As a college professor, I do understand when my students make occasional errors in their papers. It's not a big deal. But when it becomes a pattern, it does take away from the elegance of the paper, even when it doesn't impede my understanding. I don't think I've read a really well argued paper that was riddled with grammatical errors. So while an error here or there isn't a problem, I think it pays off when people (at least my students) put care into their grammar.

But when I correct a point and they continue to make the mistake, that bothers me.

As for affect/effect... when you're considering the issue of cause and effect, effect is a noun and affect is a verb. For example: "Exercise has a positive effect on depression." vs "Exercise affects depression."

However, affect as a noun can also refer to "mood" or "emotion" as in "She has a very flat affect and I never know what she's feeling."

I teach high school English. We do cover it, promise. Along with too/two/to and their/there/they're--the three that always seem to bother people the most. But unless you're willing to spend time on drill-and-kill type methods, getting grammar concepts to really stick are difficult. I know I have about 100 standards I'm supposed to "teach" in a single school year: correct grammar is ONE of those.

I will say I think it is unfair to measure someone's grammatical ability by their posting on casual conversations. Formal writing, by all means, judge away. But message boards and general Internet forums have more laid back approach to grammar.

When I was studying German in high school and college, I had the good fortune of having two (of five) teachers who pointed out which mistakes we made - were also common to native German speakers.

It really gave me an understanding that some mistakes were just easier to make than others (and in fact, if it's a "common" enough mistake, it also becomes a legitimate, but alternative usage - as in the difference between formal and colloquial speech).

I also used to be a huge spelling and grammar snob - until I was diagnosed with, and came to understand fibromyalgia.

As a result of my illness, I often have written and spoken communication difficulties. For example, I periodically lose the ability to use grammar and spelling correctly. I thought my spelling and grammar were "inate" or at least ingrained, because I didn't "think" about correct spelling and grammar, I just used them mostly with very few errors. I rarely had to think about homonyms like they're/their/there, or too/two/to, I just used them correctly without thinking. When I did find errors during proofreading, they were usually typos rather than mistakes.

Now, especially when I'm flaring (pain, fatigue, and cognitive issues called "brain fog" by fibro sufferers), I find myself spelling phonetically - even words that I never, even as a child mispelled once learning. I once caught myself spelling the word "was" as W-U-Z.

My best guess (because fibromyalgia is believed to be a neurotransmitter problem) is that I'm resorting to phonetic spelling when my brain can't access the normal pathways.

I can still find most of the errors when I carefully and repetitively proofread (though instead of proofreading in one pass, I now have to make several, and instead of proofreading by sight alone, I now also read out loud to myself as I do, because it helps me find the errors).

Eight years ago, I would have NEVER have proofread my posts on an informal forum like this one. Now, I have to proofread for both grammar and spelling - and I still will find mistakes - sometimes after five or six passes.

One of the reasons I've had to curtail my time here, is because I was spending too much time and effort communicating here, and avoiding real-time communications, even with my husband.

I like coming here, especially when I'm flaring, because it's a lot easier to communicate here, than in the real world - because I have the opportunity to review, and edit. However the comfort level has also helped me avoid rather than practice and deal with "real life" communications. I found myself disliking, fearing, and even avoiding in-person and real-time forms of communication. Even when I saw it (my husband actually brought it to my attention - many times), I had a hard time doing something about it, because it's "safe" here and my communication problems aren't as noticeable to anyone but me - I don't have to "explain" why I'm speaking like I'm intoxicated or "suddenly stupid," when I might have been fine a week, or even an hour ago.


