I know this has been part of discussions regularly so apologize for recycling a topic. I started seeing a new doctor last week (I call her the witch doctor because she's a naturopath. then again I have a weird sense of humor ) and she was concerned about my calorie intake vs. exercise. She thinks I should still be losing (I'm not trying to) but I'm not. I think, based on everything I've read here and elsewhere, including Thin for Life, that maintenance after a lifetime of obesity has its own rules that are different than for someone who has never been seriously overweight.

My daily caloric intake is between 1300 - 1500 and I get at least an hour of cardio in at least 5 days a week, at least one 90 min. yoga class, work with hand weights, and some targeted stretching/strengthening for my back & abs. At that level I maintain. If I change either of those things I gain (I learned that the hard way by regaining 6 lbs in the fall).

What do other maintainers do?

Cyndi, do you mean she thinks you should be losing more weight, that you're not at a healthy weight? Or does she think that you should be losing more weight based on your calorie and exercise levels? I think you mean the latter.

I do think the once obese (as I was, morbildy obese in fact) have a whole different set of rules, then non-obese folks. Meg's got a great sticky on it in fact. Explains perfectly why we're different. How our bodies are just WAITING to pack those pounds right back on. Righ back. I'll search for it.

I have to keep my calories waaay down, not even 1400 calories, in order to just MAINTAIN my loss. Much less then other folks are eating. While still frequently exercising. I hear of people maintaining on 1800 calories, 2000 or even higher. Sadly, this is not the case with me.


I'm glad that this woman *thinks* you should still be losing. But you have proven that to not be the case. And I think it's perfectly "normal" for YOU. And YOU is all that matters here. No one can tell anyone what one should or should be losing at or maintaining at. We've said it dozens of times, "we are all experiments of one". As we all know, we've got to figure out the "correct" numbers all on our lonesome. Which is what you have apparently done!

One thing though, you may want to increase your strength training. Adding muscle will allow you to burn more calories, and therefore consume more calories. And look sleeker while doing so.

Yup, maintenance calories for a "reduced obese" person don't follow the rules. Our active metabolisms (the calories we burn through activity, exercise, and everyday living) are about 20% lower than a person of the same height, weight, age, and gender who was never overweight due to our different biochemical/hormonal status. There's a lot of discussion about the science of weight loss and metabolism in Gina Kolata's Rethinking Thin and we had a book discussion about it in the Maintenance Library if anyone's interested.

In a nutshell, it means that the person next to us on the treadmill is burning more calories than we are, even if we're putting in exactly the same effort. It stinks, but what can we do?

The average maintenance calories for members of the National Weight Control Registry are about 1400, with an hour of daily exercise. That's an average and of course, there's a lot of individual variation. And we sure see that here in the Maintainers forum! I think there's probably a 1000 calorie range that our members are maintaining in. No wonder there aren't any "rules" about maintenance!

For me personally, I maintain on about 1400 calories and 90 minutes of daily exercise, divided between cardio and weightlifting. Like you, I most definitely gain if I increase my calories or decrease my exercise, as I've learned the hard way over the past seven years. But I'm 54, post-menopausal, and hypothyroid, so I probably tend toward the lower end of the maintenance calorie range.

ETA: just read Robin's post -- this is the sticky she's talking about: Some Answers About Genes, Environment, Obesity and Maintenance

Robin - She's reading it as an indicator that something may be off somewhere. I do use hand weights, usually 5 lbs but am hesitant to add more because of a few bad disks that I don't want to annoy. I'm all about the muscles these days and occasionally get caught admiring them I'm still experiencing a sense of awe about my body - the way it looks, what it can do - it just amazes me.

Thanks for the feedback. I knew I had researched this all thoroughly when I started but wanted to verify with the experts

I think your experience is similar to the experiences of other formerly obese people. Doesn't mean something is off, but I would be interested to hear what she thinks might be "off". You have found what works for you, it sounds like. Keep us updated, if you don't mind.

Cyndi, Meg was kind of enough to find that sticky. Read it. My mouth hung open when I first read it. VERY interesting.

