There's been a lot of research (beginning 20 years ago, at least) on how naturally thin folks differ in thought and action from overweight and formerly fat folks. Trying to make overweight folks "think and act like thin folks" hasn't been very successful - very possibly, (supported by much of the newer research) because there are fundamental differences between naturally thin folks and folks who are or were overweight, some of which may have been determined at the time of conception.

I was just reading recently that scientists have identified over 40 genes (in 5 different categories, I think) that play a role in body fat composition. Some affect insulin response, others affect hunger. I'm not saying that we are destined or genetically determined to be fat - but the predisposition may at least partially be inherited (that my sisters have followed our parents' weight patterns, and my brother and I, both adopted but not biologically related, are different from our family and each other, certainly does make me wonder). I've been morbidly obese since age 5. My brother has always been extremely athletic and fit, much more so than the rest of the family. Our parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles and siblings have all been thin as children and average to mildly overweight at least until middle-age.

I may have been born "different," so it may be impossible for me to ever successfully imitate a "naturally, thin" person. I know that my hunger signals are a lot stronger than my satiety signals so moderation doesn't work for me, and I have tried it. At best, I maintained my weight, but usually my weight would still gradually increase. I may always have to "struggle" with my weight, and in the scheme of things (I have a lot more serious health issues that I'm struggling with right now), I think focusing on my weight is a small price to pay. There are certainly more difficult things to deal with.

Be very careful in thinking you've found "the answer" to weight loss. Many have tried, and all have failed. If there's anything I've learned in 36 years of dieting, is that there is no single answer for everyone. What works for one person can be the very worst thing for someone else to attempt.

I've mentioned before that my family members can leave food alone with no problem. DH can make guacamole and leave a couple of Tbs in the bowl to just.....go bad. There can be one cookie in the box and NO ONE will eat it for days and days and days and I am totally aware of its presence.

My 13 DS is extremely interesting to me in this regard. He doesn't eat sweets. Ever. He just doesn't want them. We'll have cake and ice cream for a birthday and he'll say no thanks and go off to skateboard. Not even one bite. He's wired differently than me.

Our journeys are very individual. For me, conscious awareness of the food I eat and how I move my body honors the incredible gift that my body is. I am wonderfully made, gifted with good health and energy and working body parts. I know that eating "status quo" or following the Standard American Diet is unhealthy to my body.....so I say thanks to God for my body by making conscious choices to take care of it. We all find meaning and comfort in different ways.

Hey, I tried that experiment! For over 20 years. I even avoided the scale for close to 15 years, trying to not think about what I weigh.

I gotta tell you, that didn't work out quite so well for me. I wound up morbidly obese. And unhealthy. And miserable. And tired. And depressed. And unproductive. And lifeless. And, and, and. So yeah, not something I would recommend.

Now that I actually THINK about what I eat and how much I weigh - I'm healthy. And happy. And energetic. And highly productive. And full of life. And, and, and. Peace at last! So yes, I would DEFINITELY recommend it! Definitely.

Hey, there are just certain things in life you've GOT to think about. So be it. Works wonders for me. Wonders.

Midwife, we've discussed this before, and yup, my family is the same exact way.

I think for many folks, certainly for me, it's not the amount of energy and thought that's going into my eating and exercise, it's the kind of energy and thought. I can make it a joyless chore, an unhealthy obsession or I can make it a challenging, even fun activity - a game, a challenge, a passion even. Making it a joy or a misery is largely my choice as is whether I let it interfere with rather than enhance my life and relationships.

I've been giving this some thought and I realized that I actually spend less time thinking about food now than I ever used to. I plan, post and pack and then I eat when and what I planned. Before this change in my life, food would always be on my mind. What's for lunch? When's lunch? What should I eat? The office girls are going to Sonic. Should I go? What should I get? Etc., and then the guilt that inevitably followed a poor choice. I've removed so much of that angst through simple planning and awareness. Like Glory, I've actually been set free from my previous food obesessions and guilt.

I think you are discribing intuitive eating. There is a link for that.

http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/show...156125&page=12

I read this post a couple days ago, and then I couldn't find it again to reply, so thanks to the couple of you who already quoted it.

