Im sorry, i gotta step in now, Mottainai

Youve been justifying your binges in your head, calling them "refeeds" (lol) planned binges, etc. They are all still binges. Severe occurrences of overeating and they occur at incredibly frequent intervals. No one needs to "refeed" on gallons of icecream and other treats in such huge quantities to put you at over 5000 or 10000 cals a day/per sitting, 2 or more times a week,
That is not a refeed. That is a binge. Either way its ALL SEMANTICS

You are absolutely trying to justify it. that is absolutely your "animal brain" reasoning with you in such a deceptive way, you arent even recognizing it. EVERYTIME you have a "refeed" or binge you are re enforcing the lifestyle of overeating. You are re-enforcing thats its ok to eat such huge quantities of food, because you are calling it a refeed, or it is a planned binge.

Im not even going to touch on how much energy and attention you give the behavior. (i know you know this )

I am an addict. I relapse whther i trip and fall on a needle, or i PLAN to go get high this weekend because im celebrating.
Or allowing myself to get high every monday, but only on monday, and this will be my routine...

Does that mean i am not an addict? Does that mean i am healed? becasue i am CHOOSING when and how i will abuse drugs? Does that mean i am recovered, and it is ok?

Youre an addict in that sense, as well. You dont do anything in moderation, and soon enough, me *allowing* myself to ABUSE drugs, will catch up/ backfire, and i will be full-blown everyday again.

I can NEVER EVER use, ever again. no matter what.
Is it scary? TERRIFYING. After 7 LONG YEARS of sobriety, i am daily shaken to my foundatioin with thoughts of never being able to go home and just relax and feel content and peace in my high. Forget about my stresses and worries and problems, and just have one more medicated, peaceful moment.
Everyday i have a small panic attack that i dont have a high to look forward to anymore, and to get me through the day.
The exact same way you were consoling and reasuring yourself by promising that youd be able to "refeed" on Tuesday. Just make it through one more day.

Binging is never ok. EVER. Under any circumstance is it ok to do what we do to ourselves, and eat the way we are driven to eat.
is OCCASSIONAL overeating sometimes ok? OF COURSE. Enjoying a meal out with friends, celebrating a holiday. Overindulging.
These are completely different things though, than BINGING.
And i am NOT being judgmental, i promise you. i have binging issues too. So i am not condemning you for doing it. but i AM calling you out on your justifying it, and trying to show you how even planned binging leads to the re-enforcement of the habit, leading to the unplanned binging.

Quitting an addiction is terrifying. You have to give up everything you ever felt comfort from.
Do you want to change your life?
Are you strong enough to change your life?

^^

100% agree

Thanks, guys, especially you Mkroyer, for this. Really!

You know it isn't want I want to hear, of course, lol.

But, you know, that's why I'm putting down my thoughts here. Sometimes an objective outside opinion is something I just can't get by myself.

Am I strong enough to change my life? Do I want to? I wish I could give a definitive "YES!!" Not sure I can yet, though.

But still, I'm very thankful for being called out on my crap justifications. Even I can admit to that! I really do appreciate it.

I'm sorry, everyone, for kinda hijacking this thread away from more positive things!!

Anyway, I'm off on my long vacation, so no worries about me planning binges for a while. We'll tackle this when I get back....thanks again.

It's been a lax few days, though I have felt hunger. I'm finding myself falling into my old habit of counting calories which I don't really want to do but don't know how to not do it either. I'm not eating perfectly but I'm not bingeing. No Bingeing!!!

I know what Mottainai is struggling with, the semantics can be very confusing, especially for those of us who struggle to understand what real physical hunger feels like. I think many of can attest to how uncomfortable it is to feel hunger and for me it's hard to even identify it. The semantics are the animal brain's most powerful tool, let's not forget it.

For those who are trying to implement BOB and struggling, try not to worry. The power to resist urges is a muscle and just like physical exercise, muscle has to be pushed to its limit to see results. You can't exercise for one week and say 'oh I don't see any results so I may as well give up" because that wouldn't make sense. I'm just going to keep going and I don't expect it to ever end because the choice to eat food will always be there. I do expect it to get easier and for me to get stronger, but it will always be there.

Btw, my book just arrived today!! I'm amazed at how much I've changed in the past 10days without even reading it yet.

Good luck everyone! And I wish you all a binge-free LIFE!

