AntiDieter —

Like almost everything else in life, weight loss is about personal choice. We can choose to eat and live in a way that results in us being overweight and unhealthy or we can make the food and exercise choices that allow us to lose fat and live healthy lives. I’ve made my choice — I’ve lost (and am maintaining) a 122 pound weight loss. Every day I wake up and make deliberate and conscious choices about what I will eat and how I will move my body that day to sustain my weight loss.

You, of course, have the right to choose the eating and exercise plans that you are comfortable living with and that are right for you . But with that choice comes responsibility. These are your decisions and you own the consequences that naturally flow from them. You can’t choose to eat more calories than you body burns and then lament that diets don't work. You can’t choose to be inactive and then say that you just can’t lose weight.

Your posts tell me that you are someone who struggles with your weight and that you are looking for something — besides yourself — to blame for your failure to lose weight. You’re spending a lot of time posting (both here and on many other threads) that diets don’t work. Perhaps you could take some of that energy and direct it inward, examining your life and the choices that you have made for yourself. You are not a passive participant in your own life. You are in control of how you want to live through every choice that you make, every day.

I’m not suggesting that it’s easy to change the destructive eating and exercise habits of a lifetime — I personally know it isn’t. But there are many people here at 3FC, including some “big losers” who have taken the time to respond to you here, who can tell you it is so worth doing.

Most of the wonderful people here at 3FC are trying to make the choices to live healthy lives. For those of us who have struggled with eating issues for most of our lives, that means putting a fair amount of thought and attention into eating and exercise. The right choices just don’t come naturally to us. But you’ll find that we all think it’s worth the effort. Certainly for me, I’ll never choose to go back to 257 pounds.

Meg

I totally agree with what Meg, MrsJim, bicker, and Suzanne have said...
I struggle with a weight problem because I am an emotional eater...I tend to nibble too much when I am bored or stressed out...I own it-it is ME. When someone makes the final decision to lose weight and keep it off for life-this is the connection that has to be made. You have to become accountable for your own actions-and stop blaming McDonald's, your slow thyroid (yeah right), your medication, using the phrase "I am big boned" and all of the other cop outs and excuses that people use to blame something else on their weight problem and not themselves. When I hear people making excuses for being fat-I know they are not truly ready to change their life.
There are a lot of people who have lost and kept it off-and it is because they have finally accepted the blame for being fat, and have decided to do something about it. Noone made me eat those Twinkies but me...and I did it because I loved the immediate gratification of eating them, they tasted good, and I had nothing better to do... The buck stops here.
Not all successful losers are anorexic, and most overweight people are so because of eating too much and not exercising enough-plain and simple. We want the parking spot closest to the store, we supersize our meals at McDonald's, and we use our treadmill as a coatrack. Heck, I even saw tons of parents DRIVING their kids around trick or treating last year-stopping at every house and waiting in their van...when I was a kid we WALKED through the whole neighborhood and worked for our sack of goodies...sheesh.
Aphil

I wish it was that simple. but it is not. I have a history of dieting for 25 years. and i know so many others. if it were a simple matter of willpower then I would have lost the weight and kept it off.

I had enough willpower for 20 people. I know so many of my friends too who had more willpower then me. But the famine senstivitiy of our bodies was stronger than our willpower.

I am talking about people with discipline that you wouldn't believe. all i have read so far is the same thing that has been parroted over the last 100 years of diets and the obesity problem is on the rise because people have been told that they eat to much so what is the natural thing to do? eat less.

but that doesn't explain the long term failure. these failure rates can't be because people have no willpower. it takes tremendous supernatural strenght to fight a body that is bent on keeping you alive and replacing those fat stores whether you want to or not.

sometimes teh body will put up with the famine (1500 caloires is a famin, 2100 is a famine if it is less than the body needs) maybe a month 6 months or even a year. but for most the body sooner or later takes the control out of the dieters hands and the diet goes to waste.

I bet if you could interview all the obese people in the world you would get the same thing. dieting to lose exercising to lose (I used to walk every other day and jog the subsequent days i would jog 4 miles each time)

you would find that at some point the body takes over and despite all their efforts to twart it they seem to to into a trance like state and eat and eat and eat. this is the body's attempt to recover from teh famine (undereating) to prepare for the next.

telling someone to stop the binging phase of the famine feast cycle is like telling a person with severe depression to snap out of it. it is chemically induced and all the will power in the world will not correct those chemicals that is why they have medications for that condition. so goes teh binging stage. it is chemically induced by the body.

it is the survival mechnisim in action. I also want to clarify something else. not all individuals are famine senstive. these people can undereat, eat late, get excessivly hungry etc, and the body doesn't respond with fat storing or slowing the metabolism.

this is genetic. this low famine sensitive individual has no more control over that genetic aspect than a person who has a high famine sensitivity to change those biochemicals that are the body's response to undereating.
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I better clairify this too. famines can also be quality famines too. the quantity of calaries maybe high but the nutrient levels are low and the body picks this up and interprets this too as time to store fat for a future famine.

thus if a famine sensitive individual eats mcdonalds and junk all the time this will trigger the save up fat for a future famine scenario.

