A little bit off topic, but catowned's post really got me thinking. It is weird how much emphasis we place on the success of weight loss. It seems to be more of a celebrated feat than doing well in school or having a child or getting (and keeping) a job or conquering a drug addiction (although this last one is slightly more comparable to the process of losing weight!).

I kind of wonder if the rate of success for losing weight and keeping it off would be a bit higher if we didn't make it so overly important and talk about it like it is some impossible quest.

My husband just pointed something out on the subject of the initial attraction being physical.

He and I met online, while we lived 3,000 miles away from each other. I had only a cheap cracker-jack-box digicam and couldn't even show him a decent picture of myself. Yet we talked for hours (5 straight is the record) and we were in love before we ever met face to face. How does this fit in with the notion that men are first attracted to what they see, then by personality?

Also keep in mind that he is not even my first husband, let alone my first relationship. I never had a problem finding my share of dates. If men have to be attracted physically first, in order to even take it to the next level, then body size must not make as much of a difference to attractiveness as some people think it does.

I dunno, I think we are giving guys the raw end of the deal here, personally.

I don't fault people for being attracted to people who are in-shape or fit. I personally would not have been attracted to my husband if he were morbidly obese when we met. I don't find overweight men *sexually* attractive (though I believe there is beauty in everyone), even though I am obese (double standard, much? lol)

However, if my husband gained weight now (well actually he has, he has gained about 25 lbs in the course of our marriage) -- I totally still find him sexy and attractive because I am in love with his heart. He is a wonderful father, a wonderful husband, my very best friend -- I am sure he feels similarly about me. When we met I was a lot slimmer (oh, 12 years ago). I wouldn't have faulted him for not falling all over a 300 lb woman -- BUT I WOULD fault him for having left me or something when I gained weight because he had already committed to me for better or for worse.... does that make sense?

People have a right to be attracted to who they choose to be attracted to or not. The fault lies in someone who has committed themselves to you through good times or bad, sickness and health etc, then goes back on their word when times get rough (or weight gets gained lol).

Think about it, seriously... can you honestly say you would prefer watching a love scene with a 350 lb obese man, or one with Johnny Depp?

People are programmed not to be obese. Yes, people come in many shapes and sizes, but obese is not a healthy 'default'. Biologically speaking, we are programmed to seek out 'mates' who appear healthy and fertile, to carry on humanity. When being overweight was in fashion, it was because it showed that people had enough money (and thus, enough food) to survive and eat what they want.

This isn't a knock on obese people, I am one of them! NO ONE deserves to be ridiculed, or made fun of, or teased. EVERY ONE deserves love.

I am just saying, the reason all of us are trying to lose weight has to do with some combination of health/looking good/feeling better/having more energy etc... why would we fault men for desiring those traits in us as a partner?

it's a real catch 22 we put ourselves in.

I'm a guy. I think at my biggest I weighed 336lbs (I say I think because our scales at the time didn't go that high, so I just added on the extra that it looped around to if you get what I mean), I was an even 300lbs by the time we got a digital scales.
I wasn't exactly starved for the attention of girls when I was heavier, I had long curly hair then and I'd rock out at just about any opportunity, so I guess that could be mistaken for confidence, I don't know but either way there was often pretty girls around me. But when these girls would flirt with me I'd shut it down straight away by acting like I didn't realise they were flirting or some other stupid thing (The most embarrassing of which may well be the time a girl kissed me out of the blue and I was so caught off guard and embarrassed that all I did was blow a raspberry in her mouth)
I'd always think about that Groucho Marx line about any club that would have me as a member and just kill any chance before it even got off the ground. Sometimes I'd dress it up in morality, "I couldn't kiss a girl I don't know that well", sometimes I'd convince myself that I was just at the bar to dance that night (although...not with that girl who tried to get me to dance with her, I pretended I didn't know what she meant) but the result was always the same.
So somewhere along the line, in what might be considered a manic episode; I shaved my head, I hadn't gotten into the PhD course I wanted (which was sort of down to a lack of self confidence too) and briefly thought I'd get a job in the real world instead. So my gimmick was gone, so was the illusion of confidence and with it most of the attention. On the plus side I would no longer have to suffer every ******* in town telling me I look like Hurley from Lost (I dunno how it is for girls but apparently all fat guys look alike because if you can name a famous fat guy I'll bet I've "looked like" him at some point)
Anyway, diet and exercise, diet and exercise, today I weigh in at around 230lbs. I am by no means any more confident (well maybe a little, but not enough, I still see the same body) but I'm getting there. So about two weeks ago I'm at a party (not drinking!!! that painful little change dropped about 20lbs, so hopefully it'll stick) and right as I'm walking in through this crowded house this very attractive girl start sort of dancing at me. And it was weird because I've never felt a more bitter hatred for a total stranger. I couldn't even explain it, it was completely irrational but so intense that I felt like vomiting. I'm fine with girls dancing up on whoever just not me, not now.

I hope I can get over this, I don't want to hold something irrational inside me against others. I mean, they're not actually making the statement that you perceive, especially if they didn't know you before, then they're just...doing what humans do..and it's ok to be human...I'm starting to come to terms with that (Jesus I sound like a self help book!). And what about the girls from before? Sure they may have been attracted by the gimmick, but they hung around when the music ended, we'd talk, the girls now could be the same as the girls from before (in some cases literally...I was pretty drunk for a number of years), it's not fair of me to assume they're shallow. And while I still don't have the confidence to do anything about it, one of these I'll respond to the flirting and it won't be with bitter hatred.

