I have a question for any of you who are familiar with European sizes, specifically Italian. I bought a very, very marked down Italian jacket today, size 44. It doesn't have any American size conversion on it -- it doesn't even have washing instructions! (it's linen so I can tell it's dry clean only - yes, I swore I'd never buy linen again, but - - too pretty to pass up!)

I was curious about the size, so went online to several size conversion sites and got a variety of answers. But the consensus seemed to be that a European 44 is equal to a US size 14. Now I usually wear a 4 or 6, so I'm puzzled. Is an Italian 44 really equal to a US 14? It this particular jacket cut really small? Or is American size inflation so out of control that I really am a 14 equivalent in the rest of the world, just not here?

I'd appreciate any insight or experiences! Thanks!!

PS - it's a whole new experience to shop without being able to refer to conventional sizes. It forces you to buy whatever fits, without any emotional investment in a small size!

Meg, I don't have an definitive answer for you, but there's always the possibility that your jacket was mislabelled as to size. It happens sometimes. Also, American sizes aren't reliable anway (as you no doubt already know), so that further complicates size conversions. For example, at my slimmest, I wore jeans ranging from size 8 to size 14, all of which fit pretty much the same. It depended more on the brand than the size label.

Furthermore, I lived in Europe for a number of years, so I don't feel that sizes can ever convert exactly anyway. The European cut was always big in the shoulders, relative to the bust/waist fit. This was true both in ladies' sizes AND children's clothes (including infant's clothing). In my family we have narrow shoulders, which meant that neither I, as an adult, nor my small children got a good fit in European clothing. By contrast, a German mother I knew couldn't get a good fit for her baby in American clothes, because they were designed for babies that were slim relative to height (as opposed to German clothes that run broad relative to height).

The same goes for European shoes: their "medium" is closer to our "wide".

Ah, the adventure of international fashion!

Thanks, Margarita! That's especially interesting about a European cut being different from American -- I never thought of that. My shoulders are broad, so maybe that's why the jacket fits me so well.

I remember being in a high end store with my sister once and trying on European designer clothes just for funsies. It was an incredibly ego-deflating experience because the clothes were tiny -- I mean really, really tiny! I couldn't even get my arm in some of the sleeves. Regardless of what's going on with my jacket, I sense that we Americans must seem absolutely enormous to the rest of the world.

Just a quick post as I'm running late. There are different sizes here in Europe: British, French, Spanish, German, Italian, etc, etc. I can't remember how they overlap but you can't generalise across the continent.

Good going on the jacket, Meg! My instinct tells me that 44 is big (or at least quite a bit bigger than you, Meg) so perhaps the label is wrong. And that's why it was marked down so much.

In NL a size 44 is around a size 14 US.

However, in Italy a size 44 is probably around a size 8 US. Italian, Spanish and French sizing runs different. We Northern Europeans are more realistic about sizing so a German, Dutch or Belgian size you can pretty much equate the US sizes + 30

Generally a 44 is a 14US but if you break it down country by country in Europe is varies as well. I wish I kept some of my Mexx price tags They usually have an extensive list of sizing conversions listed.

Another reason that it might be way off is Europe is not as apt to change their sizes over time. A 14 30 years ago is very different than a 14 nowadays. I also learned the hard way that the wedding gown industry does not weild to changes either Imagine my shock of wearing a street size 12 and having to buy a size 18 wedding gown!

I really wish there could be some consistency, like men's sizing. Would make my life so much easier!

Edit to add: I just found a nifty converstion calculator, looks like it's a US 10 here. http://www.onlineconversion.com/clothing_womens.htm Notice how it varies between European countries My guess is most companies use French sizing as the "European" standard.

i live in the mediterranean. at a sale i bought 3 tops from the same shop.
one was size 18
one was size 22
one was size 28
!!!!

as I stated in my previous post, the general rule is 44 = 14 (for example size in Europe - 30 = size in US). I don't think sizing is based on French sizing though. You've got different sections of the European continent and here in Northern Europe a 44 is a 44 in Netherlands, Germany, Belgium, maybe even Luxembourg. Sizing starts to get "smaller" as you head for Central and Southern Europe - my size 48 jeans are a 52 in Italy. Why this is done, I have no clue! But it certainly sucks when you are already a larger size in NL and you really can find nothing if you go shopping in Paris because those are REALLY large sizes for that country.

I was just discussing this with my DF - he says "why do all of these countries and companies have to make things so difficult? There should just be standard sizing. Like Levis; 32" waist, 34" length, check!" I totally agree. I just "shopped" Lane Bryant online and my size is indeed different here vs. there - 48 jeans here, but size 20/22 at LB according to my measurements (when the general rule should be 48 = 18).

And definitely the CUT is different here vs. in North America. In the netherlands for example, you are talking about the tallest population in the world. Seriously. I have to buy "short" sizing here, whereas in the US I'm pretty much the standard of "average". People are also more straight up and down; North Americans tend to be curvier. The further south you go... these people are tiny and skinny! I think, for example in Portugal and Spain, the "average" height is around 5' for women! So, yeah, cuts are going to be different everywhere.

My best shopping is generally in Germany - women are curvier, more clothes available in bigger sizes, not too tall, not too short. Luckily I live about 25 minutes from the border and 45 to the nearest Shopping Mall