Alright so I just sat down with a prospective trainer today and while he seems like a genuinely nice guy, with a good sense of humor (not to mention nice to look at!) who wants to get the job done, when he was feeding me some typical trainer lines of muscle weighs more than fat, that we should be more focused on watching the pounds of fat go down more (and increasing lean body mass) than worrying about the pounds on the scale I couldn't help but think to myself: MORON!!!! Are you really just uneducated or trying to feed me crap to get me hooked??? A pound of fat weighs the same as a pound of muscle! Muscle may be more dense but a pound is pound is a pound!!! And it's all well and good if I'm losing pounds of fat but if the scale isn't also going down something is wrong. You have to have both going on. He was also trying to discourage me from going to what he considered too low a percentage of body fat. I want to be anywhere from 16-18% body fat and he was trying to tell me that was on the lower end and that only fitness models and such had body fat percentages that low and it's hard to maintain. If it's so hard and so low why would Jillian Michaels say that she ideally likes to see her women around that percentage too??

I mean I haven't seen the program he's developed yet or done any kind of exercising with him yet so I can't judge his abilities to push me or produce results. So my question is do I just drop him based off of things I don't like that he said? Or should I try it out and see what the work outs are like since there are limited options where I live when it comes to gyms and trainers? I'm just a little unsure.

if it's jus an issue with what he's said why not bring up your arguments with him? If he's any good at his job and knows what he's talking about he'll anticipate the issues and will have answers to them too

Most trainers know what they are talking about- but most people don't know what the trainer is talking about when the trainer says it. I've seen my old trainer explain things that go right over people's heads- so he probably was trying to explain things in an easier way- it doesn't always come out sounding 100% to the people who know, but I'm sure he knows what he's doing.

IMO a huge measure of a trainer is how he or she looks- was he fat or fit? My first trainer was fat and I dropped him after one session. I said if I want to aspire to be like my trainer- then I can't have a fat one- maybe other people like that- but sorry- not me! Maybe that sounds mean- but when your profession is based on making people have fit bodies than you should practice what you preach

To be fair to your trainer:
1. BF% below 20 ARE incredibly hard to maintain for most women. Our bodies just aren't meant to easily go -that- close to the "bare minimum" level to maintain normal body function of 10-12% (men only need 2-4% for normal body function). You're wanting to go to a performance athlete level of body fat. Which is a fine goal, and I'm sure a trainer can help you get there...but he was probably guarding against the hundreds of people who come in with no concept of what a "healthy" body fat percentage is and give him a goal with no research. And as for Jillian wanting her girls to end up there...well, sure. But she's really hardcore and aims everyone toward performance athlete levels. Which is fine, but not sustainable or realistic for everyone.

As for the "muscle weighs more than fat" issue, I see this a LOT more from male trainers than from women...because, for men, the hormones are such that they CAN build 5 lbs of muscle in a month with hard work, negating a 1 lb per week fat loss. You might consider pointing out that girls don't have the hormones to do that. I think also think that the people who say "Muscle weighs more than fat" are just being imprecise in confusing density and mass. Muscle IS more dense than fat, which means it weighs more per unit volume. They just leave off the volume part. I'm not sure the statement is a logical issue so much as it is a lack of verbal precision.

I'd give him a chance...I'd be MUCH more worried if he started talking about how he didn't want you to "bulk up". If he's openly talking about BUILDING muscle, that is, IMO, a good sign.

Trainers see people come and go so often, I think it would be a frustrating job. He can't know, right off the bat from meeting you that you ARE a success story in the making. It sounds to me like he's just trying to keep your expectations real and start simply.

For instance, I started seeing my trainer once I got to about 230 pounds and was babbling on about wanting Linda Hamilton arms. She kind of smiled at me like I was a stupid child and we proceeded to get down to basics. Before I could get bigger guns I needed to peel off a substantial amount of body fat and improve my general fitness considerably. She brought me back to Planet Earth - gave me smaller goals with shorter time frames to work with. She didn't want me to be disappointed after 3 weeks of training, like she sees so often. I kept my lofty aspirations in the forefront of my mind, while following her routine and goals - because I knew they would eventually get me there.

