Hi, Everyone,

Here's my "official" version of the fable:

The Hare and the Tortoise

A hare met a tortoise one day and made fun of him for the slow and clumsy way in which he walked.

The tortoise laughed and said, "I will run a race with you any time that you choose."

"Very well," replied the hare, "we will start at once."

The tortoise immediately set off in his slow and steady way without waiting a moment or looking back. The hare, on the other hand, treated the matter as a joke and decided to take a little nap before starting, for she thought that it would be an easy matter to overtake her rival.

The tortoise plodded on, and meanwhile the hare overslept herself, with the result that she arrived at the winning-post only to see that the tortoise had got in before her.

Moral: Slow and steady wins the race.

This comes from a book handed down from my grandmother to my mother to me. The book is so old it doesn't have a copyright date or an author/editor's credit.

That fable has been the motivation for us turtles for about three years. Someone on the ancient WW forum mentioned the fable and I discovered it was very motivational for me. I talked about it in posts and other people said that the tortoise philosophy worked for them, too. So, I started a thread for us turtle types.

We work toward accepting that our bodies have a natural speed of weight loss when we choose to live a healthy life, instead of "going on a diet". Many of us have experienced "the diets" as go on/lose weight-- go off/ gain the weight plus more back.

We choose to perservere with each choice we make throughout the day. We believe that choosing to be slow, steady turtles helps us to learn the skills we need to in order to lose and keep off the weight. Our main focus is to become the healthiest people we can be.

So, welcome to all who realize that losing and maintaining a weight loss is a lifestyle change. And who want support as we all learn the skills we need to successfully make the changes that will allow us to reach our goals.

Lin

Hi, Turtles,

Well, I've had weird things happen before, but this is the first time my post has disappeared, only to be replaced by an ad. ACK!

Judy, your persistence is awesome. You keep on going and you'll get there. Hope you and your friend had a great time.

Erin, most authors complete one book a year. A few might do two. The only exception I know of is category romance. They sometimes manage three or four, but there books are so formulaic and sheer fluff that it's not all that hard.

This may take even longer, depending on whether it ends up being one three-part book or a trilogy. It's getting more complicated as I go along. My main character has three distinct goals to reach and I'm not sure one book can do this tale justice.

Your nutritionist said that it might take a while. Maybe it just hasn't been long enough. After all, you were eating too little for an awfully long time.

I'm still OP, but up a pound. It's water. I'm in super PMS mode and I can feel it. One pound isn't all that much, so I'm just sticking to the challenge and I'll probably see a pretty large drop sometime in the next couple of weeks.

I'm trying to learn the Dvorak keyboard. My typing is going to be so bad for a while. But my hands and wrists are starting to ache sometimes, so it's worth the effort. Everyone I've hear of who types a lot and has switched says it really makes a difference.

Hope to hear from the rest of you turtles, soon.

Happy turtlin'!

Lin
272/252/246/final

Hi, tortoises.

Lin, what's a Dvorak keyboard? I have an "ergonomic" keyboard from Microsoft, and it has made a big difference. I love it. It's shaped kind of like a V. As for the PMS weight -- we're in the same boat. I've been completely OP and am getting in lots of good, hard workouts (more than 5 hours this past week). I had dropped an additional pound from even my last weigh-in, but I've gained it back -- PMS bloat. As you say, it'll drop off plus more soon. WAY TO GO on this challenge, by the way! It has really energized me as well. That and finding out I have high cholesterol!

Plenty of authors take much longer than a year to get their books done. Sounds like you have a good idea where you want yours to go.

Erin, sorry you're not seeing results on the scale yet. Didn't your nutritionist say it would take a while, that initially you might gain? Also, you added points at the same time that you cut back on your exercising. That might stall you out as well.

Judy, sounds like you are working on getting the food in your social life under control. Why don't you take the turtle challenge -- stick faithfully with the program for two weeks, and see if that helps you regain your momentum? It has done wonders for mine.

Kathy, hi!

