Hmm, i know pants size change w/manufacturers and cuts but i do have a size 12 from the late 80's that i kept (AWFUL style, lol--the really high waisted, loose thigh and tight ankle heavy denim) and i remember how i LOOKED in those and i was a "normal" weight...and i now fit into them (however now sadly it's a bit tight in the waist and loose in the booty and i was the opposite at 20 ) I now wear a size 12 in most of the jeans i have that i have bought in the last 6 months and 1 size 10 so yep--same size when i was in my 20's and a good SHAPE

As far as the scale, i will probably go get my neighbors because i think it is a good idea to have one but mostly i go by how my clothes feel from day to day!

I couldn't care less about BMI and I'm glad you got your epiphany! I said in another thread that I have 'controversial' opinions on things like that so your thread is timely.

Let me just say for me, I home-birthed both my babies med-free at over 300 lbs. On paper you'd think I was an athlete because of my bloodwork. Perfect. Blood pressure, perfect. I took a blood pressure reading at 9 months pregnant and it was like 115/75. I can run a mile without stopping or feeling like I'm dying.(although I don't particularly like to run lol)

but enough about me... the point is... I agree with you 100%. Don't torment yourself over weight goals. Don't set a specific number. Normal is just a dryer setting and "shoulds" are dangerous. I also agree with you that most "experts" are just people who did well in college lol There is no one-method-fits-all approach.

I can't exactly say I'm losing weight for health because judging by all the EXPERTS' criteria I'm extremely healthy *shrug*. You can almost feel the resentment when I go to the doctor because I'm fat and they can't berate me for it jk

I'm losing weight to feel better in my own skin. To do more things that I want to do easier. To wear cuter clothes. To feel (literally) lighter. To feel like weight is not a hindrance to anything I set my heart to.

If that happens at 199, I'll stop there. If it happens at 175, I'll stop there. If it happens at 140, I'll stop there.

And it sounds like you're feeling like that too... and congratulations for being there It's a more peaceful place to be.

Great post, Melissa, thoughtful and thought-provoking. Like you, I enjoy exercise so an hour a day isn't an undue hardship, but I don't want to be hungry or not eat foods I enjoy. I struggle with overindulgence on the eating front and always will, so my quest is to find a weight I can maintain with a reasonable amount of effort but at which I don't feel like a fat loser (as I do presently). I'm pretty healthy and have a lot of new clothes that fit nicely, so maybe I should find an attainable goal and stop feeling like a failure for not getting to my original goal weight (which is what I weighed in my 20s, the only other time I got thin). It's something to ponder.

Well, that "was" me too - until I got to be somewhere after 35 and before 40. I was always strong. I never got sick. My blood work was always spot on perfect.

I too had med free natural births of two kids (though not home births, but in the hospital using midwives).

But something changed. I now realize that all or nearly all my problems (high blood pressure, high blood sugar, skipping heart beats, high cholesterol, total lethargy and daily, nonstop headaches) were all caused by a nearly nonfunctioning thyroid. As soon as that was fixed, so were the health problems.

HOWEVER, I knew the weight, if not the root of the thyroid problem, it was still a burden on my body and I needed to get that under control. Plus, I do just feel better being fitter and thinner. More than anything, exercising regularly keeps me out of a funk - especially in the winter months. So... I will keep at it as I like how 'thinner' feels.

That's interesting. I have no clothes from then, but I have a LLBean wool pleated skirt from 1995 that is a size 16 and it fits me perfectly NOW when otherwise I wear 10s in everything else, but 12s in LLBean of today (their waists tend to be smaller than other brands and I've lost my waist).

See the word you chose there, "Failure" No way is your journey in any way a failure! Look at what you have done? The only failure is not seeing the success!

I used to want to get down to 130 because that would be right in the middle of my ideal range according to the BMI. Then I had my fat measured and they told me to get down to 150.

It was so difficult for me to think that I would lose so much less weight. Like I was cheating. Like I would lose less weight because I didn't want to try and lose more and not because I wouldn't have to. And I was still above 200! I find it so stupid now. I've set 152 (highest normal in the BMI) because I like having a specific goal like that, but I don't know what my goal weight is. Nobody does. Especially if you've never been thin.

Yay for you!!!!! This is pretty much the conclusion I came to for myself during my weight loss journey...

Be at peace!!

I have given up the scale! I was absolutely ruled by it. I know what I eat is right, my exercise is right and my clothes fit fab. This has helped me stay in maintenance . I think the scale and it's dictates would have derailed me. I know from when I last weighed that I am up a few lbs from my original goal weight, but I can live with it. I look better that I ever have, and thats enough for me. I know I have to stick to my plan to stay slim. But I have to stick to it for life, so stressing over lbs here and there would not be good at all.

