http://jezebel.com/5356697/fat-vs-fiction

I mostly disagree with the article, but I totally get where she's coming from.

I think weight is a combination of genetics and behavior. Your highest weight is NOT your destiny. A healthy weight is one where you can run up a flight of stairs without getting out of breath, eat portion-controlled food that you enjoy, and where YOU feel fantastic. No one should make anyone else feel ashamed for their size.

What say you, ladies?

I would have to disagree with the article. There are many points to which I could refute, but that would take far too long. The author uses the terms obese and overweight interchangeably, which they are not. Also, genetics do not rule the world in terms of weight. Yes, they matter, but they are not the end all be all. Diet and exercise matter.

<50 something crashing the thread>
Total garbage IMHO.
My life experience says otherwise. Granted, I'm only in my second year of maintaining a 95 lb. loss, but - NO - the author of this article does not know what they are talking about.

Ugh.

I think one of the biggest steps we take when we decide to lose weight is choosing accountability - acknowledging our bad habits and changing them for the better. And you know what? When we start exercising more and take control of our eating, most of us do lose weight. Just look at this board.

Which isn't to say genetics don't factor into it at all, of course they play a part. I'm not genetically "destined" to weigh 110 pounds, but I don't think I'm genetically destined to weigh 184 either. I made bad choices, my weight went up. It was my actions, not my genes. That's my bottom line.

Anyway, Kate Harding (the author) has reiterated this idea on her blog and in numerous other articles, and I just... ugh. As much as I'm glad that she's happy with her size, I just can't buy into this line of thought. It seems like an excuse.

I think some of the points have some validity. Unfortunately, obesity in the modern culture (in the last 60 years at least) is one of those polar subjects. The fringe opinions are the most common, the "voice of reason," almost never get heard (and in this article, it certainly wasn't, either).

So there are the "fat and anyone with any "extra" on their body is evil and probably on the fringe of death, or so miserable that death would be an improvement for them and society anyway" and the "fat is genetic and out of a person's control, and not bad for you anyway, in fact it's great to be fat and you skinny folk don't know what you're missing" camp.

As a whole "extreme opinions," are getting a lot more common. Common sense has goine out the window, and it doesn't even seem to be valued anymore. Anyone with a moderate viewpoint (on almost any subject) is a "fence sitter," or "wishy washy," or "afraid to take a stand."

I do take a stand, but my stand is usually in the middle on most subjects. Not because I'm weak-willed, lazy, wavering or uncertain, but because most of the time (I believe) that the "right" answers tend to lie in the middle (where no one else, it sometimes seems, is looking).

It seems I've been seeing more and more articles lately telling us that losing the weight and keeping it off is nearly impossible so you should just give up and be happy with yourself. It's infuriating! You say "I'm going to lose weight" and people look at you like you said "I'm going to win the lottery." Well sure it happens to some people but don't bet on it happening to YOU. Like you don't have a choice. Those who made it, they didn't work harder, they're just lucky. Guh. BS. Apologies to those in denial, weight loss and maintanence IS POSSIBLE. And I'm not going to sit around trying to convince myself I'm content lugging around an extra 100 pounds I don't need.


Oh, and the whole dieting makes you fatter thing was really annoying too. I see where she take the idea from. I've dieted and gained back the weight and then some multiple times. But I'm not delusional enough to believe that I wouldn't have gained that weight (even sooner) if I had not gone on the diet.

I have to admit I'm hesitant to get involved with this discussion, bc I discovered 3FC and fat acceptance at about the same time, and still have a foot in each camp as I am trying to find the middle ground that Kaplods talks about.

In this case, I actually come down on Kate's side (I think she does know what she's talking about) and I find her argument very compelling, in spite of still wanting to lose weight. I think it is hard at this point to argue on the basis of scientific studies, because there are so many conflicting ones. junkfoodscience.blogspot.com has a nice series on the "obesity paradox" that breaks down some of the studies to see what they are actually saying.

I do find it easy to believe that there are many vested interests, like pharma and the weight loss industry, with a lot of money riding on exploiting the "obesity crisis", and they fund studies that look for the outcome they want.

I also think that if Weight Watchers had solid evidence that their program worked, they'd be shouting that statistic from the roof top, rather than spokespeople accompanied by the disclaimer "results not typical". My personal experience, which seems to differ than a lot of others' on here, is having watched my friends lose and regain the same 30lbs on WW; no one I know has kept it off successfully, and these are women who are overachievers in every other aspect of their lives.

