Hmmmm... you have me rethinking Atkins now. I never thought about going at it backwards. I'm going to have to dig up my book and take a look at it to see what I can come up with. Right now I'm doing low carb vegetarian. I love all the veggies and the fruit but I miss the meat ALOT which causes me to cheat with meat and I hate feeling like a cheater.
I don't like Atkins Induction. Makes me feel yucky all over. I never could get to going on OWL because I was so focused on Induction and doing for weeks and weeks sometimes months trying to get that right.
After reading some of these posts I wonder now if I can combine the 2 diets and make my own way of eating work for me.

Right on. It doesn't matter what anyone else does, it matters what YOU do that works for you. I wish more people would take the time to master themselves, and be secure in that. No one's method is more right than the other. If it works for your body, then it's right for that body. Plain and simple.

Insulin is very misunderstood by many people.

I know that low carb nut jobbers (not calling you one) are all up in arms about insulin and Taubes beats the insulin drum repeatedly but insulin is not something worth worrying about in my opinion. A couple quick points:

You lock people up in a ward study, and even the most obese (and most likely insulin resistant) lose weight on a high carb hypocaloric diet.

Protein is a big driver of insulin all by it's lonesome.

That said, most people will lose weight easiest by limiting carbs. However, that is because it is the easiest way to limit calories. Not because it is the easiest way to limit insulin.

I think the best article out there on insulin is this one. One of the best parts is the low carb fanatics who come out of the woodwork to debate the points of the author. (They like to use a lot of cherry picked data ...)

Please allow me to repeat myself.

I believe the easiest way for most people to lose weight is to limit their carb intake. I am pro low carb dieting. I just disagree on why it works with low carb fanatics.

I apologize for posting here as I don't know anything about the Atkins diet.

But I did want to say thank you JohnP for that article and the other information he provides us via links and back-up to responses he posts, I find them very helpful even if they don't apply to me and my current situation. Thank you, John.

Sorry for the hi-jack in the post!

I totally agree with this. And what's least restrictive for someone with no metabolic/digestive issues may be far broader than what's least restrictive for people who do have such issues.

My own lipid profile is fine, as is my insulin response (as per the 2-hour glucose challenge test), despite my consistently high-carb diet. If I can maintain a healthy BMI, good metabolic parameters, and a complete absence of digestive symptoms while eating a lot of carbs (I'm not talking junk food), I see no reason to restrict my carb consumption. I don't fully subscribe to the "eat to live" philosophy. The pleasure of eating is part of living, and carbs provide some of that pleasure (for me).

I'm also not so cynical as to believe that the FDA and Health Canada would deliberately conceal substantive, replicated evidence that a high-carb diet dysregulates metabolism and contributes to diabetes. What we do know is that obesity dysregulates metabolism, so there's good reason for us to manage our weight.

Freelance

The confusion lay in the fact that the statement could be read to apply to everyone, rather than just you or a subset of people:

<< ...someone controlling carbohydrates specifically for the avoidance of otherwise inevitable metabolic syndrome.>>

F.

Another statement I agree with. Just about all primary research studies on low-carb diets I've read concluded these diets work because they have the salutary side effect of limiting calories. (For most people -- knowing myself, I have no doubt I could gain weight on a low-carb diet. If I didn't consciously restrict calories, I would go to town with eggs, cheese, fatty fish, nuts, and olive oil.)

And thanks for the comprehensive article on insulin, John.

F.

I just want to jump in here and say that like Taryl and others, I had to work "tweak" my low carb eating. My diet is a mix of atkins/paleo/primal, and I felt like I would die on induction, until I added back carbs. I had to do two weeks at 50 grams to get through the carb flu (which when I realized I was eating in excess of 600 grams of carbs per day before made sense.

I don't even bother with the science behind it, because so much of it is arguable to so many people. It works, my doctor approves and I'm healthier. I would suggest to the op that you try hard to give it two weeks at a slightly higher carb level.

