The title's fairly self explanatory isn't it!
Im already vegetarian, very strict ethical vegetarian (i only eat free-range eggs) but i feel like its not enough!
not from an ethical point of view, i dont have any problems with dairy farming etc, i just feel like i want to get dairy out of my diet!
So what im wondering is, does veganism work well with dieting? will i be using up more calories on dairy substitutes (i would need them for my tea and cereal) than on real dairy?
Also, does one end up eating more healthily as a vegan because the fattier foods are limited? because i do not eat healthy at all at all and thats something i want to change!
So any thoughts at all would really be appreciated!

Well, you can eat a crappy diet as an omnivore, vegetarian, or vegan. There are lots of non-dairy beverages to choose from, many have fewer calories than cow's milk (not to mention they’re free of cholesterol and saturated fat ). The key is (like with any other diet) to make sure you don't consume too many calories, balance your macronutrients (fat, carb, protein), and try to eat whole foods instead of processed foods. There are great vegan nutrition resources available on the web (just google it). "Becoming Vegan" is a great book to start with as well.

I applaud you efforts to eat a healthy and ethical diet. You might want to read the sections here about egg laying hens and dairy cows. I’m only posting that link because there was a time when I didn’t know and I sure wish someone had told me. Also, some more specific info on "free range" birds.

i second what shananigans wrote about anyone can eat crap even vegans. i'm making the transition to vegan right now as after being an ethical vegetarian it is the next logical step (see links left by shananigans).

i'm still counting my calories and after only a week or so i feel better already. the transition is a process as there are lots of things that aren't vegan in the house that i never gave two thoughts to (um, like my kashi cereal, granola, bread, etc. etc.) i use Silk Plain Soymilk Light which only has 70 cals per cup on my cereal. i don't even remember what cow's milk has but i think this is less cals than nonfat cow's milk, difference is one is much more friendly eating healthier is all about making smart choices and that'll be up to you.

the first thing i did was hit up my local library and checked out "The Vegan Sourcebook" by Joanne Stepaniak and "Vegan Planet" by Robin Robertson. Get a good cookbook, too. I bought "Vegan With a Vengeance" which is cool, but I am still looking for something a little more simplified--the grocery list in the front helps though.

feel free to ask any questions, irishrover, as i am submerged in literature and websites at the moment and can share anything with you if needs be.

I'm really glad you put that link up shananigans. Usually when I buy eggs I get them cage-free or buy egg-beaters, but sometimes I get regular. After reading the articles I definitely decided that any egg that I use, cook or eat will be cage free. I actually bought soy-milk the other day instead of my usual fatfree milk just because, and again after reading about the dairy cows I've vowed to never buy cow milk again. I love soy milk and eggbeaters so I know I'm not going to miss these things.
Thanks for your help on my transitioning from a lacto-ovovegetarian.. to a vegetarian =]

ollie27 - I am reading and trying to figure my way to a vegan diet. I would appreciate some of those links and recommendations!

I was raised on the SAD (Standard American Diet) so I HONESTLY don't even know where to start with planning a daily menu. This also makes me vegetable shy and a bit picky. I KNOW my tastes will change as I stick with it, but I'm kind of at a loss where to begin.

I have read several of the recommended books, and I am working on a couple of others. Sitting next to me right now is How It All Vegan and in the other room is a Vegan Microwave cookbook that I am looking forward to reading next.

But are there any sites that give great suggestions for a daily menu? I'm also looking for some great slow cooker recipes. I love my slow cooker!!!

Thank you!

Thanks for all the great advice, ive started doing a bit of research and im looking forward to feeling healthier and confident that my food will be all cruelty free!
Just one question, which is probably a very silly question, but:
whats the story with bread? is it safe to assume that pre-packaged bread is not vegan-friendly?

puglver - cute pug! i had one when i was a wee little girl.

i was raised like you as well and we even raised most of our veggies and some of our meat, but every thing was cooked with butter and lard. and lots of it. (and i use to say my family has the fat gene--i think we just passed down butter instead of genetics) dude, butter on EVERYTHING! so basically i am having to teach myself to cook. i'll post some of the links that i use and there are tons of links and recipes in this veg forum alone. one that i like to look at related to dairy is www.godairyfree.org also www.govegan.net is good and one that i have found with great simple recipes is www.fatfreevegan.com also www.caringconsumer.com is a site that has a list of all animal ingredients and also lists of companies that test on animals. there's a few more sites but i am not trying to overwhelm. search through these threads as well.