I'm really starting to think about hitting goal in the foreseeable future. I have about 42 pounds to go until I hit my WW goal of 144, and about 48 or 50 to hit my personal goal of 136-138. Given my long-term track record, I believe I could be at WW goal within a year and a half, easy. (I have been losing about 30 pounds each year, except for my one year where I gained and lost the same 16 pounds and ended up at a wash.) That's exciting to me! And what's more, it seems highly do-able and realistic.

I really, really want this. I want to do everything I can to live as long and healthy a life as possible. It's funny; when I was younger, appearance was my big motivator when it came to weight loss. But now, although appearance enters into it, nothing motivates me like my health. Appearance only takes me so far, but concern about being healthy really kicks me into high gear now. Must be a sign of advancing age. (And, I like to think, advancing wisdom!)

Well, this is "my" weekend (DH and I alternate who gets to decide what we do each weekend; it has really helped), so I'm going to go hang out on the front porch with a good book. Next weekend (and the two weekends after that), my mother and dear stepdad will be here, so things will get crazier.

Onward and downward,

Lauren
274/186.5/184 by August 4

Hi, Turtles,

Slow board this weekend. I just got back from the grocery store and need to rest my legs before I tackle some dishes and cook dinner. I'm still OP, but feeling fat, anyway. I know it's PMS, but it makes me feel better to gripe a bit. Thanks for letting me rant.

The Dvorak system is a regular keyboard, but the keys are laid out differently. You can find pictures of the layout online. The most commonly used letters, including all the vowels are on the home row. The next most commonly used letters are the easiest to reach keys. Some people claim you can type faster. I'm not sure about that, but it's main purpose is to help cut RSI's.

I'm looking for a cheap typing tutor that teaches this layout. I need to go to a computer store next weekend when we're in San Jose because I think I can find one cheaper than the shareware versions. I just have to check the packages and find out which ones allow you to set the keyboard layout. Their ads online aren't clear. I have a demo of one, but it's kind of expensive, online. I might be able to do better in Silicon Valley.

You can buy Dvorak keyboards, with the key layout on it or buy stickers to put on your keys, but I've found that it's just as easy to use a separate paper with the layout because I don't look at my hands when I type, anyway. I have an ergonomic keyboard from Logitech and I absolutely love it. I don't want to give it up and since the layout is software driven, I don't have to.

Windows includes the drivers on their CD and it's easy to change. But, you have to get them off the CD every time you want to change it, which is a pain, since I share the computer with three other people, none of whom are willing to switch. I think I saw some shareware/freeware online that bypasses the CD and allows you to set it up using software. Need to do a bit more research on that one, though.

Thanks for the encouragement on the book. I'm working harder than I ever have since I started this class. It's because I'm making real progress, not just floundering around on my own trying to figure it out without any decent feedback.

My body is ignoring my brain. I can see that I must start working out more than I want to if I want to be successful. But my body is not happy about that. I think, though, that I will wait until after TOM to up the workout level. Meantime, I shall continue to walk. I told my dh that I wished he would walk with me because he walks fast enough to push me. But he's lazy. (His words, not mine.)

Have a great weekend, everyone. Happy turtlin'!

Lin
(272/252/246/final -

Hi, Turtles,

I want to check in today and let you know how it's going. I'm still OP. I need to go for a walk in a while. I have an errand to run.

I lost three pounds. This reminded me that the weight loss shows up on the scale when it darn well pleases. That's the total since I took Lauren up on her challenge and it showed up all at once after about a week and a half.

I'm keeping up with my class, but not doing quite as well with my dare challenges. I realized that some of them are areas of my writing that I can't work on right now. So, I'm writing what I can and the word counts will go up as the month goes along.

Hope you all are doing well. Happy turtlin'!

Lin
272/249/246/ final-

Lin,
Three pounds down is fabulous! I bet you're thrilled that you took the Lauren two-week challenge. It seems like you're making more and more things fall into place in your life and that's a very good place to be.

Mousie,
Hey, please know that we're all rooting for you. This is a tricky time when you need to eat more to lose weight. You will need to trust and put in the time. I am sending you happy vibes to encourage you to get out there and fly a kite and do all the things with dh that make you happy. You'll get through this and finally see a weight loss. I promise.

Miata,
Hey, it's sure fun having you back posting here. You always have a nice, upbeat attitude.