As time passed, we could further develop our goals because she was better able to see where I was going - that I meant it. I'm now the biggest success story she's had in her 30 years of training. But when I started, she couldn't know that, nor did she make unrealistic promises. She just wanted to help me get into better shape.

I met with another trainer for a complimentary session at my other gym a few months ago- and conversely he started on how he could get me into competition shape in 6 weeks. How unrealistic, what an incredible turn off for me. His pitch was obviously a hard sale, I doubt he cared about my fitness.

Give it a shot, if your personalities click - with ANY trainer both you and they will have to prove themselves first. You have to start somewhere, and unfortunately you might have to start with trainers 3 or 4 or 12 times before you find 'The One'. I don't think a simple sales meeting can accurately determine how it will work. Only hard work and time will. It's a lot like dating, I guess!

Ultimately you will want a trainer who genuinely cares about your fitness and doesn't promise the moon in order to make a sale.

I probably wouldn't buy into a package deal until you're positive he's the right one - and that will take some time.

Amanda- Well, I did tell him that I wanted to I wanted to return to competitive gymnastics so me wanting to have a BF% of that isn't that extreme for where I want to go. I know what you and he are saying since the 10-12% being the bare minimum and hard to maintain for women, but like I said if I am back to a level of competitive gymnastics, I don't see that as being a problem to maintain. Maybe it was his lack of listening or my lack of emphasis but it's probably something that could be worked through.

And as for the muscle weighs more than fat thing, I guess I should have clarified with him that I'm not the typical person and I do have a greater understanding of the weight loss process than the typical person. Maybe I just need to convey that better.

Also, I just wanted to know what you mean about the "bulking up"? I really don't want to build too much more muscle because when he did the body composition analysis, and depending on the setting I had anywhere from 127 to 131 pounds of lean mass so I really don't need add too much more. I'd like to maintain as much of it as possible though I do know I'm going to lose some because he said it's natural to lose about 1 pound of lean mass for every 10 pounds of body fat.

Beerab- He was actually very fit. Very nice muscularity.

FB- I did some thinking and I may give it a try with him and try and base it more off of the results and how he pushes me rather than what he was saying. I can understand not wanting to promise the world but he could've seemed a little more supportive of some of my goals. I guess he does just want to start slow. I wasn't planning on buying a huge package or even joining that gym for very long. I was going to sign up for maybe a month and do a couple individual sessions with him before I make the final decision.

OK. Only because I have seen this decried all over the place. And people called morons for stating it just irks me to no end.

WHERE is it implied that the unit of measure in the statement "muscle weighs more than fat" is a pound?

To me it clearly is implying a unit of volume in which case the statement is quite correct. A (cup, cubic inch, square foot) of muscle weighs more than a (cup, cubic inch square foot) of fat. Which is a correct statement

On its own with no definition of unit the statement is neither true nor false but merely incomplete. We use incomplete statements in our lives on a daily basis assuming that others will have a similar assumption on the incomplete material which hardly makes us all morons.

I see where you're coming from ennay. I guess what irked me was that he didn't qualify it. And the other thing that irked me was the he was more focused on dropping pounds of fat which is all well and good but overall weight loss is my goal and the fact that he was trying to diminish that and my other goal of having a specific body fat percentage bothered me. He didn't flat out tell me these things weren't possible but the fact that he downplayed it bothered me a bit. I guess it was also my fault in not speaking up against it because this is new and I don't want to get started on the wrong foot, but I will have to work through some of this stuff if I work with him (or any other trainer). I think we just have to have more open communication on both parts and he has to listen to me as well.

Oh no I understand, my trainer was the same way...I think its their canned speech to keep people from quitting on them when they dont lose weight quickly.