the fat free vegan site has a recipe for "sloppy joe lentils" that are cooked in a slow cooker. i'm trying that one out today. i cook a lot with my slow cooker and used www.savvyvegetarian.com when i left out meat but have noticed they have a lot of simple vegan recipes for the crokpot as well.

also when i went vegan i already had all the reasons but just as one last reminder i watched earthlings. you can download it here http://veg-tv.info/Earthlings

whew!

irishrover - my first trip to the store as a convert i spent most of my time looking for bread. it seems like most have eggs, milk or whey--which is a by-product of milk. still haven't found a vegan friendly bread that i like so i am open for suggestions from all you seasoned vegans.

ollie27 - thanks so much! I love my little pug, she is sitting here next to me right now.

Thanks for the links. A couple I have visited, but I will explore the others when I get home tonight. I HAVE been overwhelmed by everything, so I need to go back to some of those that I have been to before. Did that make any sense?

That is one thing I really need to try out - more bean recipes. Guess I should find one that looks good and dive right in. How did your sloppy joe lentils turn out?

Earthlings - I don't know about that! I listen to Vegan Freaks podcast and they mentioned it. Sounds a bit harsh from what they were saying!!!!

Thank you again! I appreciate the help!

not sure, it's in the crockpot now. i'll let you know. smells delish tho!

EDIT UPDATE: man, these are soooooo good. and it took all of 5 minutes to throw in the pot. yummy. http://www.fatfreevegan.com/crockpot/sloppy.shtml

Glad you like the soy milk so much, I love the stuff. But...um, you may have missed one of my points a bit, might want to read the second link up there specifically about free range.

Also, the ingredients in egg beaters are:

So if you are concerned about the welfare of chickens, buying free range or egg beaters doesn't really solve any problems in my humble opinion.

I am not trying to tell anyone what to eat, just want to help get some information out there to help with informed decisions. I know at first it can seem totally overwhelming and confusing. There's a lot of information and misinformation out there, but after a while you tend to get a good sense of things and can make the right decision for yourself based on the fact and what you think.

Re: Earthings - If you're going to watch it, well, just know that it is intense. It's the truth, and in this case the truth really hurts. I watched it in January, and I'm pretty sure some of those images are burned into my memory for good. But I did learn and see some things that I was completely unaware of and it made me even surer of my convictions, so I guess it did serve a purpose. But if you're already sold on the vegan thing and are really sensitive to graphic material you might want to skip it. It might also be a good idea to split up the viewing into a few segments, it's very emotionally exhausting to watch.

Are there any eggs welfare friendly, besides having your own chickens of course?

No. Even if you found a company that was committed to treating chickens well (no debeaking, no forced molting--through starvation--to increase egg production, etc), AND you could believe their claims (most claims about good treatment are just lip service--and there is no legal mechanism in the United States to back up these claims or hold companies accountable if they don't tell the truth) they would still be selling the chickens for meat when they were "used up." There isn't a retirement home for old chickens--and they live far less than their natural life span because of the cruel way they're used. Additionally, I don't believe there is a single company that doesn't kill the male chicks--there is simply no use for them in commercial egg production.

Chickens produce eggs for reasons that have to do with the continuation of their own species. When we turn it around and make it about creating food for us, we do them incredible harm.

Everything I've learned since I went vegan has been an eye opening experience. I didn't realized how naive (or rather "I don't want to know") I was about consuming animals and their byproducts. It isn't necessary for a healthy diet. It is a personal choice, and I have ZERO REGRETS. Truly, if I can do it, anyone can. If you truly want to not consume animals products, it's a commitment but it isn't very difficult.

The best advice about going vegan I can tell you is to just do it. Dive into it and learn from experience. Yeah, you might be living off of peanut butter sandwhiches, fruit, and frozen veggies for a while but you'll learn. Invest in a few vegan cookbooks or look at any of the dozens of vegan blogs online and you'll catch on quick. That's what I did and I've never looked back.

If you do decide to watch the movie earthlings, be prepared with a box of tissues right next to you. I watched it with my husband and I don't think I actually *watched* most of it. My face was burried into my husband and even just the words and the mental images of what was being said was too much for me. I watched the whole thing, although I don't think I would have been able to if I had actually *watched* it.