I don't buy the argument that FA is an "excuse" for fat people to stay fat. I think it's simply a realistic alternative to yo-yo dieting one's way to an even unhealthier point than they started. If I fail this time, for the umpteenth time, I think it probably would realistically be healthier for me to focus on the areas I can count successes (fitness goals, nutrition goals) than on the scale. I believe in health at every size. It encourages people to adopt healthy behaviors without feeling shame about their weight. That's not to say that some people can't use it as an excuse not to get healthy, if they are leading unhealthy lifestyles, but that is their choice and not something inherent to the movement. From what I know of Kate Harding, she leads a healthy lifestyle and still happens to be fat.

I get why people are uncomfortable with the idea that fat can be your genetic destiny. My personal experience does reinforce the assertion that genetics plays the largest role in a person's weight, but not the only role. I do find it interesting what lexie alluded to: people's "set point ranges" where their weight is naturally inclined to be, and because of our lifestyle these days, people feel like they are at the top of or over their natural ranges. I feel like that myself. I don't think this concept has been scientifically verified, but I find it compelling. Especially in light of the point in the article that the average recent weight gain for Americans is about 10lbs, and losing just 10lbs (5% for some average obese people) can have significant health benefits. I think that Kate Harding believes that it's the HAES practices that cause the weight loss and the health gains, and though the weight loss may be short lived, the health gains can be maintained.

This is all based on my experience. I come here because I know people have very different experiences with weight loss and obesity than I do, and I like to incorporate both sides into my journey to self-acceptance, whether it includes weight loss or not. I'm also a big critic of the tendency to conflate statistics with individuals; just because a majority of people who attempt diets or lifestyle changes fail, I don't think that says anything about any particular person on this forum. It describes the general population, but each person is unique and can deviate from that picture.

Well that was an exercise in cognitive dissonance--I'm like 90% on board with FA, but I'm still a chickie who wants to lose weight and thinks that this site helps a lot of people get healthy, be it through the behaviors they learn and get support for here, or the actual poundage lost.

Counting Down- congrats on your 95lb loss!

I'm not at all delusional when I say that I dieted my way to nearly 400 lbs. I firmly believe that I would have stopped gaining the moment I stopped crash dieting - because that's what happened. I found FA in the 1990's and have to say that the philosophy was very appealing to me at the time. I gave up dieting, and I didn't gain weight (and didn't lose weight). I kept a stable (but far too high) weight for several years. Then I hurt my back and returned to dieting and subsequently lost 60 lbs, but then gained 100.

This time, I'm trying to find a way to lose without regaining. And for me, that's meant dieting differently. No more crash diets. No more "have to get the weight off, no matter how I do it," dieting. In essence, I turned traditional dieting upside down. Instead of asking myself "what do I need to get this weight off - prefereably quickly," I asked myself "what am I willing to do FOREVER to get healthier," and then do it, and keep doing it regardless of whether it results in weight loss (though so far it has, just a lot more slowly than the "old way."

As controversial as it is, I can thank Fat Acceptance ideology for several wonderful things in my life (at least a couple have even helped me with weight loss).

1. My value is not determined by my weight.
2. I am entitiled to exist, and to participate in life, fat or thin. I do not have to postpone my life until after the weight is lost.
3. I am entitiled to be active. My weight does not have to stop me from doing anything that it does not actually prevent me from doing. I can exercise and be active and don't have to avoid doing so publicly. I especially have a right to swim (water sports is the one activity in which a fat person isn't necessarily at a disadvantage).
4. I am entitled to love and respect, and a social life (even dating) is possible at any size.
5. Weight loss is useless if I do so at the jeopardy of my health. I no longer am willing to "do anything" regardless of the risk and cost. Obesity is not a fate worse than death. So healthy, sustainable habits are far more important than how fast I can get the weight off. This isn't a race, and I don't "win" if I lose 200 lbs in 4 months and then drop dead (or return to old habits when I can't tolerate another day of the extreme methods I used to lose the weight).

This mindset is the what I think is missing from all those who have dieted and 'failed' in the past. I've been that dieter. The one who thought if I lost x pounds I could end the diet and somehow stay at the weight I reached without actively working at it. Or exercising like crazy or having an unrealistically restrictive diet so I can get the weight off in y months. I would agree that this behaviour will not work LONG TERM.

