always a special occasion. But I still feel that if you have a good coach, you work out details with them.

For what its worth.

FinnSteven you're absolutely right - I should have thought of that - follow what your coach says (assuming they know what they're talking about ) first and foremost. They know their patient, the plan, and the circumstances.

A concern for me is when people start cutting back and coaches who do not allow resticted items or limit veggies from the unresticted ones. This slows wight loss just as much as a cheat.
When followed as outlined on the protocol sheets the plan is very low cal, low fat and low carb. Cutting that back even farther is counter productive.

I think most people take the "cheat" talk with a grain of salt. It usually results in a no loss period but more dangerous still is it can start the carb cravings up again. The plan is too expensive to go down that road.
But many people want to speed up the loss and it seems logical (even to some coaches !!??) to cut back further. I think this would result in quick regains once the person goes on to maintain.

I do not see anything wrong with phasing off for plans that would make it difficult to follow phase 1 or 2 of IP. Better to be on phase 4 with options than ending up stuck and eating off plan during phase 1.

I Am on phase 3 right now and plan to be maintaining while my hubby comes home for 2 weeks. After he leaves I will go back to phase 1 till my goal is reached.

I did not do this so I could cheat and stuff my face full of "non ip foods" . Yes it will be easier to go on vacation and go out to eat, but I will be on phase 4 plan the entire time.

I know you meant not to offend, but I kinda was offended. It seemed like you were implying that people who phase out early have no intentions of staying on phase 4 plans and would just simply stuff their faces like they did pre IP.

Hey BCGirl, this is an ongoing issue, in the past I have commented about people that cheat and there was a real blow up a few months back about those comments. I try not to comment anymore, because even though people say they want advice they really don't. Some seem rather proud of cheating and that is what gets me down. How can you honestly say you are following the program if you cheat. Some of the issues arise from doing the alternate products without a coach, even though we complain about the coaches all say different things, they are all basically trained the same and they just add their thoughts on, which as professionals they should be following the rules as well and not making things into gray areas, they really do help us, and those that don't have them miss out on the valued support. At one point there was a thread about OOPs I cheated and people could go there to do their confessing. With so many threads opening on a daily basis for every single question (alot that have been answered before, again and again and can be found if they take the time to search) that thread has been long since buried.

With all the comments on cheating this is why a lot of coaches tell you to read the site but don't follow a lot of the advice without running by their coaches.

Of course there is no solution to this issue as it comes back every few months. Other then telling the people that this is a NO Cheat diet, people being people, will just tweek it to suit themselves. So some complain about not losing weight, have they truly been OP? Have they followed the 3 packets a day, 4 cups vegetables a day, their salt, oil and water? Have they had anything that wasn't on the protocol? I know a few have tried tweeking by adding a little bit of what they crave, or go half IP and half another program. They just don't get it. You are spending good money on a program that works if you follow it, if you don't it may not work. I for one can't afford to mess with this as I don't have the money to waste, and I value my health.

I guess in closing the big thing is I value my success, I value the IP Program, I value this site and all the help and support I get. I am not going to let the cheats bother me as it isn't anything I can fix, I do feel sorry for some, as it shows that they really aren't learning how to eat properly to maintain this in the long run.

Have a good day nd stay true to yourself and the program.

Just read your post and I am sorry you are offended. I see you are phasing out properly and that is great for you, keep it up. I am sure you are going to enjoy your husband while he is home and he will be impressed with how good you have done so far. I truly hope it will be easy for you to come back to phase 1 when the time comes. I have read so many people having issues restarting, and also read so many that find the second time easier. Like the whole part of this diet it depends on the individual. I plan on completing to my goal before I phase out but that is my CHOICE, if while in maintenance I gain back (right now I don't plan to but things happen) I will come back to phase 1 and start again as well.

This is a diet but everyone has to make their own choices how to work it, it may be cut and dry NO CHEATS but as for phasing out... that can be adjusted too, say you want to phase out for vacation, so if you change your goal to what you are at and phase out for the vacation, then come back and change your goal again does that make it that you aren't following the plan? I think the biggest thing is if you phase out properly you shouldn't have issues.

I have just started my second week. I have had many events to work with by taking my food or choosing a restaurant that provides food that works and can accommodate me. Last night I chose steak, mushrooms and cauliflower and broccoli, ordered a large tossed salad with no carrots. My only cheat would be if the steak was more protein than I was suppose to have.

Staff at work are supporting me because yesterday was my birthday and instead of a cupcake with a candle they gave me a tin of tuna with a candle. I enjoyed their support, effort and creativity.

Make it work and don't cheat. And choose small goals as your successes to achieve. Good luck.

