I've been on Weight Watchers since June first, and while my loss is nothing to sneeze at (30ish) I've been frustrated and stressed out the whole time. Since 1 point can be anywhere from 35-100 calories with the plan as it stands right this minute (not talking about the new plan unveiled in a few days) I can consume the same points, but have way different calorie levels. So my losses were erratic....I *thought* I was doing the same, but have now realized I wasn't. I've been dealing with a weird plateau for about 2 months. My gained and lost the same 5 pounds, only ending up with an average of 0.5lb a week loss in that time no matter how hard I worked.

And while I know that a loss is a loss....it killed my confidence in my lifestyle change. Frustrated, ready to quit, etc.

Someone I follow on Twitter uses something called ************.com. I'd stayed away from calorie-counting plans in the past bc frankly it seemed very overwhelming. But this site works very much like the WW etools that I'd been doing, so it's just as easy for the most part. And I'm able to tell it that I want to lose 1lb, 1.5lbs, 2lbs a week and it adjusts my calories. If I wanna eat more that day, I exercise more.

This week I've been following it and the weight is finally starting to come off, the plateau seems to be ending. I was overeating on WW! To compare 2 days on both plans - I had almost the exact same calories (diff of maybe 16) but one day was 26 pts and the other was 30.5. And that's not even using my Weekly Points WW gives you. No wonder I was having trouble losing!!

I'm finding that with weight loss, the more accuracy and control I have, the less panicked and frustrated I get. Now my next step is to buy a heart rate monitor to get more accurate reports of calories burned while exercising.

I've been a die-hard WW with over 30 years on LT and no desire to go off. Since millions have satisfactory losses, I don't think it was WW. Did you get all the 9 GHGs in every day?

I'm glad you have found a way that works for you. It would drive me crazy to try to reach a specific calorie count every day.

Thanks goodness there are so many ways to lose weight, we can all find the one that will work for our lifestyle.

I've lost over 100 pounds on WW, and loved the plan. I found though, when I ate too much pre-packaged food, stuff that was one point, but a cheater one point (as in they artificially upped the fiber to lower the point value) that it made a big difference (in a bad way).

I think it's a great plan, and like Susan said, if you follow the GHG and get all whole foods you should be eating, it makes a big difference.

I think the new Points Plus plan will also address this.

Good luck!

I've done WW before and lost around 25 pounds, and gained them back. I'm doing calorie counting this time and finding it to be a better choice for me. I aim for a weekly average on calories and go higher or lower on individual days. I've lost almost 50 pounds this way. This success is also due to a focus on really healthy foods with less junk food and I'm just in a better mind-set overall. I know these things make a big difference too, so I'm not saying WW wouldn't work... However, in retrospect, I do think WW was less effective for me because they gave me too many points to work with... I never had to make a BIG change in my eating habits to stay with in the allotted points. Just my 2 cents!

I tried weight watchers twice in my life and didn't like it for the same reasons. I like to be able to track calories and the points are just too vague. Also all of the pre packaged products- I just don't like them. I know it is totally within my power to not eat them, but in just seemed to be about all the tricks and stuff you could do to eat more for points. People in meetings were always so focused on what they could get away with instead of just eating healthy. I know it must not be like that for everyone but that was my experience and I just didn't like it.

I loved Weight Watchers, but I preferred when it was an exchange plan (before 1997). Then I discovered TOPS, and I love it even more. You can follow any food plan you want (the one that is officially endorsed is an exchange plan very similar to WW's pre-1997 plans). When I learned that I can lose and control hunger better on low-carb, I just tweaked my exchange plan to include more protein exchanges and fewer starch/bread exchanges.

I consider exchange plans a form of calorie-counting (really the points are too, except you're dealing with estimations). Exchange plans are a little more precise than WW points, and a little less precise than "straight" calorie counting.

A lot of TOPS members still follow WW plans (not only the current WW plan, but previous plans as well).

The main advantage is that a year in TOPS will cost you less than a month in WW (and you can win some of your money back). The main disadvantage, is to members new to dieting concepts. If you're fairly familiar with nutrition and dieting options, you won't have a problem, but because no one food plan is endorsed, it can be overwhelming for first-time dieters. There is a book available (The Choice is Mine) that explains exchange plan dieting (most chapters have a copy to loan members before they decide if they want to buy), and has a lot of helpful information. You also get a monthly newsletter/magazine (I find the success stories and the recipes helpful).


I love TOPS because of the contests and incentives. I'm still a five year old at heart, so earning a charm for every 10 lb's lost, or winning the weekly "biggest loser" prize really gives me a boost.


And just today I found an article describing research that found TOPS to be as affective as more expensive programs, so that's exciting.

http://www.denverpost.com/fitness/ci_16478850

I started to go on WW, but ultimately chose calorie counting. Mostly because it is free. I don't want to have to keep paying some program for the rest of my life. And I was reading around about the new program on the WW swedish site and there is a lot of people that have been on the new program for a while now and they are not happy with it. (((shrug))) it is all about what works for you.