Surprisingly I saw a 2.5lb loss on the scale today. I was not expecting that and I don't feel lighter. But to be honest my "fat clothes" have been very tight on me lately and it will be a while yet before I can even fit comfortably in those.

Though I am not bingeing I am all too aware of my dieting-behavior. I'm trying to find a new normal because for as long as I can remember I am either bingeing out of control, or calorie counting. I'm trying not to worry too much but my normal higher brain self seems to be aware of calories whether I want to or not. I'm being careful to eat foods I like, avoid foods that normal people would avoid in excess, and allow myself a small piece of chocolate at the end of the day. I can clearly see that my knowledge of nutrition is very advanced in relation to calorie-intake, balancing carbs/proteins/fat, etc. When I am in binge-mode I ignore that knowledge but now that I won't binge it seems I can't turn off the diet-brain. It's confusing and I'm worried but so far everything has been relatively smooth sailing.

Mottainai, you *are* absolutely strong enough to change your life! I'm sure of it. Now, do you want to? I don't think that one's as easy to answer. I do wonder how my perspective on this would change if I was at a maitenance weight range, like you. At first glance, I thought that would be ideal because you wouldn't be fighting the urge to diet as much; however, maybe that comes with a whole other set of animal brain arguments that are pretty compelling -- (hey, I'm already at a good weight, so one binge isn't going to hurt, *especially* if it's enjoyable... *especially* if it's planned/doesn't have guilt associated.. the list could go on) -- though I agree it's the animal brain talking, I can completely see how it would be hard to sometimes distinguish between what is your true self and what is junk. Even though this does seem like a "quick fix" approach in some regards, I'm realizing it's not. Like somebody else mentioned, it's still a learning process and our brains aren't going to be re-wired overnight. That said, I do believe if we stick with it and don't throw in the towel when we slip, it will get easier. Hopefully you have a good vacation and use it as a time to refocus your mind on other things for a while.

Yeah, I am there too. I've been hyper-aware of calories for SO long, I think it's something I need to deal with . . . but, I'm telling myself it's not totally a bad thing either. As long as we don't become obsessive about it, having awareness is OK. I NEED to be aware because I am not healthy at the weight I'm at now. For me it's more about when the deprivation signals start going off -- which often goes hand-in-hand with the urge to binge. It's a learning process though -- learning where that line is between "being aware of calories/watching intake" and "obsession/deprivation triggering".

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to come clean and be honest that I binged the last two days. I know what triggered an urge and I don't want to over-analyze it/give it any more attention here. Simply put, I started engaging the animal brain and I lost . . .which I guess I always have in the past. I'm dusting off and moving on where I left off though; I went almost a full month not only w/o bingeing but w/o even really having to fight with strong urges. I pushed them aside, but didn't fight. So, I still know this works because in the past, going a month was almost unheard of ... if I ever did it at all.

What I have learned this past week though is I really need to be careful with over-thinking/analyzing things. I was really happy to find this thread and also to know that I'm not alone in finding some comfort and understanding with this approach to bingeing. I am going to still check in here periodically (maybe once a month or so) just for a status update, but I don't think it's good for me to be discussing much beyond that as it's just giving more attention to bingeing and giving the animal brain more ammunition. I do appreciate all of the feedback/discussion here and I wish all of us long-term success with this. Will check in with all of you down the road hopefully!!!

ITA!

In fact, one thing Kathryn said when she first quit was that she just went about life normally, and eating normally; when hungry, and stopping when full, and didn't agonize much over her diet, and the weight she gained from binge eating (55lbs total and 20lbs over her ideal), fell off in about 5 to 6 months naturally, after she ceased binge eating. Without binge eating, the higher weight, metabolically, cannot be maintained. The only thing you have to do to get rid of it is stop bingeing! Amazing, lol

Not focusing on food, weight, calories, or diets, helped to solidify in her brain that a focus on food and weight was no longer needed. Had she been trying to diet the binge weight off at the time, she believes her urges would have gotten stronger, not died down and she would still be stuck in the habit. As it was, she was telling her brain that food no longer needed hyper-attentiveness, so it allowed those neuropathways devoted to those obsessional thoughts to weaken that much faster along with the binge urges.