I feel the same about the ones who cheat coming here and kinda throwing it your face. I for one have not cheated once. (I may not eat enough but I'm also not filling my body with things not allowed on the program.) Anyway, sometimes I feel like they are saying, "nana I lost while cheating and you barely are while being 100% commited." In my head I'm thinking, "nana, I will be able to follow this through maintenance and keep it off because I'm not striving for the end." I'm not trying to hurt feelings or step on toes but if you can't make it through the program without cheating how will you make it through life with this change? Of course I'm longing for the day I can eat cheese and fruit and maybe a slice of pizza but those foods don't make or break me. This plan has totally changed my outlook on food and there are things I can't wait to carry over with me once I phase out. I can't believe how much my outlook on social events has changed. I've made it through some major ones without a tiny cheat because it's about being there and being with peoeple, not about the food you eat while out. Diets are so much a head game. I am doing this without a coach but with many who are going through it now or have recently and I feel I'm doing ok for the most part. I'm struggling with eating enough and to some, that may be worse than cheating, but I'm recognizing it and nipping it in the bud before it gets out of hand. I don't want people to coddle me and tell me I'm doing fine. I want to know what to do to make it better. I want to know if others have been there. I want help! That is what I come here. I don't condone cheating and have on more than one occasion told people to look into other plans because this is a NO CHEAT one and I may not be a favorite because of that. The truth hurts sometimes. WE all need a little kick in the pants sometime so I would rather hear it how it is. That is what I feel this board is for. The push, the advise, the friendships, the help.......

Off my soap box now. (Sorry, having an off day!)

I have been on plan my whole IP journey and while I can understand you shouldn't encourage people to phase off just for breaks or cheats, I don't understand what is so wrong about phasing off correctly and staying within phase 4 protocol while you are on vacation.

That is what I am saying "if" you decide to phase off for vacation do it properly that way you wake up your pancreaus properly and when you are ready go back to phase 1. I said it is everyones choice they have to make, my personal thoughts and this is for me only is I want to get to my goal without messing around. Once I am there and phase off I will do it properly too to give me a chance to maintain properly. Basically what I was trying to say is so your goal is lose 50 lbs and you don't make it to 50lbs before you phase out (this is your goal WHY can't you change it) change your goal to what is attainable before you phase out and then when the time comes to come back make a new goal.

Now don't get me wrong, it is just that recently I have been thinking of phasing off before my goal, the reasons mostly are because I wasn't losing and I was gaining. My coach put me on phase 2 and I lost, but then I gained again. So my thought was maybe it is time to stop (even though in my brain I was whining to myself that I didn't hit my goal) YOU set your Goals, no one is telling you how much you HAVE to lose. I personally only picked 140 as I can't ever remember being that, who is to say that is the right weight for me... now that I am close will I be satisfied with 140... that is all I am saying... my biggest thing is Cheats, it is frustrating to see others cheat and lose and then a month later they are on the site saying I don't know why I lose so slow...

What is wrong with it, is it is not the way the plan is designed. That is why so many people warn against "planned phase offs" for "planned cheats". I think a person need only read a page or two of the thread about "having a hard time getting back on plan"- Full of horror stories about people phasing off and having a heck of a time ever getting back to 100% committment.

14 months later and 85 pounds down....size 18 to a 6....

I was a 100% type of girl for the first 5 months...100% not 99.9%, but 100%.

But I can tell you now....maintenance is like a planned cheat for the rest of your life....it is by far the hardest hardest hardest part of Ideal Protein.

There has to be strategies to deal with all the bumps in the road, because they come at maintenance....so learning modification during earlier phases might eliminate some of the regain I have witnessed from others (not myself...so far)

I have seen so many people gain the weight back because it was the mentality of 100% or nothing at all.

Not sure what the answer is....but planned cheats or time off should be reserved for threads labeled as such and they are a reality at one phase or another.

I found it very interesting I came across this thread today. I'm on day two of the program and I was initially interested in getting involved in the online community, but after seeing a lot of "Help, I can't stay on plan!" and "How do I stop Cheating?" posts I was turned off. I've been jumping around to posts that look like they might have good plan advice but the entire idea of cheating or going off program on something like Ideal Protein is a huge turn off to me. Monday with my coach I signed a contract that promised her and myself a full commitment to this protocol.

I've spent most of my life overweight and I was happy to find something that was medically driven and that actually will work. I've read so many success stories and see success in my friends lives. Getting off program or cheating is something you do on a diet, it isn't something you do when you really have made a commitment to something. You don't cheat on your husband or take a break from your marriage, and I consider this the same level of commitment that I've made to myself. I would love to see a thread started for folks to are 100% committed to that vow so us newbies could feel inspired instead of put off.

People who have committed to the program are such an inspiration and I love the stories and advice (I mean married the program, not dating or friends with benefits).

Unfortunately, I'm not much for the "sorry if this sound mean" thing. It really isn't mean, or rude, or offensive. Don't cheat on your spouse, don't cheat on yourself. It's that easy. Food is fuel.

(Note: My only exception to this would be the guy going to Italy, who's commitment to his coach was defined in the beginning. International, once in a lifetime events are a little different than my friends are coming into town for a month or it's Christmas)

You've got such a great attitude Cinammon and I have no doubt you will succeed! When you're ready you're ready. It's like a light bulb going off.
I started IP last Oct. right before Halloween, Thanksgiving, Xmas, New Years and all the holidays most folks would want to avoid while taking this program on. So did a lot of other folks on this list. I could not believe how easy it became to just say no, because the weight was dropping off, my energy levels were soaring and I was totally in the IP Zone.
Sounds like you've got great support around you which is a blessing.
Have a great journey with us!