In spoken communication, my fibromyalgia flares cause much more disruption (I originally wrote disruptive - and didn't notice it during the several edits. This is also a mistake, I never would have made before). It's incredibly frustrating, and deeply embarassing, because during a severe flare, I not only often will find difficulty finding the right words, I will use completely wrong words, invent words when I can't think of the "right" one, and repeat myself constantly (because my short-term memory doesn't work right - I can tell the same story three times in an hour long conversation with someone, and not realize it). I also often stutter (though I never did before the diagnosis - not even as a child) and slur words (so I can sound intoxicated). Sometimes I don't notice the problem (until my husband points them out, or I notice perplexed stares from those with whom I'm trying to communicate). Other times I notice these problems but can do nothing to prevent them (and it's really frightening when I KNOW I'm slurring my words, but can't stop it, not even by speaking very slowly and carefully).


As a result of my "new" language problems, I'm much more tolerant of language and communication mistakes and problems than I've ever been before, though I still get a little crazy when I see "loose" being used where "lose" is correct, as in "I want to loose weight". I see we now have a grammar corrector - because I typed "loose" but it is showing up correctly as "lose." Here, I'll try it again, and see if I can get it to print "wrong" as in "loose" weight.

I see it so often, even in formal writing such as magazine articles, that I have to ask, "Have the rules changed?"

Is "loosing" now considered a correct variant of "losing"?


I don't mind it here as much as in newspapers and magazines, but I've seen it so often in formal settings that I wouldn't be suprised if it eventually becomes a legitimate alternative (all "living" languages are constantly changing and today's errors or slang may be standard or correct in a few years).

the one that bothers me the most is a spoken mistake, though occasionally i see it written... the supposedly vs supposably mistake. DRIVES ME NUTS. though i do get the whole then/than, to/too/two, there/their/they're and alot/a lot irritation. it makes me cringe when it's a professional writer or teacher that makes those kind of mistakes.

Thank you all so much for the replies and for not shooting me! Haha. I used to get into trouble a lot on American boards when I was in my teens because us Dutchies are more 'direct' and it seemed to offend people.

I see now that it is not the single case of then/than but that generally people seem to have issues with words that sound the same but are written differently. I see how that can happen when it is not stressed so much in school. I guess that because it's my second language the importance of how things are written over how they sound makes me notice more. Knowing that then/than are written differently but spoken the same is kinda the only way to make sure I don't pronounce it incorrect.

Here we have one grammar rule that everybody always messes up (including me) but it is such a difficult one to remember and in the end the words sound the same and the meaning is clear that I often do it wrong myself. For those interested: It's where you put verbs into past tense or when you conjugate them they sometimes end in a d, t or dt. While the basic verb does not even have a d, t or dt. Annoying little grammar thing that is!

I get that on these boards it should not matter, and I don't think it matters. The reason I asked though is because it's something I see so often in other places too. And everytime it makes me stop and wonder why it is done so. But I now have my answer! Where I am at, and people I know are sticklers for language, but I hang out with a lot of journalist friends and politicians. So I guess it is of more importance then anyhow.

Thanks again for not shooting me! Hihi.

"The wrong versions of the right words" is a pet peeve of mine. That being said...

I'm by no means perfect. Often, I'll catch a spelling/grammatical error only after I've hit "post", and then need to go back and fix it. I'm a post proofreader

Then/than tends to be a "light" one. I see your/you're more often.

I agree that when you're typing along with a thought that sometimes the wrong word gets typed. It happens. Especially on "casual" internet places.

There are a few reasons why you might be noticing it in certain places:

1) Some people care more. It's true. Some people want the details to be correct, and seeing them wrong is like a 2x4 to the face.

2) Someone wasn't doing their job very well that day when the error got through. We're human. It happens.

3) English isn't your first language. When we learn the rules for something new, we have a tendency to question things that look wrong. We are trying to follow these rules, and it sticks out to us when others (even others who have been doing it longer) are doing it incorrectly.

As an example to that... just last week I was learning to play a few new board games with my brother. He'd played them before. I asked a lot of (annoying) questions, and pointed out a move that he'd mistakenly made.

It wasn't a "you're doing it wrong" thing. It was a "I'm newer to this. You said we can't do that. Why are you doing that?" thing.