I agree with Meg - to lump all maintainers together and then to call us all obsessed is (a) offensive, and (b) simply not true! I wouldn't call myself obsessive about weight and calories. I am watchful and mindful of what I eat, I am concerned about maintaining my health. I am dedicated to having a healthy lifestyle.

I don't know how old Kelli is, but I know when I was younger (I'm 64 now) I didn't count calories, and I didn't think about what I was eating or how much I weighed. And I wore small sizes. I probably weighed around 125-130 for most of my adult life until I was in my 40's, and I never seriously dieted. What happened? Looking back, several things. As I got older, my hormonal levels changed (had a hysterectomy when I was 35), my activity level went way down - had a very sedentary job, and I kept eating the way I had in my 20's. Starting in my late 40's and 50's I went on many diets. Finally in 1999/2000 I lost about 70 lbs. I maintained at that for a few years, but slowly slipped back into some bad habits, so I'm trying to lose those pounds again. I am sooo much more aware of what and how much I eat now, and especially how much I exercise! But I don't call it an obsession, just a plan for keeping my weight where it needs to be and living a healthy lifestyle. And as you all get older, you'll appreciate that you took control of your life when you did! I'm sorry that Kelli is tired of it at her age (whatever it is). I'm tired of washing the dishes and clothes, and of cleaning my house. But if I want to have the lifestyle I want, I have to keep doing those things. Doesn't make me obsessive though.

Pat, I think that thread was removed by the moderators because people were getting understandably upset, and it must have gotten out of hand in some way, or the moderators felt it was heading there.

If I've learned anything here, and in 36 years of being overweight and on the diet rollercoaster, is that there is absolutely no one-size-fits-all plan that works for everyone. Even maxims like "any diet works, if you work it," and "calories in, calories out" can be very misleading, in my opinion. It's not always just a matter of finding a plan that you are comfortable with mentally and physically - it's sometimes a lot more complex than that (and at other times, it's exactly that simple). Being overweight is not the same problem for everyone, and we've got to stop treating it as the exact same problem. Obesity is a symptom and only a sympton of other things going on, and there's probably never going to be a cure that works for everyone, because the reasons and underlying issues can be so different. Even two overweight people of the same gender, age, height, ethnicity, education, cultural and socio-economic background may be overweight for very different reasons. The best weight loss plan for each may need to be very different.

I don't think I ever would have found a plan that would allow me lose and maintain the loss if I hadn't found a doctor willing to change my bc to address my PMDD (very severe PMS, cramping, headaches, wild mood swings, and bingeing - lots and lots of bingeing). My husband was calling me "werewolf" and my PMS week "meat week," he actually joked to friends of ours that to enter the apartment safetly, he had to throw a bag of burgers into the apartment and wait until he heard chewing.

I also have severe reaction to carbohydrates. They drastically increase my appetite and cravings and they make the symptoms of my autoimmune disease and fibromyalgia worse. If I don't eat sugar and other simple or short chain carbohydrates, I have more energy, feel better with less pain, my autoimmune disease goes into remission (we think) and my appetite is tremendously reduced. Yes, sugar makes me obsessed and even sick, a werewolf isn't a terrible analogy (or I suppose in this case, simile).

We're not all werewolves, we're not all obsessed, we're not all compulsive overeaters, we're all not lazy, couch potatoes - and we've got to remember that as much as our common purpose has drawn us together, we've got to be very careful in telling someone what will or won't work for them based on what did or didn't for us. We can only share our experiences, which is why it's generally better to say "that wouldn't work for me" rather than "don't do that, it doesn't work."

How I view my food choices...

My food choices are expansive, they aren't restrictive. Yes I don't eat meat, cheese, eggs or animal products for the most part. I eat bread very rarely and sweets very rarely. I had (vegan) french toast today which is something I haven't had in any form for probably 5 years, if not more. I don't sit there thinking every day that 'gee I wish I could have french toast'. Its more that I have tons of other things to eat that I enjoy and yes there are things that I can't control in large amounts so I don't keep those things in the house. That doesn't mean I can't have those things, it just means I choose not to for the most part because of how I react around them.

So I don't know about others but I don't feel restricted although others could look at my diet and view it as restricted.

