I seems to me as if our bodies care not if we've been thin or fat before, or how many times we've lost , or how fast, or by which method ~ that the past is irrevelent to how we must go forward, yet seems to hang us up and fill us with doubt every step of the way. What makes me ponder this, in reading previous threads, is that some of us can maintain change , and some of us can't.

It seems to me, the real ingredient, the real trick ~ is in our self image. If we move into a self image that is healthy and trim, self-loving, and self-preserving, as our bodies change incrementally ~ then we can manage it. If we perpetually allow the negative self-talk to bring us back to a fat and compromised self image, well then, we gravitate back, as we eat to fill the order of our previous self image. We do everything to sabotage the new self. It's that simple in my observation.

Mind change is infinitely more important before the means to change the body. It is very likely that the mind changing incrementally as the body changes, is the reason the body continues to change. That the mind change is prerequisite to the weightloss. Well I suppose then, we might actually consider paying more attention to our self image than our scales.... what say?

How to do this ? l.o.l ! Visualization I suppose, um, for one? Doing the things that a thinner self would do : shop for clothes that flatter, spend more time in the kitchen preparing healthy food (instead of grabbing the highest calorie food)... you name it. Times I've felt this in the past were key when I was falling in love, typically had no appetite, or interest in sabotage, or a new major life change as a new job or residence. How about you, the times you were above the negative, and just exploding into a sense of Newness, an Authentic Self, a life you felt you were true and on course with?

How do you think you could grasp those aspects at this time?

I think you're absolutely right and self-image is the key - or at least a very major component of keeping a healthy weight.

I have a full length mirror in the bathroom. When i get ready in a morning and look at myself in the mirror and i like what i see, i feel committed to preserving it, to being healthy, to eat well. I feel bright and cheerful and confident and i really want to work to stay that way and it affects my choices accordingly through the day until i'm ready for another reinforcement the next morning.

And the converse is the true - if i'm gaining weight or i'm higher than my ideal weight i look shiftily into the mirror and don't take time to assess it and i try to dismiss it. I don't see anything worth 'preserving' and i don't take any commitment with me for the day and therefore eat badly.

That's more of a literal self-image than you were talking about i know however the inner-self image can be fed by daily visual inputs if you let it (or not, if you avoid it).

I'll have to think about what leads me to gain weight. I think normally it's catalysed by a holiday or maybe an injury or some change to the routine, and for a while i can eat badly and 'get away with it' which starts me off on the slippery slope!

I think there are lots of different answers to your questions. Yes the self image is the key, but how that helps or hinders each persons weight fluctuations will be based on individual people and their life experiences.

I think that doing is more important than feeling, and there is far too much emphasis on emotional and mental change in the weight-loss conversation overall.

I don't always feel like eating healthfully, or going to bed on time, or getting up in the morning and working out, or brushing my teeth, or making dinner for my kids, or going to work, or yadda yadda. I do it anyways. Then I feel good, because I did it.

My recommendation is to stop thinking about doing and start doing; the emotional change will follow.

That's good advice, and it works for me... sometimes.

Sometimes my mentality is stronger than my physicality. Sometimes I can *think myself* into action. I just keep repeating to myself... saying "get off yer *** Beach!" and finally I do.

But sometimes it's the other way around... my mentality is just a slug, and I can't talk myself into anything, and YET - I find that getting physical gets me outta that *blahbittyblab* quicker than anything else. So I go take a walk or something (to clear my mind!) and suddenly I feel like DOING more.

So I guess it's a one-two punch for me.

But of course, there are those times when I'm neither mental nor physical... those times suck. OR sometimes I'm feeling both mental AND physical. And of course, I like those times most of all, because I really feel accomplished.

I don't think it's a coincidence that it was a couple months after I decided to stop being a slob and dressing nice and fixing myself up, that I started eating better and losing weight.

I think a lot of the argument between those who say stop thinking/feeling and start doing, and those who feel they need to get their head and heart straight, is personality. I think it's unfortunate that either approach it stressed as necessary, or criticized as unnecessary. I really think it's a lot about personality. Plenty of people find that deep lasting physical change only comes after mental and emotional change.

OTOH, analysis paralysis is a very real thing!

Right, and thank you ! I am one who *does* plenty; hike with dog several 'most' days for average 30 to 45 minutes (depending of course, if I'm in an up mood , or down, it will be less/more often, and shorter/longer duration) , I cook and eat mostly WholeFoods from scratch, but continues to fill the deficit gaps with high caloric destruction bombs, oh, like butter binges (smearing gobs of butter on pieces of ww toast, etc) or a whole jar of toasted almonds, etc . Oddly, I feel a lot of the time I'm On Plan , with a great self esteem, but there's this lurking side to me that ambushes too, and that is my self doubt, my saboteur, and it can take out a 99 percent good track record in an effortless few minutes.

All my (adult) life I go into these wrestling matches with my conscience ~ I'll say to myself "No Sugar, No Flour" and adhere to it for a few days, then I'll maybe change course and say "eat anything I want, but in moderation ~ if it makes me happy I won't feel deprived and binge " or "Just be Happy, the Rest Will Follow" . I mean , I change mottos for myself all the time. I am a huge fan of Just Do It, don't get me wrong, however, my mind is always up to some trick on a subconscious level that I can't really keep supervised. I am ready to admit I am very confused and have lost my bearing.

I have recently gotten gung ho into knitting, and after knitting for months hats, scarves, bags, pillows ... for others, I am faced with the hard reality that I am *putting off* knitting for myself for several reasons, the primary being that I won't look good in something that took all that work to do, or maybe even that I don't want to draw attention to my body by knitting something for it, or lastly, that I will knit something of a beautiful design, but by wearing it, it won't look good, I will be disappointed, and it will even worsen my already shattered self confindence. So , I suspect that self image is a real bad problem right now.

I have been pondering (I said pondering an idea, I wasn't making a statement btw) the Positive THinking attitudes of Self Image, as there is a certain truth about the Power of Believing In something. I have always been a person with a very good creative visual mind's eye, but in recent years, I can't even scrape up a solid Mind's Picture of myself slender and happy in my body, and the sensual way clothes feel, or that a nice bike ride feels. It's as if my mind is blocking that access. To some of you I may seem like I'm over complicating and over analyzing, however, if all there was to losing weight was Just Do It, there'd be no need for a huge forum of support.

Sure, I need to Just Do It, and I need to Believe In Myself too. I guess it's a matter of the Chicken and The Egg.