I disagree with "people are programmed not to be obese." Some people are.

We have three cats, all of whom are fed the same food on the same schedule. Only one of them is obese. The other two are not. Alex is muscular, while Tuffy is tiny. Tiger waddles when she walks and looks a lot like Garfield.

And the cat with the history of stroke, who must take medication to keep her blood pressure under control--is the SMALLEST of the three. Granted she's also the oldest, by about four years, but my point is, the obese cat is not suffering any serious health problems, while the small, lithe, limber, slender cat *is*. So much for stereotyping "fat equals sick, thin equals healthy." (I'm not saying anyone here is doing that).

Again I emphasize, all of our cats eat the same food on the same schedule. And all three are spayed/neutered, so post-spay obesity is not a factor.

Random, I gotcha on the "won't join a club that would have me as a member" thing. I could have dated in high school. There were boys interested. But somewhere deep inside, I figured if they were attracted to me, there must be something wrong in their heads. And I wasn't even all that fat, back then. Just chubby. My present height, but a 16/18 where I am now a 24/26.

Can anyone confirm or deny whether life is easier for fat guys than it is for fat chicks? In my experience, men can joke about their size better than women can. "It's my wife's good cooking, hahaha!" (pat stomach) For women, especially nowadays, if she's more than a size 0 she's "fat," and if she's in a double digit clothing size, she thinks she's Shamu. But men aren't called Shamu. They are called teddy bears, gentle giants, an affectionate "the big guy," whatever. It could be some kind of programming. Since men traditionally play the "protector" role, it's more OK for a man to be big than for a woman, who plays the "damsel in distress." And has anyone noticed that if a woman doesn't look like she needs protection--she's of considerable size rather than tiny, maybe she dresses in slacks instead of frills, and has her hair short--the tendency is to think she's a lesbian?

As far as the bar/nightclub scene, the last time I asked a man to dance with me, he told me to come back later when he'd had a few more drinks. (That way he'd have an excuse. When his friends laughed at him later for dancing with a fat woman, he could say he was drunk and didn't know what he was doing.) Of course I didn't go back. If a man has to be drunk to justify dancing with me, forget it.

Lovebirds, been thinking about your post for a while now.

I know I'm biased here but I feel men are in a worse situation. I know it sounds crazy but hear me out:
We're made fun of for being fat, but we're made fun of for dieting, it's not a "manly" thing to be concerned about your weight. If I'm honest that's a big part of why it took me so long to do anything about it, a sort of foolish pride.
I mean I don't presume to speak for all fat men here but male sex symbols are all toned so it's similar to the ridiculously thin models women see. gah, I'm not sure what I'm trying to say, it's just I think it's seen as more acceptable for a "fuller figured" woman to be the romantic lead in a movie than it would be for a "portly gent" to be her counterpart and you'll see that carry over into most facets of life.
I'm trying to phrase this next sentence is the least crass way possible, so I hope you'll bare with me: It seems to be more socially acceptable for a man to have a predilection for large women than it would be for a woman to be into large men. The only instance I can ever recall of a woman liking larger in any media was in one of the later series of scrubs and that was played for laughs (if I recall correctly it revolved around how insecure fat guys are), whereas there seems to be subculture of guys that are into bigger girls. Although to be honest I don't know how I'd feel about that either, "you only want me for my body, don't you!!!"

Anyway, I've taken this thread woefully off topic, but I just wanted to say, that I get how bad it can be for women, when I see those photoshopped models it makes me feel ill, but I think the situation is at least comparable for men but we're not allowed to talk about it cause that's not cool and/or manly. ****, I'm on a message board intended for women (which I hope isn't a problem by the way, this seems like such a friendly place, I hope my presence wouldn't irk anyone) because any male fitness board I've ever seen is overflowing with macho bravado bull**** from musclehead *******s

Fair enough, random. Thanks for your dialogue and your glimpse into how the other half lives. I didn't mean to offend, and I hope I didn't.

Oh, and as far as I'm concerned, roosters are welcome in the henhouse with us chicks.

I have seen plenty of guys who are more on the ugly end and they have worse attitudes than good looking guys. i don't think we should pass judgement on 'good looking' people. a lot of my best friends are in the modeling and fashion industry and they used to get a lot of hate from people because people assumed because they were 'good looking' they were pretentious etc etc. My best friend grew up as the fat girl before she lost the weight and was spotted and given a modeling contract so she has seen both sides and she had told me she got treated better by people and wasn't judged as much when she was fat. looks don't mean everything and being good looking doesn't mean u are a douche.

You make a good point, caliyah.

One thing that has always struck me (and made me want to "strike" the man involved) is when a man rambles on and on about having to have a slim, attractive woman, and if you look at him, he's no prize either. I've seen dating sites where the picture shows a grotesquely fat man who specifies that his potential date must be under a certain weight.

This happened to me. My neighbor tried to fix me up with a blind date, and called the guy to come over to meet me. We had never met before, didn't know each other from a can of paint, so no pre-conceived notions.

He pulled into the driveway, took a glance at me, laughed, said "you (censored)" to my neighbor, and took off. (Not in an angry attitude, but as if my neighbor had pranked him.)

He was ugly as a bulldog himself, but I wouldn't have judged him on that alone. Yet he had the nerve to treat me that way. What's more important is that he is uglier on the inside than on the outside. A man who would treat ANY woman that way, I wouldn't date.