To the WW fans - I never said WW wouldn't/couldn't work for others. I'm sure that I would have eventually started to slowly lose again. I'm just looking to see if there were others with the same control-freak tik as me

Be it good or bad, I have a goal timeframe, and yeah it does cause me some anxiety. But I can't make it go away. Actually I have two, a vague one and a more specific one.
The vague one is that I cannot see a new fibromyalgia specialist until I'm under 180, at least. I'm so sick of the doctors only seeing my excess weight and not seeing the disease. I had this when I was thin, my mom is skinny and is just as bad as me, but they still use the old "lose weight,you'll be better" line.
The specific one is that early next December, we're going to Disney World. And I need to be as close to goal weight as possible by then to ensure I have no problems with rides. Due to two months of wasted time here, I'm now on a crunch and have a year to lose nearly 100. Estimating and guessing won't cut it anymore.

I do know what you mean about doctors seeing the weight, not the fibro, because I was diagnosed with fibro (among other issues) at my highest weight. However, I'd strongly encourage you not to wait, because getting your fibro under control can't wait until you reach a certain weight. In fact, getting your fibro under control not only helps the fibro symptoms, it also makes weight loss much easier in my experience.

With good communication you can get the doctors (in most cases) to look past your weight. My tactic has always been to beat new doctors to the punch. I tell them right away (before they can tell me) that I know my weight is contributing or even causing the problem, and I'm working hard on that - but I need help me treating the body I have now, not the one I'll have months from now.

One doctor told me (and it's sure true for me) that it's hard to lose weight with poorly controlled fibro. Not only does the sleep deprivation and fatigue associated with fibro tend to make exercise and weight loss difficult, but eating releases endorphins (natural pain-relievers) so a person's tendency is to eat the foods (and in quantities) that provide the most pain relief (which also tend to be the foods that increase inflammation, which then increase pain).

I'd also be suspicious of a doctor who tells you (especially with your family history of fibro) that losing weight will necessarily help. My best doctors told me that research suggests that weight loss isn't nearly as effective as exercise at improving fibro. Of course it's hard to exercise when you're experiencing severe pain and fatigue. Find out whether there's a warm water therapy pool available in your area, your local arthritis foundation or United Way should know - so should your doctors, but I've found some doctors don't keep up on local resources (a sign of a poor doctor, in my opinion).

The longer you wait to get good symptom control, the harder it is to get control. You don't want to get sicker just to prove to your doctor that it isn't the weight, it's the fibro.

*No offense meant to the many people who have had success on WW, but this is the calorie counting forum, and this post is about the downside of WW, so, I'm gonna go for it.

I never, ever understood the rationale of changing foods which comes with accurate measurements - calories - to a made up system of points.

There's just too much leeway. And then factor in the free food. Forget about it.

I've said time and time again that I needed brutal honesty to get this done and to me, WW is not.

Once I started counting calories, it opened my eyes to the value, the worth of foods. WW skews that.

I'm so glad you recognized that this plan was not working for you and have made the switch.

Yes, calorie counting may seem overwhelming at first,(no more so than WW, that's for sure)but before you know it, it will be second nature to you. It's important to know how many calories are in foods so that you can then judge if it's worth eating. How many calories that is, not *points*.

I did/do have to combine that calorie counting with a concentration on whole foods. I know the value of foods, and I need to get the biggest bang for my calorie buck, which automatically steers me towards, voluminous, satiating, filling, healthy, nutritious foods.

I look forward to hearing of your continued progress.

I could never understand WW, but I do want to join something when I am closer to goal so I have a motivation to maintain. WW at least seems to put it straight out there about their Gold Member status and others hide any incentive, if it exists, to maintain your weight. I can't believe how much WW costs to give you a pile of contrived information that is not written on the packets you get your food in like the calories are. The main benefit is the weekly meeting, and honestly I think that if the government is serious about weight issues they need to start offering this as a free service out of doctors' surgeries like they do for stopping smoking. If I smoked I could have nicotine replacement, weekly meetings, a telephone helpline, a nurse-led clinic... it wouldn't make it easy, but it would make it a darned sight easier than the weight loss alternative which is to issue you with a leaflet about vegetables (in case you don't know what they are) and a leaflet advising you to switch to brown bread and skimmed milk (had both since I was 5) and say they can weigh you once a month if you like, but it's not really worth the bother since you could do that at home anyway. Harness what people get from WW and bring it on board under the healthcare system to see real results, the money saved in bariatric equipment alone would pay for it. But everyone has to put out a "magic formula" before they seem able to offer weekly support meetings so you pay an absolute fortune to learn a convoluted plan just so you can keep up with the conversation at the meetings. Hate it, would love to have a group here that did meetings where the meetings are just about help and support and more importantly that they had a system that encouraged successful members to stick around, and maintenance is where it really kicks up a gear. Maybe some of the WW and similar meetings could have a maintainers' group after, say WW 7-8 and maintainers 7.45-8.30 so there is a chance to overlap and share stories. Oops, just created a whole weight loss empire.