It seems scary to let go at first, to think without obsessing that we're just going to let ourselves go and get larger, but in reality, it's the opposite. We keep the focus and we keep binge eating, when I know what all of us really want to do is LIVE. Those three months I was binge free were some of the best in a long time. I truly believe a reason I gave in and started bingeing again was because Spring was approaching and I again wanted to lose those last 5lbs to be "perfect" and I re-ignited those pathways in my brain. I should have just left it alone because my body was finally stabilizing on it's own and I was able to eat quite a bit without any weight gain during that time.

I was a normal, stable weight before I ever started dieting (and a non-binge eater!), and I wish I would have left myself alone, because I weigh more now today than I did when I started my first diet. IRONY.

I'm halfway through BOB, and not only has the urge to binge gone away (in a manner of speaking), I can't even lure an urge out with trigger foods. I still think "when I get home, I'm going to have this and that....." but it doesn't feel appealing anymore. And I haven't done it The brain is still working at it but my body seems to be ignoring it. And I'm PMSing! I never really thought of myself as a binger, because I would overeat over a long period of time, rather than sit down and commit to consuming entire boxes, bags or containers of food. It was probably a safer way for me to NOT be able to keep track of the calories.

I brought 3 cheesecake bars with me to work today. I almost had to force myself to bring them. I rode to work with them in the car next to me. I even opened the foil this morning, but I couldn't eat them. I stuck them in the fridge. I'm not even sure I'll have them this afternoon. I could NEVER do that before. I am so tired of feeling controlled by food. It is such a relief to feel like I have let go of it (or it has let go of me) that I could literally cry.

The author's story in BOB is very different than mine, but the idea that I do not have to get to the root of the problem (if there even is one), I can just stop instead and work on retraining my thinking made me feel so much more in control. I don't need the food for comfort - it just makes me feel bad - that isn't comforting.

Yes. Our brains are sneaky.

The last two days I've just been eating without worries, but I know I am still eating too much.

I do think I eat until I am 'overfull' a lot, even if it's not a binge.

I think I'd like to start counting calories again but also trying to eat until I'm satisfied rather than really full or overfull.

I have been having some anxiety and doubts about myself again. It seems the longer I am alone, not in any type of a relationship or even looking, the better I feel about myself and the better I get each day.

As soon as someone I am interested in steps in and expresses any interest my brain starts swarming with 1,000 thoughts, most of them negative. I worry I said something dumb, or looked dumb, or looked ugly, or acted weird...etc.

I thought about it this morning and I really like being alone. I have family and friends and so I think I'm going to just pretend I am still alone and that this person is no different than a friend or family member. Otherwise my brain is consumed with thoughts that just ruin any progress I've made. I just want to start getting better, returing to my daily yoga practice and trying to lose some weight while pursuing my degree.

I was really on the right track about two weeks ago, but this guy upset the balance and I just let it happen.

So tomorrow morning I'll be waking up to yoga and some me-time in the bath. I am going to ignore my phone for the better part of the day and really try to bring back that peaceful place I was in.

I guess it's true. You really do have to love yourself before you can love anyone else, or anyone else can love you.

So I'm reading this book now and the author is describing her binges. While I can remember times when eating was all I did, I can safely say that my binges are nothing like hers. I'm not really interested in eating until I feel sick in that manner. Usually if I go through a drive thru I'll order a double cheeseburger, large fries, 10pices chicken nuggets and large fries/drink. That's about the extent I can eat and I have never finished the fries. But anyone would feel awful after eating that, not just a binger.

For me, binging isn't about how much I can eat, it's about the freedom to eat it without constraint. It's also mainly about the secretive aspect of eating it. At the worst of times I'd hide food in closets, purses, anywhere so my husband wouldn't find it. I'd order take out and then throw away the evidence in the neighbor's trash can. It was very conspiritorial. But not the amount.

Anyway, sorry for the babbling I'm just trying to work out in my head what is and what isn't a binge. I've been feeling so in control of my eating lately but today I was just tired of eating cold scraps of food like peanuts, yogurt, no bread, fruit, hummus/veggies etc. So I had some free time and went and got myself a patty melt with fries. I didn't eat the crust of the bread, and I only picked at the fries, so it was hardly an amount of food that could do damage but I am bothered that I can't tell my husband that I did it. I don't know why I can't, I just feel ashamed for wanting it. I mean, normal people eat burgers once in a while, don't they? I wasn't even over eating. I am not worried that it affected my "diet" but was it a binge? See I'm having trouble identifying it.

Was just reading through the inspirational quotes thread and found one that really fits us here:

"You're not four years old. You can tell yourself NO." - Dr. Phil