Anybody know what they are? I have heard some rumblings about some tweaks coming out in the next few weeks. Anyone else heard anything?

Everyone who works for WW (I'm a receiptionist) signs a confidentiality agreement and we can't discuss anything until it is officially released. Anything you hear now is just guessing and not worth your time.

I would guess that something needs to be done about the free fruit, say a limit on the number of servings per day rather than a recommendation of "moderation". Fruit is too high in calories and fructose to be eaten freely, especially by a group of people who have trouble paying attention to natural hunger signals.

That's a pretty big sweeping generalization about people on WW.... I have no problem paying attention to my hunger signals, especially now that I am on WW. And, I do 5-6 servings of fruit/veggies a day, no problem. I think QuilterinVA is correct.

No one got fat without overeating, and you won't overeat if you pay attention to your body's natural hunger signals. It is a generalization, but it's true for me and I imagine a lot of people in the room, many of whom I've seen at OA meetings as well.

Fruit is free because they assume most people are not going to grab a bushel of oranges and sit on the couch eating them all. Atleast thats what i was told when i asked how much is too much fruit when i started.

I don't think its necessary to limit fruit, but I could see some fruits having points (like some vegetables do... bananas for example). No one is getting fat from eating 5 apples a day I'm willing to bet

I've been hearing that they are possibly lowering the daily points and will start counting fruit. Of course we really won't know for sure until the official release. However, I would like to point out why we are already hearing about tweaks. It's called "Marketing". Weight Watchers is a business first and foremost. These "leaks" are on purpose. They do it every year, just to get every one buzzing about it. Not that I'm condemning them for it, creating a buzz is definitely good for business. I commend them

Hopefully it won't be too drastic. This program does work.

I just join WW this past week and agree about the fruit. I'm a binge eater and it's nothing for me to eat 10 bananas No way can I give myself permission to eat as much fruit as I like.

When it comes to foods high in fructose or carbs I think limits are probably a good idea.

We're not supposed to eat as much fruit as we want, as much anything as we want. We're supposed to eat until we're satisfied (not full and bloated). It's suggested to eat 5 fruits or veggies a day.

If the program is working for you and you love the results, God bless. I understand defending something that is working for you. But WWPP is not a one-size fits all and the problem seems to be the 29 points being the minimum and to some extent the fruit. The recipe builder calculates points of fruit salad and there is a disclaimer about why the points aren't what you expected.....well that tells you right there that fruits do have points, but your program guide says they are zero points. Add together 1 large apple and 1 large banana--its 6 points. Divide that by two and eat half...its 3 points--but don't bother counting them. They raised the points on everything, including fruits--then said they're zero. Bad move.

Back in the day, non-starchy veg was unlimited on WW and has been unlimited on every WW incarnation for twenty or more years. That "free for all" never impacted people's success the way labeling fruit as zero points, ergo "free" has, IF we want to blame the fruit.

Fruit was previously accounted for (except when using prior versions of SFT, whatever that was called previously), and back in the exchange days on WW it was, for most adult females, maxed at 2 portions daily, and a 1/2 banana was a portion.

If you tell someone that something is "zero" or free, its can be a problem. Also, the SUGGESTION of 5 servings of fruit/veg per day is up to interpretation. If you hate veg, there it has been stated to go ahead and have five fruits. Five fruits daily is lotsa fruit.

I limited myself to 2 fruits a day on PP and as y'all may have read I was less than thrilled with my weight loss, following the program as written. Maybe because I have "less to lose" maybe because I have some health issues...but what I do know is in 1 week of counting calories the difference in weight loss was staggering - 3 pounds - and I left a lot of points uneaten at the end of each day. At the end of my at-work tour I'll decide to continue with WW or not. 90% of it is useful to me....the other 10% I've had to take into my own hands.

It is no secret that for some people, new users, lifetimers and even WW leaders and receptionists, PP as written isn't working. WW may not acknowledge the reason(s), but all one has to do is search the internet to find out that there are problems with WWPP and WW will most like do something about it. WW doesn't want its reputation ruined, or to lose all that hot cash that has been coming in only to lose it because the program doesn't work for everyone straight out of the box--and it should.

We can guess all we like and argue about it one way or the other, but the bottom line is....if WW tweaks it, and the program works for you, change nothing. If you feel the need to tweak it, go ahead and don't even wait for any announcements or adjustments from WW. If you like the aspect of accountability and group support and want to continue, then perhaps a tweak of a) limiting the fruit to 2 portions max per day and/or b) dropping your points target of 29 to 26, 25 or 24 will make all the difference for you.

