I posted this in another thread but I thought I'd like a thread dedicated just to this topic.

Perhaps you will relate to my story. Maybe not. Either way, I'd like your thoughts.

I am a person with a lot of body fat. I am large. I am beautiful. I am healthy.

These truths are NOT mutually exclusive.

Not only do I know that I am beautiful and sexy (right NOW, today, as I am) but I also know I am healthy.

My doctor agrees (about the healthy part) and my partner agrees (about the sexy, beautiful part ).

Here are my latest stats:

My blood pressure? 118/67
My cholesterol level? 138 (with high good and low bad)
My waist to hip ratio? 0.68

I can work out for 90+ minutes daily, no problem, be it treadmill, yoga, swimming, aqua exercise or a combination of them.

I am healthy.

I am.

No one exists amongst all the studies on "obesity" and risk factors for disease that have been done that fits my lifestyle profile, thus far.

I've searched and there aren't any long term studies done to substantiate risk factors for organic vegan fitness enthusiasts with a high percentage of body fat versus people who eat a SAD (standard American diet).

I tend to think there would be a difference, don't you?

Here's what a "morbidly obese" active, strong, vegan with the above stats looks like, people. "Morbidly obese", right?

I put this in the 300+ forum for a number of reasons.

1) To give this area some love.

2) My stats were much the same when I was 300+

3) The pic is me at around 276 pounds, able to exercise and work in very physically active and demanding jobs (massage therapy and personal chef).

4) I want other "morbidly obese" viewpoints.

That being said, as with ALL of 3FC, all are welcome to (respectfully) respond.

I voted "Not Likely".

It is physically possible. 98% of the time, it isn't the case.

you're pretty; i have the exact same shirt and pants! keep on being as fit as you can!

Thanks Sweets! (I love New York but haven't been where you are at yet).

I agree that it isn't common but I cannot be the only one out there in the other 2%.

Like most people in the minority, it is frustrating as **** to me that so many assumptions are made about obesity and judgments are made so quickly about larger people.

Let me put it this way. I don't think it's a myth that some obese people can be physically fit.

However, I don't think we're being sold lies, either. I mean, we're being sold generalizations...but almost everything has an exception.

While I think that the medical community needs to acknowledge that those people in the 2% exist, I don't think that most treatment recommendations should be based on that very small minority.

I compare it to penicillin. I'm deathly allergic to penicillin. The last time I had some (the first time I had a reaction), I very nearly died. I am an exception. My doctors, knowing that, treat me differently than most patients, which is fine and medically appropriate.

However, given that most people are NOT allergic to penicillin, doctors should treat with that assumption until proven wrong...just because 98% of the time, that assumption will be correct.

You have, effectively, proven yourself to be an exception here, with your medical test results. But the presumptive medical treatment should be that an obese patient is one of the 98%...and should therefore be given treatment and medical advice based on that until proven otherwise. Just as, if I didn't wear a medic alert bracelet, I'd be given penicillin in the hospital if I went there in an emergency.

So is it true all of the time? No. But no one is being sold lies, either, in my opinion.

Edited to Add: This is different than ignoring a medical condition that is not weight-related because a patient is overweight, which is never excusable. Doctors should always exclude non-obesity causes for a problem before assuming it is due to weight.

I think to a certain point it is possible. I used to be really active in high school playing basketball and tennis at 350 pounds. I'm not as active as I used to be but even still I have a normal blood pressure and cholesterol level. Everytime I go to the doctor the nurse takes my blood pressure and says surprised "Blood pressure is normal?" At this point the reason I'm losing weight is to change my appearance, I don't have any illnesses that made me want to change I'm just tired of the way I look. I took a health class in college and my teacher said that it is possible, there are overweight people that do marathons and all kinds of things.

Not a simple answer, because both fitness and fatness are relatively defined. They're not a "one or the other" type of variable like gender (usually) eye color (usually). You're not either fat or slender. Either fit or disabled. They're linked, but not in an algebraic way in which you can determine a person's fitness by calculating their fatness.

The fattest people are not going to be the fittest people. Although neither are the skinniest. Being 70 lbs underweight (which you could accurately call "morbidly underweight") is just as life-threatening, and incompatible with fitness as being 200 lbs overweight.