You just got my ire because I think its about the 10th time someone has said the statement is false in the past week! And its the kind of argument I used to have to teach people to dissect for entrance exams. (- what information is implied or what is assumed to be true but not told the reader explicitly.)

Yea, I'm just one of those people that I just rather have you shoot it straight with me. I know my body and with all of my hormonal imbalances (PCOS/insulin resistance and hypothyroidism) I know my body has a mind of it's own when it comes to weight loss. So while I do momentarily get discouraged with what shows up on the scale sometimes I go back and remind myself of what my body is like and I just continue on, but he doesn't know that so that's probably why he was feeding me all that crap. Anyway, I'll see how it goes. I may try out the other few gyms in the area and go from there.

I am confused about why you specifically say you want to lose "weight" versus "fat"?

It's not that I'm looking to lose more weight than fat, it's that he seemed more focused on losing the fat than overall weight and I think there needs to be a balance between both. The measure of pounds of body fat going down need to also correlate to the scale going down in general because I don't want to just stay at my weight right now. I want it to go down especially for wanting to return to gymnastics. Even if my lose x amount of pounds of fat and I'm still carrying around 200 some old pounds of weight in general that's not going to help me in flipping myself around the (gymnastics) gym. I just need it to be both pounds of fat lost and overall pounds lost. That's all I'm saying. It needs to be both not one over the other.

I think we're all confused by what sort of "weight" you think you would be losing besides fat. Your body is composed of the following elements, all of which contribute to your weight:
1. bones, organs, and other similar vital stuff
2. muscle
3. fat
4. water (which I believe is stored in muscle and fat cells, but not 100% sure)

I assume you don't want to lose any interal organs, bones, or other vital body parts. And water retention an up and down thing that we don't always have a lot of control over. So that leaves losing fat or losing muscle.

At this point in your weight loss journey, I really think you want to be concentrating on losing fat. You have about 100 lbs to lose to get to your goal. There is simply no way that you can lose 100 or so lbs of fat and put on 100 lbs of muscle at the same time, unless you are taking hormones and/or steroids. So if you lose that much fat, you're going to see the scale go down. Heck, I think you're going to see the scale go down even with a loss of a lot less than 100 lbs of fat. Also, losing muscle is not going to help you get to your goal of 16-18% body fat.

I could see where, if you get close to your goal, your body fat% is less than say 20%, and you still weigh more then is considered ideal to be in gymnastics, at that point you might need to look at losing some muscle. But you are a ways from that point and there's no guarantee it will ever be an issue for you. It is entirely possible that you will be able to get to an appropriate weight for gymnastics just by losing fat.

Haha yea it does seem really confusing now that you put it that way. I know for a while that I'll be losing pounds of fat until I get down a lot lower and that I won't be just trading fat for muscle without some sort of crazy hormonal help. But the thing is for me is that with the PCOS I have a higher level of androgens (male hormones) in my body than the average woman so I carry a lot of muscle and build muscle a little more quickly than the average woman. So the thing I'm not crazy about is building anymore muscle than I already have since I want to be as lean as possible and not too bulky.

Like I said, he used a little gadget to measure body composition and it had two settings: normal (for people who aren't really active) and athlete (for people who work out more than 3 days a week) and based off of the two I was measured 41% BF for normal with about 89lbs BF and 127 lbs lean mass and on the athlete setting I was 36% BF with 78lbs BF and 131 lbs lean mass. So at this point I really don't want to gain anymore muscle since my lean mass is already a lot higher than my goal weight and I just want to drop the fat. He said that for every 10lbs of fat shed your body loses about 1-2lbs of lean muscle so that would put me close to my goal weight but with very little room for fat (not that I want a whole lot but I know I do need some to function). So basically I want to lose most of the fat keeping around only what's necessary and try to keep the lean muscle up as much as possible while the overall number on the scale goes down. That's the kind of weight I want to lose. I hope that's clearer.