Lauren,
You certainly are making progress with your weight the way I would like to. I am reading your responses very carefully. At one time in my life I would have been horrified if I thought I could only lose 30 or so pounds in a year. Now I realize that that's a pretty high goal for me and 20-25 will be more realistic. However, that doesn't mean that I can go off the wagon as often as I do. I am realizing more and more that I really am a social butterfly and almost everything involves a meal at some point. I am aiming to get closer and closer to WW and today was another good day.
Tomorrow I'm heading to my friend's house for some catch up chattin and I'm bringing something op for lunch. She is watching her weight also and is going to have some kind of a shake. We're really good friends and this is what we've decided to do.

I'm serious about this and wish you all well!
Judy

Hello All!!! I am back after a few days off. Went to a slumber quillling party and had a bunch of fun...I did pretty good too. I ended up weighing in 2 days early because I was not going to be home on Sat so put me down for a 1.6 weight loss!!! Yea.... I will don't know I f I will weigh Thur or Sat this week. I have both days off so it would be either one..Prob depends on how I feel I am doing...I will do the challange to the best of myability. I will journal, drink water, stay within points, exercise like a mad woman, and do good!!! My personal goal is not to eat between meals unless I get so hungry I am about to pass out. No just eating casue I think I am a little hungry. I can alway go a few more minutes, and If I eat a nice meal, I should be able to hold off till the next meal. Now If I start getting a little crazy, I will eat but I will choooose sensibly.

You guys are just doing great, and Iam glad I am back. Have a good week..

Kathy

Hi, tortoises.

Yesterday I did something I haven't done in about 15 years -- got drunk! It wasn't intentional. We were hanging out with friends, discussing some difficult stuff, and out came the scotch. Now, I love single-malt scotch, as do these friends. Once we got started, we just kept right on going! I drink so rarely that it didn't take much. I was still loopy when I got up this morning (and hung over, too). It was a lot of fun, but I probably won't do it again for another 15 years (at least).

It sure pushed my points up. Amazingly, I had banked enough to cover it. But I doubt I'll lose this week. TOM just arrived today, too, so you can imagine what a lovely morning I've had. I've about bitten DH's head off several times. (He's home today, not surprisingly.)

Lin, WOO-HOO on those 3 pounds! I'm so happy. Danged if this program doesn't work for us when we follow it, huh?

Judy, yup, you certainly are a social foodie! Not that I'm one to talk after last night. Those smaller annual losses do add up, don't they? I told myself from the beginning -- do I want to lose quickly, or do I want to lose permanently? Not what do I want to weigh one year from now, but what do I want to weigh 5 years from now? 10 years from now? When I look at the bigger picture like that, losing 30 pounds in a year (or 25, or 20) doesn't look so bad.

Kathy, good for you on the loss!

Well, best get some lunch. Have a lovely Monday, everyone.

Onward and downward,

Lauren
274/186.5/184 by August 4

Hi, Turtles,

Judy, being a social butterfly is a good thing. But, social life means food for everyone all around the world. So, for us, that means learning to manage it. You've made progress and I know you will continue to do so. Those little bits of progress add up to big pounds. It just takes time.

Kathy, 1.6 pounds gone is fabulous. Congratulations!

I do wonder, however, if not eating anything between meals is a good idea. That means 4-6 hours between meals. That's a long time for most people, which is why we get hungry and eat. If you remember the post of the things people did to lose weight from that CNN program I watched--one of them was eating 5 meals a day.

IMHO-one thing that causes problems with eating between meals is that most people eat fairly large meals then choose "snacky" foods like candy, cookies, chips, popcorn, fruit, all simple carbs that can cause blood sugar spikes. Plus most of them are high in calories but they don't leave you full until your next big meal so you get tempted to eat more.

One key to eating more often is to make the foods more balanced--fruit and a small wedge of cheese, a half sandwich, veggie soup with an ounce of chicken tossed in, etc. The other key is to make your regular meals a little smaller.

Doing that, according to the research, helps people lose weight. When I eat that way and follow the rest of the WW program. I lose weight much more consistently and am not as hungry as when I do the three large meals and snacks or nothing between. BTW-how to do it is in one of the WW booklets you get at your meetings. I forget which one.