Yeah, there's nothing *off* about it. Thems just the facts. Yay us!!! We get to consume less. Oh well, it's worth it. ANYthing is better then being obese gain.

It is kinda sad though, that the medical profession is not aware of these factors. We really are on our own. Just one more reason I am so grateful to 3FC.

I'm with you on admiring those muscles. Oh how I love them! I feel the same way about my body - how it looks and what it can do - amazing to me. Simply amazing. So yes, lower calories and all - so be it.

You know, I must say I was shocked when I first started reading the maintenance forum here (I've been mostly a lurker for a long time ). Technically, I've never been obese (though almost) and I'm able to maintain at about 2000 calories a day and no exercise (uh... not that I'm proud of that part). I lost 37 pounds 13 years ago, maintained for 5 years, regained about 12 and have maintained for almost 8 years. But when I regained those 12 I was eating like a cow, way more than 2000 a day. I've been trying unsuccessfully to lose those 12 pounds for years. I feel like a huge whiner every time I come to this forum because these amazing ladies are working way harder than me just to maintain.

The sad reality is that there are very few of us "reduced obese" and even fewer studies done about us. After I lost my weight, I had all sorts of questions for my PCP ranging from excess skin to metabolism. She apologetically couldn't answer a one of them. I was and am her ONLY patient to have lost this much weight, let alone kept it off. She now routinely recommends that her obese patients have WLS because she's given up on trying to convince them to lose weight with diet and exercise. How sad is that?

Meg, this is exactly the case with me. I also had lots of questions, she was not able to answer a one of them. In fact, now, she asks ME questions.

My doctor actually told me that she didn't think it was possible for me to get off all the weight that I needed to without surgery. Not possible? Not possible? It saddens me and angers me.

I weighed 200 lbs at my highest weight. For about 3 years I maintained at around 1800 calories a day (plus a weekly treat meal) with no exercise. I am glad I enjoyed those 3 years, because I think now that I'm 39 that fun ride is ov-ah! For the last year, for the first time I've struggled with 5-7 lbs I've never had to really fight before. I've now added exercise to try to get back under my goal weight of 130.

My doctor also thinks I should be wasting away on what I eat and the amount of exercise I do. She routinely explains STARVATION MODE to me (hahahah!) and I routinely explain that I'm NOT starving on 1350-1450 calories, that is my maintenance range with a lot of cardio and weight training. Like Meg, after nearly seven years, I'm quite sure that I gain on more food or less exercise. The sad fact is that as I get older, that number gets a little lower every year. And my body has hit the point where I can't really increase the amount or intensity of the exercise without injury BTW, my doctor is female, 38 years old, 5'11" and thin.

Mel

Wow how fascinating. I didn't know that. Do you think this would still apply if you lost weight at a young age (say, younger than 25) and were only 'obese' by about 3 or 4 pounds before slimming down, Meg?

I like to think of it with a positive slant. We are the true Energizer Bunnies. We can keep going and going and going while those never-obese folks are fainting because they have run out of fuel. And if there ever is a food shortage, we've got it made!

Jay

Mazza, I don't know but it's a good question. I'm not sure it's ever been studied?

I know from reading Rethinking Thin and various studies that our bodies have about a 30-40 pound weight range that they feel comfortable in -- - what we usually call our "set points". It seems that we can manipulate our weight within this 30-40 pound range fairly easily, but when we try to go outside this comfort zone, our bodies tend to fight back with increased appetite and decreased metabolism, all based on biochemical and hormonal cues. Our bodies try to defend their weight and return to their norm, which works great in times of famine but not so good for those of us trying to achieve a healthy weight today.

There's no doubt in my mind that my body would be quite comfortable at 250 pounds and would like very much to go back there. Ironically, it's not normal for my body to be a "normal" weight! Which is why I need to exercise more and eat fewer calories than a never-obese person to maintain my current weight.

Obviously this is an area that's crying out for more research. The complexities of obesity and the roles of genes and environment have only begun to be unraveled.

Mazza, I was almost what you're describing. I lost weight when I was 25/26 and I was 5 pounds below "obese". That doesn't apply to my case.

Wow, that big a range? I thought for me it was more like 10-15. This is interesting.