You're absolutely right, that's exactly what I think, but it's not out of arrogance or lack of compassion. I used to be a person who took every fat- directed disrespect personally - every comment, look, rude t-shirt, sign, bumper sticker, magazine editorial, online editorial or rant, doormat... and I realized just how pervasive, how massive the war on fate-hatred is. I would have gone insane if I hadn't learned to prioritize, to recognize "the small stuff" to save my energy for larger battles. If you want to spend your energy snuffing out candles while ignoring the forest fires, that's a choice you have a right to make.

... but if there is one place to ignore fat-hatred, if there is one place where it belongs, it's on the bigot's personal property. You want to be a bigot, fine, but leave it at home. You want people to know your warped opinions, that's fine too. You want to post your ugly sentiments, better your doorstep than on a bumper sticker or t-shirt. And even the bumper stickers and t-shirts are probably protected under free speech laws.

Freedom of speech isn't always pretty, but when we force silence, it doesn't make the problem go away, it only makes it fester in the dark.


As for the mother and child, my masters degree is in developmental psychology and I know the difference between parotted and spontaneous communication, but even assuming I'm wrong and the girl's utterances were purely spontaneous my main problem with the exchange wasn't what the child said, it was how the mother reacted. I would have preferred to have smiled at the child and said, "I sure do, don't I!" That's what I would have done, if the mother hadn't jumped so quickly to fierce anger.

My husband and I were eating in a Thai/Hmong restaurant when the owners' 4-year old came by and we invited her to sit with us. As small children do, she began asking every question under the sun, including why my husband and I were so fat. I laughed and told her, "because people come in all sizes and shapes, and because we eat too much." She nodded seriously and then pointed to my husband's arm and asked my husband "Why do you have so many spots?" Spots being the freckles and scars on his arm. My husband pointed out the freckles and said, "I was born with these and they're called freckles. These white ones are called scars and they're healed booboos." She then showed us her healing booboo under a cartoon bandaid, jumped down and asked hubby is she could play with his cane and she walked around the restaurant limping like my husband. She came back, put the cane back where it had been by hubby's side and started to count his freckles (which became a game she and he would play whenever we saw her).

That's how I believe fat should be treated - no different than freckles, scars, or a limp.

As for what a person says or displays, especially in, on, and around their own property, in my opinion (and the Constitution) is their business and should protected. The op has every right to complain to the idiot himself or to the condo or neighborhood association, asking him to remove the offensive door mat, personally I do believe it's a petty battle, but anyone who wants to do so has the right.

I do believe though that stealing or defacing the mat would be wrong (though not terrible) as would be demanding or forcing the mat's removal, because as I stated I believe one's own property is one of the few places one should have the right to display one's ignorance.

I also think focusing on the "small" offenses takes away from the bigger picture and if one wouldn't bother following and confronting the persons wearing or displaying offensive messages on t-shirts and bumper stickers which have the potential to harm more people, then it's hypocrisy to bother with a sad, little man, posting his sad, little sign on his own property.

It's a door mat, which means it's not visible from a great distance. It's easy to ignore and it's on the a-holes property.

If there is a clause in the neighborhood association bylaws, then by all means, complain to the neighborhood association. If he agreed to give up his civil liberties by living in such a community, so be it.

We were stuck in line behind a truck with that displayed in HUGE lettering across the back glass. AT SCHOOL. That was fun to explain to my six year old who is both disabled and somewhat overweight (due to meds and a movement disorder). There is no way to spin or teach it in a way that she doesn't read: You are not welcome here, you, because of something you can not help, are disgusting to me.

At our school, discriminatory stickers, clothes, etc are not welcome. One of the teachers in car line was all over that in about a second and I've never seen that truck again.

I just can't get over what kind of person would display that kind of ignorance and dumbassery for all the world to see.

If there's an HOA, that's almost certainly against the rules. One of the reasons I live in an HOA neighborhood is so I don't have to live next door to a front yard full of rusted out cars or an old lady feeding 834 feral cats or a crack house...or a "no fat chicks" door mat. Take a pic, write your HOA. You owe it to every little girl who has to walk by that crap. If it said, "NO *any other group*" I'd feel the same way. That's why you pay those dues.

You owe it to every little girl who has to walk by that crap.

AMEN

"historically discrimination was overcome firstly by squashing its very overt and very unsubtle manifestations: first slavery was abolished, then segregation laws, etc. "

That's an excellent point too.

If it is trivial to inform an individual you disprove of their flagrant prejudice...is it trivial to be having this discussion kaplods? Why are we still having it if the issue is so unimportant? Really, just property rights and freedom of speech?

Not that I am not enjoying the discussion, because I am. It just seems to me that if correcting his actions is trivial, convincing OP her correction would be trivial is...well...trivial. Certainly she would be doing no more harm than he.