Well...I'm not going to win anyone over with my thoughts here but I believe BMI charts are valid. I agree, a few pounds off isn't the end of the world but people should try to stay within a certain range. If I was a size 12 I could fit very comfortably in a size 18 but that doesn't mean I'm at a healthy weight...especially the older I get. In the 50's nobody put kids in car seats either but that doesn't mean we shouldn't use them. I realize that's an apples and oranges comparison but you get the idea. I'm glad you have come to the conclusion to be at peace with your weight (you should!) but to say, "to h*ll with scales and charts" is a mentality too much like playing Russian Roulette for some of us. For me it's vital, necessary information.

*puts on flame suit

I think the chart is a valid guideline for people who are unhealthy on either extreme and know absolutely nothing about health/fitness/body composition. Once you get smart about all that stuff you don't really need it, you know your own physiology well enough to figure out what is "healthy" for you.

I happen to be one of those people whose "sweet spot" is directly in the middle of the "healthy" BMI range.

Berryblonde, thank you posting this! Your words have clunked me on the head! I am very grateful to you, for taking time to share this!

In 2012, I made the commitment to lose enough weight to FINALLY be in a normal BMI range. For me, this meant getting to 140, which is the high number for normal range for me. I got to 142 in October... and stalled.

I joked to people that I have been merely practicing my maintenance all this time. And really, I suppose I have. But every Friday when I weigh myself, I see 142, or 143 or somewhere in between. And I started to get frustrated.

But then I thought about my journey. Sure, I set a goal to weigh X, but what else have I won? I'm an insulin dependent diabetic, and my A1C levels are now in a very good place. I am no longer tired. I eat better, so I am not experiencing the blood sugar highs and lows that damage my body. I FEEL GREAT. I still enjoy going out to eat, but I am smarter about where I go, and what I choose. And I am ENJOYING MY LIFE.

So now its 2013, and I have shifted my focus. Yes, I will still weigh in weekly, but now I am focusing on fitness. I calorie count, and continue to do that, probably for the rest of my life. Because it works for me, and keeps me in check. Now my goals are more like "I will work on my abs this week" or "I will ride my bike X miles", or "I will eat no processed foods this weekend" instead.

I know that, if I really stick to this plan, a byproduct of it is the last stubborn couple of pounds will finally leave me. And if not? I still feel better than I have in about 10 years and I am active. So the scale no longer defines me.

Amen! Feels great to say something I finally, actually believe!

What a fabulous perspective. I think it is so much easier for us in some ways to focus on a number as a goal and lose sight of what we really want to achieve. I've already made peace with the fact that my goal weight is still in the "overweight" range in the BMI scale. I've set a weight goal, but it is only an estimation of where I want to be. I'm still afraid that some where along the way I will lose sight of that.

If I had to focus on a number that should be my true indicator of progress it would be body fat percentage. I'm just not sure how to easily and accurately measure that at home. (My scale supposedly does it but I'm not sure how accurate that is.) It is just so much easier to use weight and a scale as a quick way to measure success.

BMI wasn't designed for individuals but has been co-opted for them because it's very easy to measure and does have some correlates with health outcomes.

If you're interested, here's a decent article about the history and use of BMI: http://www.slate.com/id/2223095/

One excerpt:
"Belgian polymath Adolphe Quetelet devised the equation in 1832 in his quest to define the "normal man" in terms of everything from his average arm strength to the age at which he marries. This project had nothing to do with obesity-related diseases, nor even with obesity itself. Rather, Quetelet used the equation to describe the standard proportions of the human build—the ratio of weight to height in the average adult. Using data collected from several hundred countrymen, he found that weight varied not in direct proportion to height (such that, say, people 10 percent taller than average were 10 percent heavier, too) but in proportion to the square of height. (People 10 percent taller than average tended to be about 21 percent heavier.)"

And later:
"Keys had never intended for the BMI to be used in this way. His original paper warned against using the body mass index for individual diagnoses, since the equation ignores variables like a patient's gender or age, which affect how BMI relates to health. It's one thing to estimate the average percent body fat for large groups with diverse builds, Keys argued, but quite another to slap a number and label on someone without regard for these factors."

Note also that the cutoff for overweight and obese were changed in 1998. So some people who had been at the high of "normal" were now "overweight" simply because someone liked having more "round" values. They also made the cutoffs the same for men and women.

So, the history of BMI is that it's a number that's easy to calculate that was never designed to be used on individuals and has been applied somewhat arbitrarily.

Thank you so much for sharing all that history of the BMI, a lot of that I've read before but not with that level of detail. But one thing that didn't dawn on me was that the BMI cutoffs are the same for men AND women. Women naturally carry more weight than men even when we are slim. Just one more reason for me to toss the BMI chart out the window.