Back to the fibro thing, I think so many doctors have now got it into their heads that because there are some illnesses that are obesity linked (and the scientific jury is actually VERY much still out on whether obesity causes diabetes or the other way around or a third unknown factor causes both, but since obesity looks easy to cure we jump on the public health bandwagon with it) that every illness is obesity linked and everything will go away if only you were thin. Strange logic since anorexia is an illness and sure doesn't go away when you are thin!! Doctors seem to forget I've ever been any other weight when the promise me that the problem is my weight, jeez you saw me last year nearly 30lbs lighter when I was first referred for this problem and it can't have been caused by my weight back then cos I put on the weight because I have this problem!

I find that the system is so ingrained that fatness is the only cause of any problem that when I was skinny it was next to impossible to get home help aids in a sensible size. I have a frame on my toilet to help me to get up/back into my wheelchair depending how I am doing that day, and every frame was 18 inches or more across. Every rollator too wide for me to push. No physical therapist could find me equipment in a nice neat size. If anything it's been easier now I'm bigger because I managed to fill out all my oversized kit! Now when I have to take a public wheelchair at the airport they have 26 inch bariatric chairs because there are so many larger folk needing them, but their logic that you can put a small person in a big wheelchair but you can't fit a big one in a small wheelchair is flawed - how am I meant to reach the wheels???!

The rationale is twofold as I understand. One is that people have an easier time working with small numbers (1 and 2 digit points versus food calories in the hundreds). I recently read the patent app for the new program coming out tomorrow. The new point formula takes into account the amount of the food that is burned up in eating that food (protein burns more for example) and they want to encourage eating healthier choices.

Personally I am both using WW and counting calories. Both approaches have advantages for me. Counting up calories and working with larger numbers doesn't bother me. So I am recording calories at livestrong. On the other hand, I do find meetings helpful at WW. I've been to many so never hear anything new but just the process of weekly accountability is helpful to me. I know that isn't helpful to everyone.

For me, I think that the new WW program will help encourage me to healthier eating. At the same time, I do like to know all the underlying numbers and data so I like to also record the calories and meet my calorie goal while also staying within my WW points.

Of course, the thing is that everyone has to find what works for them.

Just re-reading your post. This makes so much sense to me, and how I feel as well (guess it goes with the brutal honesty thing). Why guess with something that you don't need to? Isn't our calorie consumption important? Why make a *game* of it? I definitely would be nervous and anxious using a *fake*, made up system, given that there's a real one in place.

Now you see this is something *I* never felt the need to track. I keep my calories consumed totally and completely separate from the calories I burn. Those monitors are quite inaccurate and I don't think they provide any valuable information. It's not like I would change what I was consuming any way, so for me, I see no purpose to it. I eat what I eat and I burn what I burn. My food intake doesn't change if I've exercised or moved less or more on any given day. Any added activity is a bonus in the calorie deficit department.

The year I was losing though, I did wear a pedometer. That kept me moving!

Finding the tools that you need to make this easier, more enjoyable, more stick-able to and to work better is what it's all about.

*again, this is the Calorie counter forum and I am not meaning to take anything from anyone who has found success with WW. You've obviously found what works for you.

TOPS (Taking Off Pounds Sensibly) is very straight-forward about their maintenance plan (KOPS, Keeping Off Pounds Sensibly). So long as you stay within your target range (within 3 lbs over and 7 lbs under your goal weight, determined by you and your doctor) you maintain your KOPS status. The privilege of KOPS status in most clubs is free monthly dues. Some will even use chapter funds to pay part or all of a KOPS member's national dues (the yearly $26 that includes the monthly magazine subscription).

There are also award ceremonies, both private within chapters and also if you want to attend, there are public award ceremonies at the rallies & recognition days (essentially weight loss conferences).

There are weight loss retreats and cruises too (though those are at your own expense).

If you want to start a new chapter (even if there are already groups in your area) you only need 4 people, so if there's any reason you can't attend the local meetings or don't like the groups available, you can start your own.

The most common argument I hear against TOPS is the average age of members in most group (not a lot of young people in many groups), but that's hardly an argument when it's so easy to start a group. Some high school kids have even (with their school's endorsement) organized TOPS chapters as an extracurricular activities in their schools (like many high school groups they're self-governing, but under the guidance of a faculty advisor).

Kaplods - thank you for posting about TOPS! I had never heard of them and am now excited. I'm very social and like the accountability of meetings but never wanted to follow the WW plan. I also looked into OA but am not into the 12 step and religious aspects of that. This sounds right up my alley. I looked and there are several groups near me.