My last thought about this is if you are happier with meals and snacks, why would you try to go against your natural way of eating? Only eating three large meals is just a social custom, not a rule that will help you lose weight or be healthier or anything. They used to think so--back in the diet days. Anyway, it's all something to think about, anyway.

Lauren, you've got me beat. I've never been drunk or had a hangover. Except for about a half glass of a good wine with a meal, I don't drink. It's because I don't like the taste. Nasty stuff, alcohol. I cook with it, a little, and only if I'm cooking the alcohol out. Hope your head feels better.

I'm still OP. I decided to officially start another challenge next Sunday--sort of the beginning of a week. How long do you all want the challenge to be? Do you have any specific challenges you want to go for or is it best to stick with staying OP? (My vote (just for the record) is to stick with staying OP. That's what I need to do right now. But I'll go with what the majority needs to do.)

Happy turtlin'!

Lin
272/249/246/final-

Hi Turtles. I'm feeling more normal and more steady as the days go by. Recovering from a broken heart takes time, but it seems to be happening. I've been spending a lot of time alone and quiet.

Kathy, yay for your loss! Told you so. Just gotta get up and keep trying, right?

Judy, I wish there was a butterfly icon, it would be yours. As it is, can we just change your name? "socialbutterfly" sounds cute. Seriously, I think it's great that you planned with your friend, and that your friend supports your efforts. It's so often that our friends don't want us to change in any way, and work against that. Good for you.

Lauren, drink water! Seriously, my DH explained to me that the headache from a hangover is because your brain is dehydrated. Whenever I drink I have a personal rule that I must drink an equivalent amount of water, and I've never had a bit of a hangover. I hope you're doing better, and I'm sure you enjoyed yourself. My DF loves scotch, also. Last Christmas my DM got him a bottle of 18-year-old Glen Fiddich, his favorite. He was in heaven. I think maybe 1/10 of the bottle is gone, he rations it out quite strictly.

Lin, 3 pounds wow! I'm impressed, congratulations!

According to the scale today I've dropped 2.5 pounds since saturday morning (where I was stuck for the last 4 months). Now, do I believe this? Not likely. I fully expect to bounce up next week. I'm saving my pennies to get a handheld body fat monitor, so I can track that personal statistic. I've started reading and posting on the menshealth.com boards, they're full of solid, useful information. Of course, they can't figure out either why my body is not responding. But I've got more energy, and I'm getting hungrier more often (which means I'm burning all the extra calories, which means my metabolism is cranking up), and I've even had a few days (just about every other day) that I haven't needed a nap. So even though there are no physically obvious changes, there's physiological things happening. So I just have to keep going and hang on.

Take care of yourselves, Turtles, have a good day!

Hello, tortoiseans.

Lin, about the challenge -- for me, it'll be to stay within my points each and every day. I'm determined to get to 184 by my birthday, to 179 by Labor Day, and to 174 (my 100-pound mark) before we go to the Adirondacks in October. The birthday one will be tricky, since I've just decided to go to a family reunion the weekend of my birthday! This is my dad's family. My mom and her husband are coming here to visit the end of this week. So it'll be family time the next few weeks for me. If you don't hear as often from me after Thursday, that'll be why. Things will get back to normal on August 6.

Back to the challenge. Any time period is fine for me. Maybe make this a Labor Day challenge? The two-week challenge is helpful to get us back on track, I think, because it's short and doesn't seem so daunting. But once you're on track, I think longer challenges work fine.

Maybe we could each of us set our own goals for the period between this weekend and Labor Day. Maybe it's staying within points, maybe it's exercising 3 times a week, maybe it's eating 5 fruits and veggies a day.

As for eating 5 vs. 3 meals per day ... I find I do best with 3 meals per day, and at most one snack. That's not what I usually do; it's what I do when I lose weight best. What I *usually* do is eat 3 meals plus 2 snacks per day. That works OK if the snack is fruit or sometimes Smart Pop. When I eat more often, I tend to eat more. As we've said in the past, the beauty of the WW program is you can adjust it to fit you.