I hope you understand this better.

I wanted to stress to to read these books. it can explain things better than me.

How to be naturally thin by eating more
Breaking out of the food jail both by jean antenello.

eat what you crave and lose 80 pounds article in the for women first mag July 8 2002 the author of this book has a book called eat it all and be thin forever. I plan on ordering it in the future but I already ordered a differnt book unrelated to dieting.

Losing it by laura fraser

The fat Instinct (I found it at the library. don't remember the authors name.)

another book I read was a doctors manuel at the library on obeisity studies or obesity. It is a large green text book for doctors. can't remember the exact title.

I read some interesting things in there.

Did you even READ what Meg wrote? I don't recall seeing "willpower" mentioned in any of our posts...

Ah, I see that one of your sources is First for Women, also known as the magazine that has a new miracle diet on the cover every week...(next to an article about 'no-fail cookies' or some such dessert recipe).

I am QUITE familiar with "Losing It" - even quoted it a few times. However, I regard the book as more of an expose of what goes on behind the diet industry - not as a manifesto for fat acceptance or giving up control of what you put into your mouth (or for that matter, blaming others for your own self-induced condition of obesity).

Meg summed it up better than I could...It's all about choices. I assume that you are an adult...no one forces you to eat the junk food....or buy it at the store and keep it in your house. If you are a fat adult, for the most part, it's not because someone is force-feeding you like a foie gras duck - it's because you are making the choice to eat too much and not exercise enough.

That's why I made the choice 12 years ago to make some major PERMANENT LIFESTYLE CHANGES in my life. Is it easy? - not at first, but it gets easier and the rewards of being a healthy weight are rich - both mentally AND physically.

I dunno - I'm getting the impression that you're either not reading what we're saying here...so I might be wasting my time by posting the following snippet from an excellent book by Michael Fumento, The Fat of the Land: The Obesity Epidemic and What Americans Can Do to Help Themselves but what the heck - maybe someone else will get something out of it...

Thanks for the great post! I think I'll head to the library later and see if they have a copy of "Fat of the Land"

Antidieter, I agree with all of the other posters in this thread, and also agree with MrsJim that maybe you haven't read them completely. There were a lot of valid points made. As the others stated, it's all about choices. We all got fat the same way. We consumed more than we burned.

If willpower really does seem like a supernatural strength to you, then you might want to focus less on this "famine response" topic and look into the emotional aspects of eating. This is a common issue with many dieters. Dr Phil's book on weight loss addresses these issues. There really isn't anything new in there, that hasn't been promoted by major health organizations before, but his book lumps it into one resource. It's solid advice that has helped a lot of people confront these issues and find the courage to make the right choices.

Good luck in your journey.

Got to jump in...
Antidieter: Congratulations on finding out what works for you. Your viewpoint shows that there are as many different measures of success as there are approaches to getting there. I believe that is the premise upon which this website was founded and why I enjoy the lively discussions here.

The reason I don't think your method would work for me is that the body adapts to its level of caloric intake. If you don't gradually eat less and less calories, your body becomes comfortable at that weight and that new scale measurement becomes your set point. I personally NEED to see the scale numbers decline on a regular basis (1 to 2 lbs/ wk).

In defense of WW, there is a gradual stepdown in calories to keep you losing. I think the "anorexia" you speak of comes into play when a person taking in 3500 calories a day suddenly drops down to 1000 calories a day. It is conceivable that they would have to eat like a bird due to their metobolism stalling out (Not to mention problems resulting from the drastic lack of energy and sense of well-being that this diet would bring about).

My other concern is you don't mention exercise as a positive factor. Not only does it have an effect on weight, but it also protects your bones, heart and lungs. Getting enough exercise is even more important than losing weight.

The other point I want to make is a person needs realistic weight goals. My "optimum" healthy weight is 150 lbs. That said, it is unrealistic for me to make that my goal. My lifestyle doesn't support a weight that low. I feel at 175 lbs I'll be at the low end of the overweight scale and that, combined with exercise should extend my life and enable me to feel good and enjoy any foods that I might desire in moderation.

