Many people refer to foods or behaviors as "good" or "bad." I'm not talking about "ew, this milk looks like cottage cheese, it must be bad," but about "potatoes are bad" or "skim milk is good." I can't count how many times I've heard friends say "Ooh, I'm going to be bad and order dessert!" or "I was bad on my vacation."

Maybe it's just me, but if I designate foods as good and bad in that fashion, they loom a lot larger in my mind than if I just consider them morally neutral. Creme brulee isn't toxic waste and yogurt isn't virtuous; they're just foods, and I am free to eat either but choose to eat the latter. That doesn't make ME virtuous, either--it just makes me someone who's losing fat.

I also have a tendency to enjoy a certain amount of "badness," so calling a food "bad" automatically gives it an allure it wouldn't otherwise have.

Imbuing foods with goodness or badness places it in an emotional context that I don't want it to have. I think I'm going to make a conscious effort to think of stuff as "on plan" and "off plan," maybe "more healthful" and "less healthful," rather than designating it good or bad.

I got to thinking about all this when I was talking to a friend who complimented me for being so good. I haven't been good, I've just been eating healthier food. (I've actually been a little bit of a jerk, especially in traffic. ) If I want to be good, I need to do more than just eat some different stuff.

I don't designate food good or bad - and I get really annoyed at/sad about people who call themselves good or bad, just because of what they eat.
Making helpful/unhelpful food choices, yes; good or bad, which are moral descriptors, nope.

When I tried to diet in the past, I told myself that certain foods (carbs) were bad and therefore I couldn't have them... which would immediately lead me to crave them and usually cave in. The worst breakup I ever had was because I had decided that my ex was inherently bad/evil, which led me to obsessively think about her and conceive ways that we could make it work. For me, labeling something as inherently bad just makes me want it even more and takes the power from me and places it with someone/something else... which is why relationship with "bad" boys/girls rarely works out.

This time around, I'm still not eating certain foods, but it's not because those foods are bad, they're just not what I need. Consequently, I don't crave them or feel deprived because I've recognized that they're not inherently bad foods, they're just not what I need at this point. Same thing happened once I realized that my ex wasn't evil/bad, she was just not what I needed at that point in (or any point) in my life...and I naturally stopped trying to make it work. Once you take the power something/someone has over you, it's easier to decide that you sincerely don't need it/him/her around.

Thinking this way has made it easy-peasey for me to actually lose weight. Hope the analogy to relationships isn't confusing

I even try to go one step further. I try not to label foods (independently) as "healthy" or "unhealthy." I can and do look at foods as (un)healthy choices for me, but no food is healthy or unhealthy in a vaccuum. To a starving person, a Big Mac could be a healthier choice than pounds of celery.

Even for myself, I try to look at the larger context of food. Spinach isn't healthy even for me, unless it's within the framework of my entire diet. I couldn't and shouldn't try to live on only spinach. No food is so healthy in a vaccum - it all depends on your personal situation and the rest of your diet. No food is healthy if you're allergic to it, or if you eat nothing but that food.

It's one of the reasons I love exchange plans, they help me determine my best food choices, based on what I've already chosen. If I've used all of my protein exchanges, and none of my vegetables, then vegetables are the healthiest choice for the day...

I also like exchange plans because I can tweak them according to what I discover about my food choices. When I found that I lost weight better and felt better on a lower-carb diet, I swapped out some of my starch exchanges for protein exchanges. I'm still tweaking and finding the best pattern of eating for me, but no matter what pattern that ends up being, I can use an exchange plan to help me stick to that pattern.

Food isn't good or bad. It's fuel for our body. Any food can be worked into a balanced weight loss plan occasionally. I'm with you, saying a food is bad doesn't make sense because it makes me feel guilty, then I think I've fallen off the wagon so I eat some more. I'm working on getting rid of that attitude.

It must be in the air today. I was thinking about "good" and "bad" foods. The thing that I am learning as a really novice calorie counter is that it eliminates the label....or it changes it from "good" and "bad", to "value". I am finding myself looking at food and saying what am I getting for those calories spent, and is it worth it. I am actually excited by the prospect, because it puts me more control, and in the past, I felt like everything was being taken away.

I agree wholeheartedly! Especially about us NOT being virtuous by eating so called "good food" LOL that's a fools game to be sure!

Food is food, some of it is more dense in nutrients obviously so I try to choose those, but no food is taboo to me ~ i rarely choose cheesecake but if I really wanted it, I'd have it and not vilify it OR me for that choice.

I want to weep every time I hear someone say they HATE themselves for being fat or they think being thin (in and of itself) will miraculously make them happy. I ate too much and got fat, I ate less and lost weight. That's the equation pure and simple. I was a good person and loved myself then, and I continue to do so

Excellent thread, thanks for the thoughts and wisdom!

I have to say I disagree about there not being "good" or "bad" foods. Foods filled with colourings, chemicals, preservatives, trans fats etc have no redeeming qualities in my opinion. I'm not basing this on fat or sugar content necessarily, but some of the ready made things out there are truly frightening if you read the ingredients.
As far as desserts and things go - if you occasionally have a piece of something completely home made I'm sure that would be fine for a lot of people.
I put even "wholesome" desserts in the no-go category (and they are therefore "bad" for ME) because they trigger binges and "I-want-more".