It is only rarely that a person doesn't understand the rules behind things like you're/your, then/than, their/they're/there. In many cases either they made an error, or they don't care that they made an error.

My brother is a math teacher and basketball coach. His spelling is terrible, when he would write a letter to our Mother I had to translate it for her. I would say to him ,"But you are a teacher" , his standard answer, "Yes, but I don't teach English."

Than/Then bugs me, but not to the extent that your/you're, there/their/they're, to/two/too and its/it's do.

I don't harp on my younger students if they do this. But my seventh and eighth graders know I will not be a happy camper if they make this mistake

I also tutor my high school age brother and I DO NOT let him get away with that. Granted I can be a bit more...ah...militant with him since he's my brother, but I do yell at him for making those mistakes since he should know better

Back in graduate school I actually went crazy on my group in one class because they made so many grammar mistakes that I had to correct. I remember saying to them "We're going to be teachers! We need to know this stuff!" and they probably called me every name under the sun... but come on! elementary school teachers need to know that stuff!

When you're learning a second language, you tend to be reading it and hearing it at the same time (so you'll listen to your teacher speak, and read the words in a book). It seems to me like it would be easier to get very firm on how the different spellings are used if you were doing both at once, but when you're learning your FIRST language, you listen first, THEN learn to write/spell, meaning that sort of confusion is probably more common (just like you make a grammar mistake in your native language where the two spellings sound the same, but are used differently).

My best friend is Dutch. I love his directness.

I tend to think that we are moving too far in the 'it's not a big deal' direction.

Then/than requires a bit of reflection, like effect/affect. But 'alot,' and lose/loose, etc, to me just scream that the poster doesn't read often. They are making a mistake that is based on intimate familiarity with the spoken word only.

I myself struggle with proper sentence construction, however- I wish sentence diagramming would be brought back into the public school curriculum everywhere. I don't have a concrete rule hiding out in the back of my brain for subjects/objects/predicates, but base my construction solely on doing a great deal of reading.

As good as I am with words like there/their/they're and lose/loose and then/than, etc... affect/effect STILL causes me problems. Does something effect me... or affect me? Can't it be both? ARGH!

To the original post: I don't think it's that US schools don't "teach it" or "drill it" enough. I think that some kids are just better at grammar/spelling and some are better at math/science. I've noticed that those people I know who are really good at math are often not quite so good at grammar/spelling. Case in point: when I was in college, my boyfriend was really good at math. He TRIED (bless his heart) to help me with "simple algebra" but I just couldn't grasp it. Or maybe he just wasn't a good "teacher" of it... his roommate, a math whiz, was able to tutor me easily & I had a B average in math after that. However, my boyfriend, a very smart & capable person (artist!!) couldn't spell worth a ****. He was flunking English 101 because they had spelling tests every week & he was averaging a 35 grade!! - But ONE session with me tutoring him and he increased his weekly spelling test grade to an 85 average.

So see, some people are what I refer to as "number or fact minded" (math, science) and others are "word/memory" minded (English, history). And of course some are good at all of it. I'm just say'n.

This is the one that gets me!

BEFORE
B-E-F-O-R-E not B4
Geeze, speak ENGLISH peeps, not fricken BINGO!
'nuff said!

and don't be knocking my geeze & 'nuff & fricken- because yanno I'm just sayin....

The one that irritates me the most, especially on forums like this one, is lose/loose/loss. Those aren't even like to/too, they are completely different words! If I read about one more person wanting to loose XX pounds, I think I'll scream.

Your/you're does bother me as well. But I will admit that I get affect and effect mixed up sometimes. I tend to just avoid those words. lol

I don't really recall this being beat into me in school. Maybe it was touched on but a lot of people I know still mix it up. I, myself, learned after I began posting on forums and it was pointed out to me. Otherwise, I'd still be mixing them up myself.

I do, however, remember spending what felt like a month+ studying how to diagram a sentence...which I doubt anyone remembers or uses...