This works for me. If you have found something that works for you, I applaud you. This is not an easy fight, but one I can't give up on. I have come close to my goal, only to gain the weight back. These trials have not been for nothing. One important lesson I learned that gives me the edge this time is that during times of stress or loss, my goal will be to maintain my weight, not lose, until things straighten out. That way I won't be taking off the same lbs. over and over.

you all make valid points, but I would like to add. what makes you think I eat junk food?

i seldom eat junk. in fact when I eat enough real foods I find that I don't crave junk.

and as for that article in the magezine how do you know it is not the exception to the rule with diet articles as they go, if you haven't read it?

if i misled anyone to think exercise is not important to good health I apologize. it is so healhty for us. but to do it just for weight loss can lead to a dislike to it. I exercise for the enjoyment and I don't force myself to do it, and I don't worry about caloires or good or bad foods.

also what is wrong with being fat? why can't people just except the person as they are, and realize that it is not a character flaw that got them that way? there are so many contradictions on obesity causes this disease or that disease that no one can agree.

why do you suppose there is such hatred for fat people. afterall they are humans first and foremost. I personally hate being fat but not because of what others think but because I cannot do the things I once did, tho gradually my energy is coming back and I am walking again.

but that is no reason to think when you see a fat person that they have the sin of gluttony, or laziness or anything else that is negative for that matter.

many overweight people (especially the obese) that I have known and you probably know some who are kind, loving indivdiuals that are very intelligent.

hardly character flaws to me. try reading the references. they can explain things better than me. these are those who have been there done that and those in recovery thos who lost and kept it off as well as others who are just starting out or haven't made a decision yet.

as for willpower to maintain the weight loss through dieting efforts it takes extreme willpower to stay within a certain maintenance caloric limit to avoid the weight gain, that the body is desperatly trying to achieve all for the sake of our pitiful survival.

if you don't have to use willpower and it is not much effort for you to maintain the weight loss then you can consider yourself fortuanant.

think about this, if it takes discipline to get thin and stay that way does that mean those who are thin and have been all their lives are thin because they are disciplined? do they maintain it because they exercise self control or is it because they are body controlled eaters and dieting or food quality and quantity is not even considered in their vocabulary?

is it because they are one of those who have a very low famine senstivity or they never worry about caloires or diets and thus the battle with the body never begins?(i know this type person is getting rarer and rarer)

I know that socity automatically assumes that thinner people have more positive qualities such as self control, or are smart or whatever and fat people are automatically assumed to be gluttons or whatever negative qualities people dislike, but I am sure you know some naturally thins who are not self controled or smart or kind or loving.

Hey all -

I've been watching this thread and I have to say that I'm surprised at the tone that's been taken. This is a forum that's been very diversified and offers valuable input. There's no reason to bash individual choices for their health, diet, or anything else out there.

AntiDieter - Please keep in mind that we all come from different places. Why on earth would anyone expect that we would all take the same path even if there is a common goal? It's the diversity and the experience that's important here. I'm glad you found something that works for you, but I don't think the tone you've taken is going to get you many "converts".

...hmmmm....interesting thread.

I agree with you there, StarPrincess!

While I can respect everyone's opionion, my personal philosophy is live and let live. I am quite happy with my "plan" and don't consider myself to be on a diet. I have the simple desire to eat in a healthy, well-blanced manner and take care of myself physically. If I lose weight along the way great-if not so what . My main goal is to be healthy and fit.

I do my thing and I don't try to convert other people to my way of thinking-what works for them works for them and what works for me works for me.

I have been posting on this site for some time now and have always been happy with the level of support and the diversity of people and ideas available here.

I was unaware that I was being disrespectful. When I read some of the posts to what I have learned I felt like I was being yelled at. that didn't cause me to say in kind.

I wish everyone success.

I would like to say to Antidieter that I don't think anybody here was telling you that you were lazy, or a gluton. We're a message board full of people with either weight problems now, or problems in the past! Many of us have been pegged for the same stereotype as well, and they were honestly trying to share with you their own reasons (or other popular reasons) for not losing weight, which if you read back over, you will see. I am glad I read this thread, because I found one or two excuses that I've been fooling myself with, as well. Mine - I have PCOS. I tend to lose weight about 1 pound a month. On good months I lose 2 pounds a month. Why don't I do it every month? Because I get frustrated and nibble. Who can work hard all the time for just a pound? I get frustrated and I go off of it. Therefore, I can't keep blaming PCOS. It's the difference of 8-12 pounds a year to 18-24 pounds a year. It adds up! If I plainly didn't go off my plan, I could see the difference. Instead, sometimes I don't lose at all. I didn't look at it from that perspective until tonight. This bare bones, lay it all out in the open approach has helped a lot of successful dieters, like MrsJim, Bicker, Meg and Aphil.

