Fruits & Vegetables

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  • I would disagree that calorie counting can't work this way, or that freebies are more (or less) amenable to exchange plans.

    Exchange plans aren't any better (or worsely) suited to "freebies" than any other form of calorie counting, because exchange plans ARE calorie counting, they're just counting in a different way (Whether you count by 1's, 5's, 25's 80's - or blocks of any size, and whether you're counting precisely, or through estimation - you're still counting).

    Each "exchange" is a block of pe-counted calories, and making some of the calorie blocks "free" doesn't necessarily doom you to failure. You just have to experiment and see whether the way you want to count, is effective for you (and if not, to tweak your method or your goals until you can make it work).

    If you allow "freebies" you just have to count differently, and you have to be able to make adaptions if your efforts don't work, or stop working at any point (but that's true of any kind of calorie counting).

    As to how the counting has to be different - it depends on the person. The simplest modification is simply lowering your calorie "target," for the day, to allow room for the freebies.

    For example if you gave yourself 1000 calorie "budget" and didn't count fruits and vegetables, you very well could lose weight. You would be eating more than 1000 calories of course, but unless you gorge yourself on fruits and vegetables, you may be able to lose weight just fine this way.

    Even if you didn't, you might be able to lose weight by lowering your target calories to 750 or even 500.

    If you're someone who can eat more than 1000 calories in fruit and veggies per day, this might not work (or may work only with a ridiculously low daily target - but who cares if it's ridiculous to anyone but you. If you make fruits and veggies free and your daily calorie target is 250 calories, so what?)

    You may have to be choosier about which fruits and veggies you count and which you don't.

    Fruits and starchy veggies like potatoes, corn, peas, even carrots are far easier to overeat than leafy veggies. A lot of people do quite well with calorie counting everything but low-cal veggies. Even so, their calorie target just needs to be lower than it would be if they counted everything (but how much lower will depend on the person)..


    A person who absolutely HATES fruits and vegetables may find them more tolerable if they're "free." Is such a person likely to eat 1000 calories in fruits and vegetables a day? Probably not. So reducing their calorie target by a couple hundred calories and making fruits and veggies "free" can be a great psychological strategy. This strategy may not work forever, but that's true of all types of calorie counting. What works today, may not work tomorrow.

    You have to take your own personal motivations and personal quirks in mind as well (and how much weight you lose, the more weight you have to lose, the less precise your counting has to be).

    I like veggies, but I'm not likely to eat more than 200 calories over and above my alottment, so if I've used all my exchanges for the day, and I am still hungry, choosing a few extra vegetables doesn't seem to stall my weight loss.

    I have to count fruit much more precisely because I can easily eat more than 1000 calories in fruit a day (although it may make me sick).

    My husband however, probably wouldn't have to count fruit, because there aren't many fruits he likes, and even the ones he does, he wants three or four bites, and that's it.

    My husband also wouldn't have to count "condiments" because he almost never uses any (in fact, he's actually philisophically opposed to most of them).

    I don't have to count all of them (I don't count a squirt of ketchup or mustard, but I count mayo as a fat exchange) but even the ones I don't count, I do have to account for them. Many exchange plans limit "freebies" to a certain number per day. I've not had to do that, but if my weight loss stalled because of condiments - I would have to make some type of adjustment, either limiting the number of "free dondiments" or trimming off one or two of my "pre-counted" exchanges to cover "the cost" of them).


    I could probably get away with not counting dairy (at least liquid dairy), because it takes all I've got to even get in my 2 daily dairy exchanges.


    The important thing is to remember is that whether or not you choose to count anything, it all counts. And "how much" is probably something you have to experiment with, to find out. If "freebies" are psychologically beneficial, you can adjust your target calories to make room for them.

    Calorie counting for weight loss is very much like financial budgeting - there are thosands of ways to create and stick to a budget. How strict you have to be or want to be with your budget, and how closely you have to or want to track is going to be a very individual decision.

    You don't have to count precisely, you just have to count precisely enough to get results. How precise is precise enough can only be determined by trial and error.
  • I agree that if you are counting calories you have to count everything. Fruits and many veggies can be very high is sugar, others starch, both of which most definitely counts against you from a weight loss perspective.

    Also, some veggies are much more nutrient dense than others. Kale, versus any kind of lettuce, is MUCH higher in calcium, vitamin A, and protein. It may be higher calories, but that is because it is far more nutritious. I suspect this same trend can be seen across vegetables of all kinds.

    ~Katy
  • Kimberley

    I am doing WW but I also count calories. When I count WWPP I don't count veggies or fruit but I do when I count calories. I count calories using MyPlate at livestrong. There is a little bit of inaccuracy I guess. For example, if something is a really minimal amount of calories -- a single slice of onion, for example -- then I might not take the trouble to count it. But, a true veggie serving or a salad I do count.

    That said, veggies generally are not a huge source of calories for me.
  • Kim, thanks for asking such a great question. I originally would have answered count everything, but I think kaplods gave some really sound advice. I think if going with a plan like that would definitely work. I think I might even try that out! Glad I read this thread.
  • I don't count anything under 10 calories, that is unless I'm eating a lot of them or its part of a whole/recipe. Say in a salad, I just add it to my calorie count for the whole salad. Or things like a mint or stick of gum.

    My reasoning is that I'm constantly rounding up my calories. I have this quirk that I can't stand any number that doesn't end in a 5 or a 0. So even if some thing is 36 calories I have to round it up to 40. For that reasoning I have some leeway with things under 10 calories. Also, I was an overly obsessive calorie counter and serious restricter in high school that, while I do take this seriously, I have to be cautious that I don't get obsessive again.
  • I count everything and keep an eye on micro nutrients. For example, yesterday was a bit higher in carbs so I was sure to be lower in fat to compensate... not obsessively but just to watch. I have to watch sodium very carefully etc...

    But as folks have said, there are multiple ways to do this. The best way is the way that works best for you!