The fittest people, the very best are probably going to be pretty close to their optimal weight. But how many people are going to ever reach their optimal fitness level? 50%? Certainly not. 20%? Highly unlikely. 5%? I don't know, but I'd guess probably not even. There's always going to be some room for improvement in fitness.

So fitness is a package of health habits (and lack of unhealthy ones), genetics and environment. Clean environment as free of polutants and carcinogenics as possible, low stress, good nutrition, good mental health, regular exercise, good social relationships, good decision making skills.........

How much of an impact body weight is going to be in relation to all those factors, is going to vary tremendously from person to person based on all of those other components of fitness, and probably a host more that haven't even been identified yet and a fair bit of chance to boot. A chronically unemployed alcoholic chainsmoking five times divorced, mentally unstable, meth-addict with a family history of diabetes, heart disease and cancer livng on burgers, snickers bars and fish pulled from a PCB and mercury polluted lake, living on a toxic waste dump who considers the walk to the mailbox their "daily constitutional" (let's call this person Pat)..... ideal body weight isn't going to make "Pat" fit, and a few extra pounds are the least of his/her problems. Heck, morbid obesity is probably fairly down there on the list of things to do to improve his/her health and fitness level.

Can a person be fatter than average and yet be fitter than average? Most definitely, yes. A lot fatter than average and a lot fitter than average at the same time? Going to be a lot less likely. Can a person by slender and a complete physical mess? Certainly. I think it's why we can't let "thin by any method" be a motto. I think even for the super morbidly obese, we have to be a little wary of assuming without proof that weight loss at any cost, by any method offers a guarantee of health/fitness improvements. Crack might help an extremely obese person lose weight (assuming they survived the "treatment"), but I'd not consider it a health improvement. I think it's why at any size weight loss is never the only factor to consider. Leaving an abusive relationship, dropping addictive substances, moving more, eating more nutritiously ... no one needs to be under a certain weight to improve their fitness level by making these changes.

I think the important thing to remember is that much of what determines fitness is going to be somewhat uncertain for ourselves, and even less identifiable for strangers. We can't see many of their healthy/unhealthy situation/habits/behaviors, and we can't see their genetics, etc. So if someone says, "I'm fat, but I'm fit," before jumping to the conclusion that the person is deluding themselves we have to acknowledge that they may be a lot more fit than a person who "looks" fit, and while they may not be at optimal fitness, before throwing stones a person should ask themselves if they themselves are as healthy as they could be, are they as healthy as they want to be - not to mention whether they're as fit as the person they're wanting to criticise.

I think fatness is focused on to a degree that other fitness-impairing factors are not, because it's very visible. As an an overweight or even very morbidly obese person with more good habits than bad, trying to improve your health and fitness with weight loss, exercise, nutrition and and any other "good things" you need.... it can be extremely frustrating to be lectured to by the "Pats" of this world on how unhealthy your excess weight is.

So, to wrap up, I firmly believe extra fat can be impact fitness, but it's not the only factor that impacts fitness. How much extra fat (or even how much fat IS extra fat) before it becomes a fitness issue? I have no idea, I'm sure it varies alot from person to person based on all the other fitness factors, but I would bet it isn't 5 lbs. For me, I'm sure it's not less than 150, but that doesn't mean I can't become fitter until I lose every one of those 150. It also doesn't mean I can't become fitter without losing even a single pound.

(Yeah, it's a novel, but I think it's a very complicated question with thousands of shades of gray).

I think it would be easier to accept the idea of a morbidly obese person being (and staying) healthy and fit if there were more (or any) morbidly obese 70, 80, and 90 year olds walking around. It's very uncommon to see very heavy elderly people. I think an actively morbidly obese individual can be fit, even fitter than a normal weight counterpart, but it doesn't take away from the fact that having extra weight around vital organs, muscles, tissues, and bones will eventually be in some way detrimental to one's health. There have been numerous studies on the dangers of having fat where it shouldn't be. It would be interesting to see a study on the subject, to track the health of an active obese person vs. a non-active thin person. The thin person MAY be unhealthier, but they also may not be. But in my opinion, regardless of their current health, I think the end results will be similar for both; the poor eating habits/inactivity of the thin person and the extra weight of the heavy person will eventually catch up to them and have a negative impact on their respective health.