I think a lot of the tone that was expressed to you was because those people have read numerous results on weight loss and related issues from controlled studies and they did not match up to your plan at all. Also, as people with former weight problems, many of us have been fed so much crap from wonder diets, that it is normal to review new plans with a critical eye. We've seen dieters be swindled and taken advantage of for years!

The other members were asking you for your references because basically you were posting bits from the book that have never been proven before, but when you replied, you did not provide or acknowledge those requests, so the questioning continued. If you have any back up data, I'm sure people would be happy to read it. I'm sure the author of the book included that. Responding instead with a link to another message board (your own?) isn't very convincing!

I think that's really the crux of the point. The request for evidence of efficacy and safety was made several times. How should be read the refusal to respond, if not as disrespect?

With respect to the European way of life...

I have been over there several times as I have relatives in Europe and they do walk a lot more, they also have more street level shopping and less malls so you end up walking, taking the bus or subway and walking the rest of the way and strolling through the shopping district.

My family owns a bakery in Scotland and I remember visiting one summer for 6 weeks. Everyday I went into the store they gave me free goodies like strawberry tarts loaded with fresh cream and sugar donuts - I never ate like that at home. When I got home I had somehow managed to lose 5 lbs .

I think part of it is that Europeans are more active on a daily basis-they seem to go out more and stroll the main streets and sit in cafes and things like that. Also they seem to take more time out for themselves and eating is a pleasure to be savored not rushed - we always stopped for tea breaks when I was visiting my relatives, no matter where we were.

Also they seem to rely on fresh ingredients more and eat less processed foods although they do have convenience foods and fast food outlets.

Another point from your post anitdieter, that I wanted to bring up was saying talking about "those who have not had a hard time keeping off the weight/losing the weight" as in MrsJim, Meg, etc. I for one can tell you that they have not had anything "easy".
They have worked for it...They are always in the gym and making conscious decisions about their diet. It was nothing easy.
I can tell you that I lost a lot of weight and kept it off until becoming pregnant, and now I am slowly losing it from my last child-and will once again keep it off. It is not that it is "easy" or that I have willpower of steel...I have made exercise a priority in my life, and make what I eat a "mind" decision and not emotional. I do stray occasionally and eat something I shouldn't-none of us are perfect-but the key is to get right back on track again rather than to "feast mindlessly" the rest of the week.
I am sorry-I don't believe the principles behind the one book you recommended that compares us to animals and says that eating over 2000 calories-even of high quality foods can be a "famine". If I were training for a marathon maybe...but not with my current 45-60 minutes of exercise each day. No amount of reading about that will make me a "convert". I have lost and kept it off before my pregnancies using a moderate diet and exercise...and will do it again. I still eat a good amount of food-I am not starving...and it works for me. I am at a high risk of diabetes, and I cannot wait around for 4 years while my body "accepts its natural weight" and slowly starts losing with that plan.
I do not think there is anything wrong with being fat if that is the way someone wants to be...two of our best friends (a couple) together weight about 650 pounds...I don't care that they are fat-they are fun and I like them. I am concerned with their health problems that stem from it...but what they weigh is not my decision. For me-I don't want to be fat. It has nothing to do with the models and actresses in the magazines...it is because I am unhappy with my flabby arms and big butt, and because my aunt died from diabetes complications a few years a go when she was in her forties...I am only 28 and had gestational diabetes, and I don't want to be dead when my kids are teenagers. So accepting my fat and being happy with it are not an option for me.
I think this site is a great one, but I felt like you came here and immediately were looking for "converts" for your plan and began bashing all diet and exercise as a means to lose weight. If it works for you that is great-but everyone has plans that work for them too-and you need to respect that. I count calories, MrsJim has done Body For Life, Mauvais has done Weight Watchers...and we are all doing well with whatever we have chosen. The 98% of failed diets you talked about has nothing to do with if a plan works...the reason diets fail is because people want to lose weight quickly and then be finished with the work. They gain weight back because they slow or stop the exercise, and they slowly go back to eating the way that made them fat. I prefer not to call any of the plans that we do here "diets". They have to be plans that you can stick with for life...if you stop doing it, you will gain it back. My friend Mike struggles with this...he has successfully lost 30 pounds over an over with Atkins, but he refuses to go on to the "maintenance" part of the diet, and gains it back every time. This is why diets fail...it is not the fault of the plan, but the fault of the person who doesn't make a lifestyle change-and sees it as a short term commitment.
Aphil