There's also evidence that not everyone finds fat and protein more satiating than carbs.

Sadly, virtually all of the theorists that argue for a single, supposedly optimal and universal human diet (including Paleo) conveniently ignore all the evidence that supports any other diet than their own.

Until we understand why some people do better on low-fat, high carb and others do better on low-carb, and why some people eat horribly "unhealthy" by most definitions, yet remain thin, vital, active, and strong throughout a long, healthy life.

I don't think we've even scratched the surface on understanding health and nutrition, let alone on the relationship between the two. There are just too many unstudied variables to see the big picture.

Which really means that most people with weight and other health issues need to experiment with diet, exercise, stress management, and other lifestyle elements to find their own way to better health.

Very few people believe they are truly exceptional, so it's pretty common, when a person finds a successful path, to believe everyone else would benefit from that path, and that path alone.

Most of the research has been aimed at finding "the best way" without considering that there may be no best way. Genetics, lifestyle, environment, even climate and pollution may affect nutritional needs. It's also possible (even probable) that many people have no clear "best diet."

Or perhaps "best" depends on your current and future lifestyle plans and goals.

GoKaleo had a recent video post about this. I normally hate recommending videos because I rather read something than listen to it but here is a link:
https://gokaleo.com/2014/10/17/will-...ories-forever/

Basically, you can follow a diet that reduces your calories without counting calories and many people do that. Even on diets that some say they don't count calories with, other people say they don't lose without counting calories. Her recommendation and what she did was count calories for a year... then she slowly decreased because as she learned what normal portions were, she no longer needed to count calories. Now as someone who has lost over 100 lbs without counting calories, I used to do calorie count check-ins and I think the approach of at least getting an idea of your calorie counts is good.

And since I'm mentioning GoKaleo already, she also posted this, which is talking about the key to success which is... habit. I think most maintainers here agree that habit is important, it is also a good read and ties into the counting calories because if you find yourself not losing weight without counting calories, you can use counting calories to get into the habit of eating right and at a level to lose/maintain your loss
https://gokaleo.com/2013/09/30/habit-the-real-key/

Some good points.

Pointing out a few things. For most of human history no one even knew what a calorie was. Until recently no calorie counting apps, none of that. For the most part humans were lean or at least no where near as obese now in terms of average weight and percentage of obese. And sure things have changed more than just eating: TV watching, cars, sitting, stress, lack of adequate sleep, chronic cardio. All of those are important as well.

Although Nellie likes to emphasize people are different, and this is true, that argument can easily go too far. We are all more alike than different. Insulin is a key hormone not just for all humans but at minimum all mammals and probably most animals. Sugar is toxic in the bloodstream it has to get out of the bloodstream. Most obese people are insulin resistant at some level. If you aren't paying attention to carbs you are going to have a hard time losing weight, for most obese people. Now that level can be different. I might need 50 grams a day. Perhaps someone else can lose weight on 95 grams a day. But insulin and carbs are important for every living person.

Now some people do not get obese on a lot of carbs. But it is important to realize they might not be healthy. They might have diabetes type 2 and lots of other health problems related to excessive carb intake.

And if anyone doesn't think they were meant to be fat burners think on this. Most people have glycogen stores of at most 2,500 calories. At most. But a very lean 10% body fat 160 lb male has 56,000 calories stored as body fat. That is what got our ancestors through lean times, not constant carb eating that many people engage in today.

Any time you eat food you are giving your body a signal. Calories are just the bare, bare, minimum thing in food. After all who thinks 80 calories of spinach versus 80 calories of part of a candy bar have the same impacts on the body? Anyone want to do a 1,500 calorie snicker bar diet? Your body will cry out for more food because it isn't getting nutrients. While I think 1,500 calories of any diet is too little, a high nutrient dense one will be infinitely more filling.

But the bottom line for me and millions succeeding without calorie counting is fix your metabolism. If you are obese chances are your body is in fat storage mode from too much insulin and you have down-regulated your body's ability to burn fat, how many mitochondria you have, and how well they operate. You need to fix that first, then losing weight will be easier than you ever imagined.

Raising hand here. Much as I'd like to be one of those people who can say, "A hard-boiled egg and a piece of cheese keep me full all morning," I haven't found that macronutrient composition affects my satiety.

F.

Why are you losing weight? What is your motivation?

There is nothing wrong with being hungry and it will happen from time to time. I try to find ways to distract myself or drink zero/low calorie drinks like water, diet soda, 16oz cup of tea with a tbls of half-half. If necessary, I'll eat something like a cheese stick for 80 cals, Fiber One brownie for 90, or a 80 cal cup of Greek yogurt. I'm not a huge fan of fruit, but you could eat a small apple for around the same number of calories.

One of my favorite breakfasts is egg mcmuffins. I eat two and they keep me full the vast majority of the morning. I use:

2 100 cal English muffins
1/2c egg whites - 60cals
4 slices of Canadian bacon - 50 cals
2tbls of shredded cheddar cheese - ~ 50 cals

It is 360cal for a very filling breakfast.

Calorie counting and carefully measuring out all my portions was the only thing that worked for me. It sucks a lot of the time to find out that what you thought was one portion was actually 2 or more. Your stomach is stretched from eating for two adults, it needs time to adapt and shrink back to normal so that you feel satisfied longer from lower volumes of food. Once this happens, it is amazing. I used to be able to destroy a buffet. Now I can barely get one plate down before feeling like I am going to explode. I can hardly get through the egg mcmuffins some mornings.