I agree with mandallin about the generalizations and assumptions. People can't tell the difference between an active obese person and a non-active obese person. The main causes of obesity are overeating and inactivity. And for the majority of obese people, both play a factor. So the general population assumes that the average obese person who is walking around eats too much and doesn't exercise. It's difficult to back off from these stereotypes when there is such an overwhelming majority who actually do fall into the main category of being overweight and out of shape.

Sure. Right now. But how old are you?

And will you be as healthy in 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

Will you even be alive in 20 years.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy the myth of the "healthy" fat person. There is more than just what your stats are now. The amount of weight you carry around will affect you long term. It will affect the amount of weight your joints will be able to bear in 10-15 years, the health of your spine, the health of your feet.

And what about your blood sugar level and your insulin? You don't mention that. Is your blood sugar level stable? Overweight people are more likely to develop diabetes in their 40s and up.

And that padding of fat around your organs HAS to have a detrimental effect on your long-term health, no matter what condition you're in now.

I think if you try to justify being fat, then you're just playing mind games with yourself. Ultimately, long-term, no matter what spin you might want to put on it, being fat is unhealthy.

Admitting to anything else is lying to yourself.

IMO, of course.

.

I am 35. How old are you?

I sure HOPE I will be alive in 20 years. Do you? Well, piss on us, we could both be hit by a car like my partner's physical therapist friend was today.

We can't tell if we will be here in 20 years and more than just body fat percentage and weight factor in to that.

Blood sugar? Stable. Sorry to have omitted that little factoid. My fasting blood sugar level was 82. As I said, my doctor thinks I am very healthy and I agree. I take NO meds at all, there isn't so much as a Tylenol in my house.

I'm not lying to myself. I am just tired of people assuming that just because I am larger than the average person I am instantly unwell and unfit. Obviously I have been and will continue to lose weight and reduce my body fat percentage (or I wouldn't be here, would I?). I am just saying that I am quite FIT during the process too, despite ignorant judgments people often make and the opinions they hold against me and my fat counterparts.

Oh, you edited it.

I am NOT trying to "justify being fat" or "playing mind games" with myself either. Why would you say that? What is your intent? If I wanted to "justify" any such thing, why would I continue to drop 1-7 pounds a week, consistently? That is illogical.

I think its very complex, and a continuum as well.

I think it is probably healthier to be of a normal weight and a good fitness level than it is to be of a higher weight and a good fitness level. That being said, I think it is probably healthier to be overweight and a good fitness level than normal weight with poor cardiovascular fitness. So it's complex and all factors should be considered by physicians in setting goals and treatment plans.

I'm sorry but I have to agree with Photochick.

Granted, I'm not in the 300+ club (my high point of overweightness was 200 pounds when I should weigh 135), but I did try the same arguments with myself...sorry if the following is a little blunt but these are some of the arguments I had with myself. I had to be brutally honest with me in order to see results and make commitments.

I'm junoesque, voluptuous.
No, I am just fat. Using pretty words won't make the truth any different. The cellulite on my thighs is disgusting, the rolls around my waist makes me look like the pillsbury doughboy, and I'm embarassed to wear shorts and swimsuits (and wouldn't be caught dead in a short shirt!).

I'm healthy and in moderately good physical condition, even the doctor has commented on my low cholesterol and great skin.
No, the disproportionate amount of fat in my body means my body has to work hard...harder than it should...to function on a daily basis. This means my life span is severely diminished. My blood sugar levels are too high. My blood pressure is too low (which makes me get cold all the time). My feet hurt if I walk for long periods. There is no way I'd ever be able to keep up with my oldest brother on a hiking/skiing/biking/insert other activity here trip.
*Please note I am 39 and my oldest brother is 17 years older than I, making him 56.

I could go on but (hopefully) you see the picture here. Please don't get me wrong...I love me. But the fat is NOT me. It's extra baggage that I DON'T NEED. It is good that you love yourself (because a lot of people out there don't), but try to be honest with yourself too.