That is an excellent plan. It makes most sense as most condo organizations have strict rules.
Personally I'd be tempted to have an accident involving paint.

What many posters who are in favour of free speech are missing is that this is a condo. In a condo you do not own the outside of your property. It is community property and by living there you give up the right to say and do whatever you like once you go out the front door. In an area of private homes the person would have the right to post whatever they wished on their property within reason but in the condo this is over riden by the rules of the group.

This is something I find very offensive. Twice in the past year I have encountered huge trucks with computer type messages scrolling above the license place with very offensive jokes right at my eye level. Each time I was so thankful that my twin niece and nephew who were just learning to read were not with me. They were at the stage where they were trying to read everything in sight and I don't know how I would have tried to explain it to them.

I don't think discussion between ourselves or with the doormat owner is trivial or inappropriate, just that the idiot has a right to have an offensive door mat, unless he gave up that right.

If we want to get rid of all potentially offensive language, we might as well ban all forms of comedy.

While I've shared my opinion on the topic, I don't expect everyone or even anyone to agree with me (in fact that's really been the point I'm making - that we all have the right and perhaps even moral obligation to discuss, but we don't have the right, except in very specific situations to take the right of free speech away).

I expect people to speak and act according to their principle. I'm not trying to force anyone to be silent or think my way, just sharing my personal perspective.

I've explained what I believe as best I can and why. It's not the only way to think. It isn't necessarily the best way to think. It's just my opinion, and people can take it for what it's worth. I think we wade into dangerous water when we curtail personal freedoms such as free speech. If we're willing to force people to be silent regarding beliefs we find objectionable, it becomes reasonable to create laws that forbid certain types of language and how far is that from a society that makes being different a crime?

Again, just my opinion.

I have a precocious reader with a very tender heart. The things people put on the outside of their cars are astonishing.

The Site here is called 3 Fat Chicks On A Diet....were you are you offended by that?

I do still believe in the Grand Scheme of things this is Petty!
Do you even know this neighbor had any interaction with him?
The Mat could even be a Gag gift that was purchased for him?
You want to stir things for what purpose?
Is being a Fat Chick soo bad?
If someone called be Fat is that an insult ? Or maybe just plain rude?
Why not have a Tshirt that says!!!!
Yeah I'm A Fat Chick...So What!!!
I think that shows pride !
I try my best in life not using my mine reading skills or assign motives to what someone else that I do not know !
Since when did Being a Fat Chick become so bad ?
Know lots of Fat Chicks who are proud of the title and refer to themselves as that...and post on a site that is called by that very name!!!

If you think this is a teachable moment ...when you confront someone...and tell them how to live and what to do....I think your in for a rude awakening!!
If you feel the need to contact HOA...at least Own your actions by giving your name and address....so the person can if he wants address the issue with you to share their thoughts on the matter.

So glad I do not live in a Condo ....And yes I fly an American Flag and have never had anyone complain... DH is a Vet and we believe in freedom of speech....and people can say and display stupid things....that's the American Way
Not offended by Bumper stickers ,Doormats,Tshirts sayings.

Roo2

My pet peeve is the "my kid can beat up your honor student" bumper sticker. What a thing to brag about! I get that most probably aren't actually encouraging their kids verbally to bully and hurt other children, but the bumper sticker can't be a good influence. At the very least it would give the kids the idea that their parent doesn't think they're bright enough to make the honor roll, that the honor roll is for weaklings, or that hurting other kids isn't a big deal and in fact is funny enough to put on a bumper sticker.

I guess that's why I don't see the "no fat chicks" door mat as a big deal. To me, it reflects the maturity level of an 11 year old with a "no girls allowed" sign on his tree house. If he wants to broadcast the fact that he is a big baby in his own home or even on his car, that's easy to explain to kids. Besides which children already know that fat kids and unattractive or unusual children are generally not only ostracised by their peers but that teachers often treat such children poorly themselves. It's sad but the research bears it out time and time again.

By the time I was in first grade I knew there was little use appealing to adults for help when I was harassed by my peers because of my weight because the teachers didn't like me either. The worst bully was the fat pe teacher and when I told my parents about the horrible things the teacher said to me, they confronted him, and he justified his comments as motivation for me to lose weight. And that placated my parents, if I wanted the abuse to stop all I had to do was lose weight. I knew it motivated me only to hate gym and physical activity.

I think children learn early that not all adults are nice and trustworthy. Protecting them from that knowledge can put them in harms way. I'd rather see clues to that fact on the person's property where I can avoid looking at it, as opposed to bumper stickers and t-shirts where it can be harder to avoid.

