Eliana- DING! Ive gotten my ambient HR as low as 36 BPM... wow! im in great shape, huh? Or maybe dropping my cals below 1100 caused EVERYTHING to slow down to become more efficient, HR included.....

I mean GEESH! how much more efficient can my body get?? Grrrrrrr

And as always, Tom Venuto is a wealth of great, ACCURATE information..... a source of truth is a SEA of "pseudo-science"... not to start a fight, but i personally include Taubes in the "pseudo-science category---- JUST MY OPINION


Also, a MUCH MORE accurate way to think of "starvation-mode" is METABOLIC ADAPTATION

This is correct. Our bodies are highly adapatable.

It is interesting that our bodies first reaction to fasting is to actually SPEED UP our metabolism. In the first 24-48 hours studies have shown an increase in BMR.

I suspect that most weight loss stalls are water retention, nothing more.

Mkroyer, I like your term better!

And Eliana, while it is true that sometimes an increase in calories is the ticket to jump-starting a stall (this is why I calorie cycle to hopefully avoid this in the first place) anyone and everyone who is of importance in the fitness realm have confirmed that as your weight goes down your caloric needs go with it. This is just a guess, but in keeping with the old tried and true calories in vs. calories out method, I would say that in cases where calories need to be added, maybe the caloric needs weren't being met in the first place and possibly not even be deemed a plateau, but where the body is hanging on to those calories, i.e. "starvation mode" or as mkroyer called it, metabolic adaptation.

I was given advice from a personal trainer here a few weeks ago to increase my calories. While I was tempted to do that out of desperation, I made adjustments to my workout instead and went with my gut instinct that my calories were fine. A few days later, I had lost another pound.

I agree actually. I could have written I now throw in a "cheat day" but I abhor the term. I didn't increase my calories overall. That would be counterintuitive to how I've come to naturally eat anyway. I do just fine on lower calories. But I've learned that throwing in ONE or two higher calorie days has broken me out of the slump.

Water retention. You ate more, your body relaxed and dropped the water.

I have problems also with the concept of starvation mode, it makes no sense to me. I try to stay at 1200 calories a day and I am often lower than that, I am not about to force myself to eat if I am not hungry. I am reaching a normal BMI and the weight is still going down, slower just because I have less too loose and the weight gain or stalls are always about water retention.

calories are converted to fat if they are not utilised, my bmr is 1600, my calories are 1200, burn a few more calories doing cardio and strenght training on a daily basis, where would my find the excess fuel if I do not provide it.

I agree with you on most occasions, but when I talk about a plateau, I'm talking about 2-3 months of intense exercise and restricted calories. I know what water retention looks like after a year of daily weighing. You don't just retain an extra two pounds of water and also drop nothing for 2-3 months.

I couldn't agree MORE!!! I know what people are trying to say when they use the term, but if it is part of the overall plan then it is not "cheating"

So your theory is what then? That a body in a caloric deficit is getting it
s energy needs met by ... ??? Then a higher calorie day or two restores hormonal balance after months of intense exercise and restricted calories?

Intense exercise in a heavy deficit is very stressful to the body (and a very bad idea), raising cortisol levels, and increasing water retention. 8-10 lbs or more is not uncommon especially in larger individuals.

Okay ladies please help me, what is the name of Leigh Peele's book that directly addresses this? It would be a great read for the OP.

John, I will let Eliana answer your question to her...

But I definitely agree on the detrimental consequences of extreme restriction of calories with intense exercise...adrenal issues (which I suppose is directly related to cortisol), the impact on the thyroid gland, the reproductive system, the heart and so on. Ok, well I will give MY answer to where the body is getting a "reserve" from..... It is taking away important function from all of the above-mentioned! I am a definite case study of it, ruining my body for over a year in the quest for a perfect body.

Like I said in my very 1st post though, in HINDSIGHT I was not too big to begin with so I malfunctioned very early on...and kept doing it anyway.

And I have to really watch those obsessive tendencies because now that my body is accustomed to being starved, if you will, it doesn't take much to put me back on that path of "robbing peter to pay paul". Our bodies will only bounce back for so many times in these extreme conditions. There are several studies out now which is searching to tie a link of thyroid disease to the great famine and how it seems to become a hereditary issue. Of course there are other causes.

All I can tell you is I am an experiment of one, as are we all. I have no scientific evidence to back up what I'm saying, and I didn't say all that much. But no, I do not think I was retaining 10 pounds of water for 10 (<-- oops, typo...should say 3) months? The scale stayed the same. My measurements stayed the same.

I don't debate well, so I'll step out. But I can tell you that what I did worked for me and has worked for others regardless of why.

Eliana, yes we are all different. What happened to me, I don't know if it's a "normal" process or not. I would have to see if there are studies with similar circumstances. I think there is something called a Minnesota study, but it was done on men, who we ALL know "seem" to be at an advantage at times concerning weight and eating. At least that is an argument between wives/husbands, LOL

I just don't have any thoughts on the water retention issue...I suppose anything is possible but I don't have any experience with it, that I know of.

Sascha-- the Metabolic REPAIR manual (along with Fatloss Troubleshoot)
They are my bibles......

Well we certainly agree on what works. Diet breaks, cheat days, refeeds ... whatever you want to call them, work.

We will have to disagree on the rest, I suppose. I believe water retention for 10 months is much more likely than your body's energy needs being met by thin air or your BMR slowing down to practically nothing.