There are groups over at WW's own website who have dared to tweak the program for themselves, or adamantly return to Momentum. There are people right here following the old plan because the new one didn't work for them, or they were just more comfortable with what previously worked. There are groups of people all over the net having issues not losing weight on WWPP, or worse they are gaining, or just not thrilled with the money and effort spent for the lackluster result received.

WW will have to make its unhappy customers happy again. For those people for whom the program works, you're the lucky ones and probably the majority, but there is a subset of users that the program has crushed, and that needs to be addressed.

Forget the fruit for a moment. That fruit is getting all the blame. 29 points minimum whether you are 5 feet 8 and 180 pounds or 5 feet and 180 pounds..it doesn't take a lot to figure out that each has different nutritional needs. Add into that the free fruit----yes, yes, yes---if it isn't free they should not market it that way....same as they market losing 1-2 pounds healthfully--and there's the issue.

My leader this week wasn't surprised that I tweaked the program and got a great result. Perhaps the leaders are tired of churning out the eat more/eat less/exercise more/exercise less/watch your sodium/drink more water/use your weekies/cut back on weeklies/use your AP/don't use your AP/eat less fruit. It has to be hard on them to have even one dissatisfied customer that they don't have an answer for, but corporate keeps telling them to push the WWPP program regardless.

I hope tweaks are coming. Something is broken and needs fixing. That is my truth. Maybe it isn't yours, and I respect that. I'm looking forward to some WW sanctioned tweaks.

WW messed up and will make it right.

But weight watchers has always been that way... tweaks needed because we are all different and have different body types. Some of us can't have dairy, some of us can't eat carbs without bloating. The program isn't _broken_ or need to be fixed because it is working for _most_ people and that is the best they can do.

In fact I think the new program is the closest to a truly healthy system of eating than it ever has been. It puts stress on the good things (fruit, veggies, healthy oil, protein) and weights the scale against the fillers like carbs and junk that we like to fit in because we "have the points".

We have no idea if the program isn't working for others because they have eaten nothing but doritos and cheese (but if was within the points!) or if they truly are meeting their GHG. In theory it should still work on a diet filled with crap, but realistically our bodies need healthy fuel and doritos and cheese are not it, no matter how many points they are.

That doesn't mean we should change the program because it allows for someone to make those choices. We are all responsible for our own decisions. If you eat 5 bananas a day just because its free.... well you should ask yourself what you are looking to get out of it. Do you want to be healthy and learn the best way to fuel your body? Or are you just looking to lose weight while seeing what you can get away with eating? I promise if it is the latter, a person will always fail. I failed under the mindset for years. I ate low fat crackers and cookies and all the things people talked about at WW meetings. I lost sometimes but I never really learned what my body needed. I never really understood that I could have so much more if I chose the vegetables over slice of bread. It wasn't until I realized that I get far more out of eating truly healthy than trying to cheat myself that I have been able to seriously work the program and meet my goals.

If I didn't follow it, I would be responsible for my own poor results or failure. I followed it to a T, no junk. 29 is too many points for me. Period.

If losing weight was that easy then we wouldn't have weight watchers or 3fatchicks at all. C'mon. Just eat less and exercise more - be responsible!

I would wager a guess that a lot of people who join weight watchers have some degree of disordered eating. A lot of people need stricter rules than "just don't go overboard on the fruit" and putting some kind of cap on fruit shouldn't hurt the people who have been doing just fine on the current program but will give others a better idea of how much is too much.

When WW first switched from exchanges to points there was no cap on fiber. Some members got really creative and would add fiber to foods and went a little crazy with it. Then WW tweaked the program and created the fiber cap of 4 grams. A lot of members "fiber cheated" and didn't use the fiber cap because they were successful without it. That is fine. But it did help the people who went crazy with the fiber to lower the points of food. Win for all.

I personally don't go overboard with fruit. But, I can see how a lot of people would. I can see how people would binge on fruit or eat fruit when they are stressed or whatever and aren't learning how to deal with some of those bad habits that got many of us to WW in the first place. Yes, I doubt anyone got fat from eating too much fruit but I think the problem is more eating too much (of anything) or eating emotionally.

I think it is fantastic that so many know how to eat to fullness and no more, or can control how much fruit they eat. Count yourself lucky and be proud of yourself that you are ahead of the game. But not everyone is at your level and it can take time to learn your hunger signals when you've been ignoring them your whole life and it can be hard to let food go to waste or leave a meal unfinished.