First let me say in the nature of full disclosure... I'm not on Atkins... and I'm not a vegetarian... Although I was a vegetarian, and actually a strict vegan for well over 5 years... and personally I gravitate towards a plant centered diet... Currently I average 120 to 150 grams of carbohydrate a day from mostly vegetables, vegetarian and vegan protein sources, nuts, fruit, some dairy, and also some whole grains...

When I plan vegetarian low carb meals... all I really do is swap out the meat and use a vegetarian or vegan meat equivalent... So I'll do something like a large dinner salad with vegan "chicken" strips instead of actual chicken in the dish... And yes I realize that vegan protein sources contain carbs, they also contain fiber, so by choosing ones that are on the lower end of the spectrum... I can come up with meals that are not only vegan, but contain plenty of protein and fiber and only have about 10 to 20 grams of carbohydrate...

But you also could do meals that contain beans or other higher carb protein sources... and still come in at 40g of carbs for the meal...

As far as actual vegetarian and vegan Atkins meal plans... in "The New Atkins for a New You" book on pages 260-273 there are vegetarian and vegan meal plans ranging from 30 to 100 grams of net carbs... with a 50g net carb vegan meal plan included as well...

Hope this helps...

I just wanted to say I support what kaplods is saying here, as well...

And touch on something that you brought up in your post here Freelance... and that is I hope part of the takeaway here from this discussion is that people seek out to know their metabolic markers e.g. CMP, fasting blood suger, lipid profile, A1c, etc...as a baseline so they have a reference point that offers them an opportunity to make informed choices about their diets...

I just want to chime in. It seems like this thread is about what works for different people and potential reasons why it works.

My diet has so far only been focused on cutting out all processed food and slowly cutting out added sugar (which is also a processed food). I also do portion control, and eat a generally balanced diet. When I lived in Japan and Korea (for about two years) I was surprised at how "lousy" a lot of people ate, by which I mean fried foods and carbs. They eat a ton of carbs-- rice and/or noodles at every meal, and also fish, and tons of vegetables. Not a lot of fruit, no dairy, and no sugar. It is very hard to find sweet things when you are in Korea. Even specialty stores do not make sweets the way I grew up with sweets. For me, my secret has been eating whole grain carbs, like couscous, steel-cut oats, rice, and quinoa, and staying away from flour and sugar carbs.

It works for me. I am not sure about the science behind it, but I did see this video that made me scared of sugar and it helped to motivate me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

It is called Sugar: The Bitter Truth and discusses how sugar is processed by the body. It makes me want to learn more about bio-chemistry and nutritional science in general.

If we're talking about cherry picking data, that article, itself, does it in fine form. There is clinical evidence on both sides regarding abnormal endocrine signalling resulting in obesity (or not), and I'd say that selection was actually a very poor argument. Source material on insulin and how it functions would be more useful, because the devil is in the extrapolated details, and it's easy to point out (just as this blog did) where a different hypothesis and reading of the same evidence can lead to an entirely different conclusion.

Data is far from objective, and it's a good thing to remember as much! I am itching to retort but I think I'll refrain. It's taking lots of self control, I admit.

That article was all about insulin and how it functions. Did we read the same article???

In any case - I would be interested to hear your basic theory. Something along the lines of insulin resistance leads to leptin resistance leads to over eating?

I think our modern food supply has far to much sugar. That said - Lustig's video is not very informative and misleading. The pre-occupation on HFC leads people like my parents to be upset when they go to KFC and see the honey is made with HFC because it will make them fat. Yes mom, it's not the fried chicken, mashed potatoes and gravy, nor biscuits ... it't the 30 calories of HFC in the fake honey ...

Good blog post on this video ... the gold is in the comments. (Warning there are many comments...)

Lustig's materials are a good starting point for a lot of folks, but like Taubes I do think he oversimplifies his hypothesis a bit. There's few folks online, at least, I'd recommend without caveat! Everyone has their hypothesis and bias, some admit their premise more readily than others.