Weight loss becomes self-correcting when you stick with it. You also change a lot about how you view food. You become far more discriminating about what you put in your mouth. You learn self-discipline. You don't have to eat the whole bag of something to be satisfied. You break bad food habits and make good new ones. Yes, it was hard at first. If weight loss was easy, no one would be fat. You have to ask yourself how bad you want this. Basically there is no diet that will allow you to eat the same massive quanities of food that you have been eating and still lose weight. That was the hardest part of dieting for me to come to terms with. But once I got over it and determined to fight through it, the weight came off and stomach shrank to the point is it no longer a major issue anymore.

What I would do is start at 1600-1700 cals a day. Your weight loss will not be as rapid, but you won't feel as deprived either as on 1200 cals. Then slowly work it down as your TDEE drops and your body adapts.

This is quite true. I think that relatively soon we'll have some easy ways to test what type of dietary plan might be better for one person vs another based on their genetics but that still won't account for lifestyle.

Larry -

I think your story and success are amazing. I am sure you can help a large number of people that will be inspired by your success and lets face it people do need to know that fat is not bad for you. If your intention is to help people though you should consider branching out where you're learning from. First step is to stop limiting your reading to people who make their living on the low carb agenda.

This is a great blog run by a low carb advocate who doesn't ignore what science tells us.

A couple thoughts on your post ...

Sugar is not toxic. Dose makes it toxic. Water is toxic in the correct dose. Most people are consuming far too much sugar, no question. Toxic regardless of dose? Hardly.

I can't begin to understand how the fact that fat is much more efficient as a means to store energy causes you to conclude that "we were meant to be fat burners", whatever that means. There are several logical fallacies at work here just as your assertion that hunger is somehow tied to a lack of micronutrients. A diet primarily based on whole foods is going to be more filling than a diet of donuts and candy bars given the same number of calories. Again, more logical fallacies in your writing.

This last bit? Pure fantasy. One can easily ramp up their fat burning enzyme and mitochondria through exercise and still find losing weight difficult.

[QUOTE] Yes, oh yes, p l e a s e !!!!!!! Where do I sign up for the snicker bar challenge????

[QUOTE=Mountain Mamma;5084216]Should we have one for real?

I "count calories" but only a rough estimate. I'll count breakfast, lunch and snacks and get a general idea of where I am and then I can gauge dinner. I'm not as strict with it as maybe I should be but as long as I know I'm going to be somewhere between 1600 and 1800 ish for the day, I'm ok.

It's interesting though how everyone is different. My mother can eat low low carb, high protein and drop weight super fast. If I do it, forget about it. But I do REALLY well (as in 34# in 2 months well!) with higher carbs- non starchy carbs but still. Everyone is different and it took me a while to find that calorie- carb- protein- whatever sweet spot and stop dropping.

I no longer count calories with any consistency, but I do think calorie counting is the end result of most, if not all, diet plans. What those calories consist of and how/when we portion out those calories in a day varies with each individual.

I second the idea of the poster who said that you should try eating more.

This is only personal experience, but since I raised my calories from 1400 to almost 2000 (and allowed myself to eat more 'unhealthy' food), I no longer have problems with binging and very little cravings, obsessive thoughts about food etc. This allowed me to stick consistently to my calorie goal. I lost 20 lb. in three months. Consistently eating less than you burn will make you lose weight. It may be slower than at 1200, but it is much easier and you will be happier while you lose.

Your age and activity level play a role as well. Maybe try one of the online calculators to find out how much you should be eating to maintain, then subtract 400-500 calories from that number. Try that for a while and see how you feel and whether you lose weight.

1200 calories is starvation and binging is your body's self-preservation. You are not weak. Our body can get very insistent when threatened.

And then there are people like me, who can lose weight on any amount of carbs as long as calories are reduced. I lost 50 pounds eating about 225g of carbs per day -- 60% of my 1,500-calorie allotment. I continue to maintain my loss on a similar ratio (300g carbs in a 2,000-cal diet). It appears that the Canada Food Guide recommendations (similar to the American ones) work fine for me.

F.

And honestly, I don't think calorie counting is restrictive but it is data to help you. Like for instance, you find that eating that 1/2 cup of sunflower seeds and 4 tbsp of salad dressing in your salad is adding more calories than you expected. Like whenever I counted calories, I never thought 'oh gosh, I only have 100 calories left' but rather, what did I eat today? why are my calories eaten LOWER than my desired range? why are they higher? Why are my macros so different today than other days? And oh gosh, did I really not eat as many vegetables today as I should've? And people find they need to INCREASE calories for a few reasons. So it is a useful tool to use but it isn't the only tool.

I've recently started counting calories again, working with a coach and she has me on a pretty high calorie amount but it is partly to see how my body responds to it and also be able to support my body and my desired activities. So the reason I'm counting calories is to make sure I make my calorie targets.

Hi, I am a newbie in this forum. Counting calories didn't work for me. It just got me very weak. I lost weight slowly by eating healthy (balance). eat less sugar and try not to eat after 8pm. It work fine for me. I lost 18 pounds in 8 weeks. The main thing is I feel more energetic then before. Before I felt tried very easy. It felt like my body just wasn't function correctly.