Ditto. These foods are bad for me. But, I'm not bad if I eat them.

I think there needs to be some leeway for processed foods even if you or I or others may choose not to eat them. Is it the best idea to drink a big bright glass of Kool-Aid sweetened with an artificial sweetener instead of a glass of water? Possibly not, but it's a long sight better for a person wanting to lose weight than drinking a sugary soft drink would be.

I am all for choosing "better" if "best" choices can't be had, so I would cheer on anyone who wanted to lose weight, but couldn't stand drinking plain water if he/she chose Crystal Light. And as Kaplods noted earlier, in other contexts opting for the sugary stuff is actually the better choice.

Even preservative-laden stuff has a place on the table, especially when getting enough calories may be a more pressing issue than consuming extra calories. Only refrigeration has meant more to the safety of the world's food supply, and not everywhere in the world has reliable refrigeration.

Cake is morally neutral. If I decide that it's arbitrarily "good" because I associate it with happy birthdays or "bad" because it's full of carby fatty tastiness topped with technicolor sprinkles, I am going to want it that much more. Like BarristerGirl said, it can become an unhealthy relationship for me if I give it that kind of power (loved that analogy, by the way).

I guess I just got driven a little batty by my friend's proclamations of her being "good" for passing up dessert and "bad" for having cafe au lait. I love her to bits, but geez...it's milk in your coffee, sweetie, not a coup staged on an unsuspecting third-world nation.

It just got me thinking about the way we talk about food, y'know?

Yep, I agree here. I just can't eat certain foods or I could easily go into a binging fest. I treat it like I'm an alcoholic but with sugar. If I make one miss-step it could lead me to being "drunk" on chocolate. I do consider it "bad" behavior because binging is me not dealing with my emotions head on but rather drowning them in food.

However, if it's better for you not to restrict things, you have to do what works! It's just not something that I can handle.

"Having little to no value," or "being of inferior quality" isn't the same as "bad" though. Using bad and good to describe foods, ties in the association of morality and virtue to those foods, and by extention the very act of eating (or refraining from) them carries over to the person eating them. You're "being bad" if you indulge in "bad" foods, and you're "being good" if you don't. And you're morally superior to anyone who eats fewer "good" foods and more "bad" foods than you do.

Food guilt is a big part of the disfunction of dieting. We don't just see poor food choices (poor in terms of the choices being incompatible with our health goals) as mistakes, we tend to see them as moral failings. We're bad, and stupid, and lazy, and crazy, and selfish, and useless.... down the path that results in thoughts that send us off our food plans thinking "what's the use, I'll never be good enough for it to matter."

I don't think the word choice is as important as the meaning we assign to it, but taking the moral judgement out of eating is often part of this journey for many of us.

Keeping moral judgement out of food and eating doesn't mean that we choose to eat foods. You don't have to see peanuts or wheat as "bad" in order to avoid them if you have an allergy (or to avoid them for any other reason).

It was a lot harder for me to avoid sugar and wheat when I saw them as bad (and me for eating them), than it has been now that I realize that they have physiological consequences that I want to avoid. Wheat triggers a nasty and often painful and itchy (which is sometimes worse than painful) and ugly skin rash. Sugar and carbs in general trigger and worsen health issues and symptoms.

Which means that eating a cupcake doesn't make me bad, it just makes me ill.

Yep, it's the moral judgement that I am trying to purge from my thinking. That goes in both directions, too--I don't want to sit in smug superiority and judge some less "virtuous" soul who eats a handful of Cheez-its, and I don't want to beat myself for occasionally remembering how much I once liked them.

That used to be one of my wonderful "motivational" ideas when I was in my early 20s. I decided that I would in fact flog myself when I thought of a "bad" food and of how much I wanted it. Literally, as in use a doubled-over electrical cord on my back like a dark-age penitent would scourge himself to purify his thoughts. Even the literal threat of physical pain didn't move me an inch--I still wanted (and ate) all the "bad" foods, I just grew accustomed to paying the price for them with a (physical and emotional) self-administered beating.

It's really important to me that I don't find my way back there; I want to feel good and work toward feeling better, not feel pain and guilt about finding food designed to be tasty delicious.

I like this formulation; it resonates with my own thinking as well.

Food tastes good; snack foods and sweets are practically engineered to be tempting and delightful. I judge myself harshly for enough stuff already; I don't really want to make it a part of my process to hate myself for being attracted to these things.

Accordingly, I try to stay away from saying "I was bad last night" if I've overeaten or failed to resist some treat I had hoped to stay away from. Instead, I'll try to say things like "I overate last night" or "I ate more than I'd planned last night."

And then, after that, I'll try to say "drat, next time I'm really saying no to that ice cream." Because the real point of this, for me, is not to make myself a perfect virtuous angel who never touches food that isn't wholesome and packed with nutrition. The point is to get better at making choices that further my long-term goals.