I think what many obese/overweight people need to accept is that yes, we are fighting against biology but it does not have to be an all out gory fist fight to the death. What I have discovered is that it can be a gentle push here a little jab there and if I just keep on and fight each battle as I encounter it then I believe I can win the war.

Kitty

I think articles like these are dangerous. Because it's telling people who are overweight/obese that it's not their fault and basically just stay obese and happy because it's nothing you can do about. It also discourages people who are trying to lose weight or have lost weight that you'll wind up fat no matter what you do.

The writer points out that majority of people who lose weight re-gain the weight. But what the writer fails to mention that the reason for that is that the majority of people who go and lose weight do not about it the right way. Most people go on diets which restrict a certain food group (or some diets restrict all food together and only allow liquids). If people were educated on weight lost more and stop dieting people would be more successful in keeping excess weight off.

And I believe dieting does make you fatter. psychologist was found in their studies that when you restrict yourself of something your brain starts to want that thing more. Many diets today are impossible to stick with on a long term basis. I remember when I was on the South Beach diet i craved carbs like crazy. Then when I got off the diet and started to eat carbs again my cravings actually stopped and now I don't even have bread everyday. I eat it in moderation.

The key to weight lost in moderation. It's OK to have a slice of cake every once in the a while. But if you have it everyday then yes you are bound to gain weight.

I do think there are some people who are genetically pre-disposed to being over weight, but I also believe that people are what they eat. If you eat a bag of Cheetos and a half a chocolate cake in one sitting, then guess what - you will get/remain over weight.

There is no secret to weight loss. It's all about setting your mind to it and doing it. Cut back on what you are eating in some way and exercise. Ta-da! Weight loss!

It may be harder for some than others, but I think that anyone that actually tries can do it. JMHO.

Can you tell I was crabby last night?

I agree with helwa that the article is dangerous and I think that's why it irked me so. I just think of all the times that all I needed was an article like that to give me permission to give up on myself. I personally have never done any crazy diets. I've done weight watchers every time. And as long as I stick to it, guess what? It works! There has never been a time in my life when I couldn't figure out why I gained weight. I gained it because I had an unhealthy lifestyle. My previous weight loss attempts failed due to relaxed efforts, follow by a full-on return to that unhealthy lifestyle.

I do belive that I'm biologically predisposed to gain weight. But by that I mean my genetics might want me to weigh, like, 180. I really don't believe I'm meant to weigh 259 or higher! If someone is happy with their weight, that is a-okay with me. Good for you. But don't tell other people they can't lose weight because their biology won't let them. Don't tell me I'm going to fail!


*edit- I might still be crabby

My biggest beef is with some of the sources that are used with the whole Fat Acceptance movement.

The 95% of diets fail statistic that is so often quoted by people was taken from a study in 1959. Where Dr. Albert Stunkard and Mavis McLaren-Hume gave 100 obese patients a random diet, sent them home and said "Go for it." Dr. Stunkard himself says "That was state of the art in 1959," he added. "I've been sort of surprised that people keep citing it; I know we do better these days."

While there has been research done to show that a large majority of people do regain dieted weight, it has all been done in hospital or university programs. Dieters like the ones here, who find their own program and do it on their own are said to have a higher success rate. (I would cite all this but I am too new to post links. It's from a NYTimes article.)

Granted, with all that said there are a lot of things I value about Kate Harding and the Fat Acceptance movement. I think that it is important to be healthy at any size, and more important to accept people for more than just a number on a scale.

While weight may be predetermined, I didn't reach my highest weight over indulging in healthy foods. There were days when I could put away an entire sleeve of oreos. All those cookies (and cakes, and pizzas, etc) added up and regardless of genetics got me to where I am at.

Thanks, guys! The post on Jezebel had some hate-filled things going on in the comments section (including some tough sarcasm from the author). Your diverse, reasonable perspectives are so lovely to see!

I think loving your body at every size is pretty helpful in weight loss. It's easier to stay on track when you feel like you are nurturing, rather than punishing, yourself, y'know? I hate the way that it seems like everything complicated has to devolve into a spy v. spy thing. Everyone must lose weight! Weight loss is impossible! These messages don't really move us forward.

And my size was largely due to carbs, candy and couch-potatohood. I was definitely not an overeater, but now I get in my servings of fruit and veg. Leaving aside the weight loss factor, I'm sure I'm better off eating fresh, unprocessed food and exercising, right?

You guys rock!