Restriction is definitely in the eye of the beholder. It's a bit like I once heard a man in a wheelchair who mountain climbed say something like - being in this chair means there are some things I cannot do, but why should I focus on the dozen or so things I can't do instead of the thousands of things I can.

Have you ever noticed how "junk foods" especially always seem to go for an over-the-top amount of flavor. There's no subtlety at all. It's like the difference between a tasteful nude portrait and porn - or a good movie and a straight to video piece of crap that not even mind altering substances could make watchable. Do you feel sorry for the folks who have good taste?

I'm not trying to insult people who like junk food (or porn or bad movies for that matter), but there is no deprivation in making choices.

I eat a lot more variety "on plan" than off, and I've noticed that my tastebuds are getting a lot more sensitive since I've reduced the amount of sugary and high carb foods (I can't honestly say eliminated, but I'm working on it - it amazes me how I will still eat things that will make me sick or that I will regret on many levels). It's like I've been given a new set of tastebuds, and I'm excited to try them out - take them for a spin, so to speak. Foods that I never liked, even hated are now some of my favorites. And I ALWAYS considered myself a person who liked almost all foods. I wasn't a picky eater, and I liked fruits and vegetables, but it's different somehow. It's as though I'm appreciating foods on a different level. I used to HATE brussels sprouts with an absolute passion, one of the very few vegetable I didn't like. Now I love them (at least roasted).

I've also always been a fairly open-minded eater, willing to try almost anything - but now I'm more of an adventurous eater - looking to try new foods even seeking out ethnic markets to try exotic fruits and veggies.

I feel like my world was very small before and I'm expanding it. Not only in what I'm eating, but what I'm willing to try physically. I bought a bike a couple summers ago, I tried geocaching (still have to replace the gps hubby lost). It's weird how I hate walking/hiking, but love geocaching and the only difference is a little gadget and a small (junky) "treasure" at the end.

I really wanted to let this go, but I'm just not having that kind of a day. Sigh. I'll play nice next time...

I'm glad that's working out for you. I've been doing this a while, and I waited and waited and waited, wondering when those tastes would pass, asking the maintainers who'd been around longer than me. I ate nothing but healthy food for long stretches of time. And you know what? I still like junk food. I like brussels sprouts, and shrimp, and plain nonfat yogurt, and the perfectly ripe apple, and Cheetos, and cheap chocolate that has been sitting in a bin for 6 months, and PopTarts, and the occasional McDonalds Quarter Pounder. It isn't an either/or for me. Guess what? Junk food tastes good. I see absolutely no harm in admitting that.

So like I said, I'm glad taste bud thing is working out for you. Hurray. I'm a huge believer in doing what works for you, and if eliminating junk food works for you, eliminate it. No need to rationalize it to me. But it didn't work for me, and it doesn't work for a lot of people. Eating a PopTart once in a while isn't a moral failing (and not necessarily a diet buster either). And one could argue whether porn is either, but I really don't appreciate the comparison. Even if you weren't trying to insult me. I don't need you to feel sorry for my tastes, or perceived lack thereof, any more than you need anybody to feel sorry for what they perceive as your deprivation.

Anne

This (well, aside from the Quarter Pounder--ick! But I have my own junky guilty pleasures).

Anne, I think you missed my main point in most of the posts I made in this thread before the one that offended you, which is that we ARE all different, and whenever I speak (or write) anywhere anytime I am only talking about and for myself. I trust that there may be one or two folks out there who might have a similar perspective, point of view or experience to mine, but I don't think I have ever attempted to state or imply that any of my comments are meant to be pertinant or even interesting to every one. And believe it or not, I wasn't judging, criticizing or even looking down on anyone else's choice of food or for that matter movies (even if they're porn). My examples were perhaps poor, because I wasn't even trying to make the analogy of "quality," but of subtlety. Even as a kid, I prefered "sit down" restaurants to fast food, so I'm sure my lack of enthusiasm for it does reflect judgement - mine, not anyone elses. I don't like kill teenager movies, or college kids getting drunk movies either, but I'm sure someone will tell me I'm an idiot for not liking the Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elmstreet, Porky's or Animal House movies (I do love the Revenge of the Nerd movies though even the stupidest sequel's and I'm even half embarassed to admit I like some Adam Sandler and Jim Carey movies too).