But even in those cases, we know fat bigots exist and the fact doesn't seem to bother people until it's put into words. The actions don't seem to bother us so long as it's not talked about. We don't seem to care if a man or women would never so much as consider dating a fat partner so long as they don't advertise their preferences. Not dating fat partners or having no fat friends, that's fine, even normal, but SAYING you don't like fat people, well that's outrageous.

Again, I know my opinion isn't exactly common or normal, and maybe that makes me wrong, but I just think that the silent discrimination is far more insidious. The countless ways we allow and even encourage fat-discrimination and fat-hatred so long as the words are said politely or not at all. You don't have to like fat people, you just have to pretend they don't exist.

I guess I'd rather be hated than unacknowledged.

"You're absolutely right, that's exactly what I think, but it's not out of arrogance or lack of compassion. I used to be a person who took every fat- directed disrespect personally - every comment, look, rude t-shirt, sign, bumper sticker, magazine editorial, online editorial or rant, doormat... and I realized just how pervasive, how massive the war on fate-hatred is. I would have gone insane if I hadn't learned to prioritize, to recognize "the small stuff" to save my energy for larger battles. If you want to spend your energy snuffing out candles while ignoring the forest fires, that's a choice you have a right to make."


What larger battles against "fat-hatred" are you fighting?




" And even the bumper stickers and t-shirts are probably protected under free speech laws."


Hate speech is illegal in many countries and in many different spheres.




"I would have preferred to have smiled at the child and said, "I sure do, don't I!""

LMAO, this reminded me of something I got from reading Jane Austen. I can't remember which book it was but there was a part about how you should feel the same way about your self if you receive an insult or a compliment. Like, your sense of self shouldn't be affected by others opinions of you. But, LOL, what if you were hella ugly, and a child neutrally observed this, you wouldn't be like "I sure am, aren't I!"... You'd be like, "Mind ya bizzness, kid." And the mom would be like "OMG, I'm sooo sorry my child is crazy awkward!"

Or a creepy guy in a parking lot like neutrally compliments the shape and size of your boobies, you wouldn't like, AGREE with him, you'd be like, "Uh.... mind ya bizness, freak."

And yeah, I know being called fat isn't always an insult OR compliment, it's more about people being all rude for being up in your self-perception and stuff.




"That's how I believe fat should be treated - no different than freckles, scars, or a limp."

LMAO!!! What if you said that to a plus sized model? She's be like "EXCUSE me!?!" And you'd be like *shurg* "Just being real, yo."




"As for what a person says or displays, especially in, on, and around their own property, in my opinion (and the Constitution) is their business and should protected."


Calling to my fiance..."Honey, set up that giant inflatable penis lawn ornament. We're protected by the constitution!"




"because as I stated I believe one's own property is one of the few places one should have the right to display one's ignorance."


Sooo.... if I burn a cross, it's ok as long as it's on MY lawn....




"If there is a clause in the neighborhood association bylaws, then by all means, complain to the neighborhood association. If he agreed to give up his civil liberties by living in such a community, so be it."


And this thread is done!

"I guess I'd rather be hated than unacknowledged."

Oh, OH. oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Thank you Welcome Wagon Lady

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding how to fight the "silent battle" but if they're anything like what you describe (case in point, the mom and the child at the pharmacy) then I don't think you're finding them accurately either.

"Not dating fat partners or having no fat friends, that's fine, even normal, but SAYING you don't like fat people, well that's outrageous." So how do you find these silent people who don't say they don't like fat people, do you have some sort of special radar that others don't? And then how do you go about fighting this battle specifically?

So what you're saying is that a person's personal property when displaying stupid crap is their protected right.... but a person's inner mind (specifically if their hatred is NOT said aloud or displayed) is fair game and is essentially the real battle?

It's a doormat, not a giant penis. A doormat. You have to be pretty darn close to read a doormat. Who reads other people's doormats from the sidewalk anyway?

If you want to go on a quest to rid the world of offensive door mats, bumper stickers, and t-shirts, have at it. You're going to be extremely busy, but if you do have some extra time why not go after keychains, hey people leave those lying around where innocent children might read them.

And if you have no local laws or ordinances against it, by all means get out the giant penises - Can't be worse than the half-deflated snowman deflated over the backside inflatable reindeer we saw this winter near our home. I wonder how many children were traumatized by the sight of Frosty stupping Rudolph?

The line has to be drawn somewhere and I just don't see a doormat as the place to do it, but if you do, then go right ahead and canvas the neighborhood looking for objectionable doormats.

Heck, if you feel that strongly about it, engage in some civil disobedience while you're at it and steal or deface the doormats, or hey, maybe set fire to the doormats. No, even better, burn down the offender's house, no pour gasoline on him and set him on fire, that'll teach him!

Anyone can play the exaggeration and word-twisting game, but I have no interest in doing so.

You win.