Erin, I'm glad you're feeling better. I'm also glad you saw a nice loss this past week. I suspect you're on the right track, in spite of your suspicions. Persevere! Thanks for the water tip re: drinking alcohol. I actually did drink a lot of water that night, though -- more water than scotch, actually. I suspect part of my headache was hormonal. The dizziness and loopiness wasn't, though! Gack. I'm usually more like your dad -- I make scotch last for a looooong time. I maybe have 1-2 drinks per YEAR normally. Ah, well.

Yesterday I ate at the bottom end of my points -- wasn't really intentional, I just didn't feel like eating a lot. Today I've been hungry, which is often the way that goes. I'm up a pound this morning on my official weigh-in day, and I'm sure most of it is hormonal, since overall I'm within my points for the week (and got in 5 hours of exercise). I hope to see a nice loss next week.

Onward and downward,

Lauren
274/187.5/184 by August 4

Hi Turtles...It sounds like all of us are doing pretty good hun??? Hip hip horray for the turtles!!!

Lauren...I do drink, and being on a food plan where you have to count 3 points for a beer!!! it is awful!!! I actually don't drink that much, 2 beers every once in awhile. I keep planning on going out and really tying one one..guess what??? I never do. I didn't do it in Hawaii, I didn't do it in Louisana with my daughter, we even went to a dancing place and planned on taking a taxi home, but I stopped early cuase I knew we were going to to New Orleans the next day and that ment a lot of driving. I did have this hurricane drink that came in a great glass that I got to keep in New Orleans it actually got me buzzy, but it also gave me a head ache the next day.

My quilt for the college show is coming along..Thank goodness for my artist friends. I layed my very boring quilt down and they suggested I put a big and little circle in the big squares (appliqued down..never done that before) It is looking really nice, and when I get the black and white borders on...and more circles it will really look spectacular. I am very pleased.

I did not get to the gym yesterday. Had this funny thing on the inside of my leg. It looked like a hanging skin, but I had never saw it before and it hurt sooo bad...It hurt all around and it esp hurt when you moved it..I noticed it last week when I was exercising. Anyways since it had not gotten any better, I decided to go the dr. (should have just showed it to a nurse at the hospital since I work near the er..but ...) He took one look at it and said it was a wart, then he said no.....it is a tick..Yes a TICIK!!! isn't that icky??? he took his tweezers things and took it out. I had no idea that was what it was. My leg is getting better. DD and sil have come to help husband put away wood, my job is to take care of dogs..stay out of the way, so anyway I will get to the gym tomorrow after dinner.

Eating going well, will have dinner out but will not eat dessert, they will, but I will not. I am drinking my water, and I will take the challange too. My challenge will be to stay within my point range. I will add the other stuff but my main focus will be to stay totally within my point range. So far so good for today!!!

Well better go...

Kathy

Hi, Turtles,

Hey, Erin, congrats on the 2.5 pounds. Glad you're feeling better about this.

Lauren, your experience about what you usually do vs. what seems to work best for you actually was my point. WW is flexible enough that you can eat as often as your body needs to when you follow this program. You seem to be getting hungry between meals and instead of fighting it, you could eat a point or two less at mealtimes and then plan that extra snack. It is hard for most people to eat three meals and no snacks. Anyway, that's my opinion, FWIW.

You're probably right about the hormones. Plus, our appetites do fluctuate-hungrier on some days than on others. I think you'll make those goals you've set since you're sticking with your plan so well.

Kathy--Ticks! ICK! I hope you feel better soon. {hug}

Hmmm, I'm doing points, too. Sounds like we all feel a need to keep better track of our food these days.

I had a difficult evening yesterday. I was hungry, but had used up all of my points. I ate one thing I shouldn't, but then, before it got totally out of control, I ate something sensible that I like and that would get rid of the hunger. So, even though I went over points, I handled it better than I have been lately.

Today, I've been eating low in points. Not as hungry. That's what usually happens, if I pay attention to how hungry I am. So, I feel pretty good about how it's going.