I completely AGREE with you that what works for me may not work for you (as I think I made pretty clear in the post before the one you quoted). I wasn't saying that fast food was bad or anyone was bad for eating it, or that anyone (including me) should never ever eat it. I didn't even say that I NEVER eat or appreciate junk food - I also didn't say I never occasionally watched "bad" movies (and whether or not I have ever or continue to watch and enjoy porn is nobody's business but my husband's and mine) - I was talking about subtlety not value. In a "B" movie or in porn - the theme is obvious and strong - no guessing what the intention is, and that's how I see the flavors in high fat/sugar/starchy recipes (and not just "fast food" but even pretentious high fat/calorie/sugar concoctions you find in expensive restaurants).

There are strong flavors and delicate flavors, and all I was saying is that I've come to appreciate delicate flavors even more, and am not having to feel deprived because my tastes have changed. I still do eat junk foods occasionally, but I'm struck by how strong and unsubtle the flavors seem to be in comparison to when they were a larger portion of my diet. In some cases, the flavor is still pleasant, just wow like being slapped in the face with sugar or salt and in other cases the food just tastes horrendous to me. I wrote recently of trying my once favorite candy bar, the Zero bar, many friends and family didn't understand the attraction. In fact my sister commented that she didn't know how anyone could eat the "nasty thing." I recently had one and understand what they were saying. I can hardly believe I ever liked them (but again to be clear, I'm not criticizing anyone who still does like them) they tasted more like sugared Crisco than the "lucious white chocolate covered almond nougat" I remembered.

None of us have to justify our choices to anyone. You don't have to justify your choices to me, and I don't have to justify my choices to you (of food or movies) and I wasn't justifying or condemning just making a personal observation of how I saw a similarity between junk food and porn - I didn't say that everyone or anyone else should agree with me or condemn either the junk food or the porn for it. If I consider fast food to be porn-like, in some way it wouldn't be the first time (and probably won't be the last time) anyone here has made a comparison or analogy between food and porn, but I am sorry it offended you. It obviously struck a nerve, and I can understand it, but it was not the intent of my message and I still think the similarity is valid and not inherently offensive (but if you disagree, that's fine and good. I don't think disagreement is a terrible thing, either).

That's an interesting comparison (parable?). It reminds me of some discussions I've had with other people. They think I 'deprive' myself when I eat fruits instead of cake, for instance; sometimes it's like nobody understands that I just want the fruit more than the cake, and that it's as simple as that. (What I don't understand, though, is why people think I'm a vegetarian, when I actually eat protein in many forms at every meal. It must be all the veggies.)

That's what happened to me with vegetables. I used to be a very picky eater, saying "I don't like them", and then I grew tired of being sick four times every winter and always eating the same old stuff. (And I guess this has also made me quite doubtful about all the 'I dont like veggies' arguments, because I used to be like that and yet was able of 'conditioning' myself to like them... but that's another story, and I know I shouldn't judge or whatever, sorry. ^^)

(And that sport looks pretty interesting, by the way. I understand it's like some kind of treasure hunt?)

This said, I too also still like my junk food from time to time, and I doubt it'll stop. (After all, it's working at McDonald's that made me like their food... I must be a freak of nature.) But I eat it way less often, and don't feel as attracted to it as before. I guess it evens out in the end. Not to mention that in lots of cases, I now feel disappointed by it, as if I remembered it tasted different, and when I finally have it, it's just not what I thought it would be.

kaplods - I definitely agree that we are all different and my background is similar. Even at my highest weight, I abhored fast food places. I considered them an evil convenience. If someone I was with wanted to eat but we needed food fast, I'd grudgingly go to fast food places. If it was up to me though, I wouldn't have gone. (Ok taco bell bean burrito, you were my one exception) I also never liked donuts which of course lots of people like. And sometimes even when I ate junk, I would think to myself that it just doesn't taste that good. There were some exceptions (dreyers cookies n cream ice cream) but again once I cleaned up the food I was eating, even my taste for those fell away.

That isn't to say that I don't eat things that could be considered to be low in nutritional value but those things are generally rare. For me though once, I stopped eating certain things, my horizons expanded because I found other things to eat.