I spend the day working on the HTML document. I want to get a certain amount done before I get too much farther into the book. If I do this well, I'll have all of that worldbuilding and research organized so I can find it easily as I'm writing. It's going well. I could be done, if I was willing to settle for white pages, black text, and blue links. But--the artist in me gets bored, so I'm spending a little extra time making it pretty.

Happy turtlin'!

Lin
272/249/246/final-

Hi, Turtles,

I had an interesting thought this morning as I was contemplating breakfast. I realized that there is still a form of "diet" behavior I indulge in. It's not a helpful one.

What I realized is that I've been eating two slices of toast in the morning because the bread is only one point per slice. So, I've been eating two because I have the points available to do so. Not because I need two to satisfy my hunger. So, I ate one, figuring if I was hungry, I could make another. I wasn't hungry. So, I'm asking myself how often do I choose how much food to put on my plate because it has X number of points instead of choosing based on how much food I need to satisfy my hunger and meet my basic nutritional needs?

The "diet behavior" is thinking and acting as if I'm being deprived so I must eat as much as I can within the program to make up for it. Well, I don't feel deprived, and I'm not actually being deprived of anything except behaviors destructive to my health. This behavior isn't productive. So, I'm going to work on paying closer attention to my hunger signals and eat accordingly, as long as I hit my minimum points.

I'm still OP. I banked a few points yesterday. If I end up doing that for a while, I would reverse bank those points I ate on Monday. But since I will need some banked points for this weekend, I'll just let my little slip go. We're taking my youngest son out for his 18th birthday.

It's killing me. His birthday is tomorrow and I won't see him until Sunday. He was NOT happy. He wanted to do a big whoop-de-do on his birthday. I understand, but with Paul's work schedule it wasn't possible. So, with his usual adaptability, he arranged a group of his friends (one with a birthday on the 21st) to have a little party after summer school. We're calling him tomorrow night, but I won't be the same. Sigh!

Have a great day! Happy turtlin'!

Lin
272/249/246/final-

Hi, tortoises.

Lin, good insight about falling into diet thinking -- "I have the points, so why don't I eat this?" I ended up seeing that big time yesterday. I was very hungry in the morning and early afternoon, so I ended up eating two very large meals for breakfast and lunch. I kept wondering what on earth I would eat for dinner, since I had only a couple of points left. Then it dawned on me yesterday evening: I wasn't hungry. At all.

I ended up eating just a banana before going to work out last night, and that was plenty. I didn't get hungry. Even this morning, I wasn't particularly hungry (though I ate a moderate breakfast anyway). So yesterday I ended up eating two meals and a light snack, and that was fine. The diet mentality would've told me I had to eat dinner, because doggone it, it was dinner time! I'm glad I didn't listen to it. Thanks for the reminder.

It also pointed out for me once again the benefits of following the WW program, where eating two meals and a snack is perfectly fine, if that's what works for you that day.

It occurred to me that our first turtle challenge ended on Monday. During those 14 days, I was over my points only once (the scotch day), and I had banked enough to cover it. I also got in on average 5 hours of exercise each week. This makes me VERY happy and very pumped to keep going. Nothing breeds success like success! It's been too long since I followed the program this faithfully. I really feel great.

Today I go to the doctor to talk about the high cholesterol. I want to know what my options are. I wish I were less nervous about going to see doctors -- I get so tense! It isn't rational, but I guess my disaster thinker kicks in and expects bad news each time I go. Gack. I'm trying to recast my thinking so that I focus more on taking charge of my health (which is what I'm doing).

Lin, I remember the old days when writers used index cards to organize their novels. I'm glad you're having fun with the HTML and keeping your skills sharp. Happy birthday to your son; that must be tough not being with him on the actual day, but I'm glad you'll get to see him shortly. I haven't lived near my mom my entire adult life, so she has missed most of my birthdays. Ah, well. We enjoy the time we do have together.

Kathy, I had a tick once, when I lived in Virginia. Our dog used to get a ton of them. They're totally disgusting! Glad your doctor pulled yours out. It helps to wear long pants, socks, and shoes when you're in tall grass; your doc probably told you that. Bug repellant might help, too.

Hi, Erin and Judy!

Onward and downward,

Lauren
274/187.5/184 by August 4