i totally agree- i haven't had WLS, but i feel like you all have made the ultimate sacrifice- it's a complete lifestyle change and you have to adapt quickly. losing weight and keeping it off is a challenge, any which way you approach it.

take pride in yourself hun! you're doing great

To be quite honest I view WLS as harder. I did some research and decided it was not for me. To be successful you have to make life changes on food and exercise ON TOP OF a major surgery.

It is a brave choice.

Don't take this the wrong way, but as a person that was all set to go on the Gastric LapBand, I think that making those choices is one of the hardest things to do. It's something I knew I'd have to live with for the rest of my life, the surgery, the eating of specific things, etc. There is a HUGE commitment to that process. I'm not gonna sit back and say that I don't know people that have had the surgery's seen the sucess and gained it all back or at a large majority of it. I think the industry does a great job with teaching everyone how to get started and get the surgery but not work on some other core issues of eating. When of the largest reasons why I backed out of the LapBand was the support meetings. People there were openly and honestly talking about how they can/did cheat with the lapband. Many post op of about a year and lost about 65 lbs. At that point I had already done 25 myself.
No matter which way a person goes about it, I there has to be a commitment for success.
I do want to say there are people out there that judge people and honestly my husband is one of them. He DOES feel like it's the easy way out to get the surgery- and he too lost 100lbs himself the same way I did, through exercise and healthy intake. Even though he is my life partner for over the last 15 plus years, I let him think what he wants. I think you should do the same, does it really make a difference what other people think? No, because you are healthy and you make commitments/sacrifices every day for what you did, just be proud to be healthy!

I think WLS sounds SO painful and then your diet does a complete 360 almost overnight. That is not the easy way out!

I think, and I'm really guessing here, one of the reasons you get judged is because of what *some* people say or how they behave before their surgery.

I mean, and I really hope no one takes offense, many people that have WLS look at it, at least in the beginning as their savior, as their easy way out. We even read about celebrities that get the procedure so as to ensure they eat little portions.

And then this uninformed attitude, that the weight will fly off and they'll be skinny in no time from this magical procedure, starts to irk those that didn't have the procedure.

However, in the end, the person with WLS finds out that it is an extremely hard road - they may have complications, they still have to learn all of the same things with diet and exercising.

I think really anyone who think WLS is the easy way out is naive and maybe reacting to the naive people who get the surgery.

There is also this strong protestant ethic in america that you MUST do things on your own, alone, through your own will power. But - that sentiment is silly and naive as well!

Let me start by saying that I appreciate the support and sentiment of your post and this is NOT directed at you in particular, though I did use a quote of yours to illustrate a point. I don't feel judged by you and I think it's evident that you try not to judge people. That said.

I'm interested in who these "many" people are that everyone seems to know that have had the surgery and...

...think it's the easy way out
...think they won't have to change the way they eat
...don't learn anything about the procedure before doing it
...don't spend years trying everything else before doing it
...go right back to eating whoppers and big macs
...have no idea about nutrition
...think surgery is not going to be hard

I know a lot of people who have had the surgery and I don't know a single one who did any of those things. And I think it's funny that this quote: "I think, and I'm really guessing here, one of the reasons you get judged is because of what *some* people say or how they behave before their surgery." once again implies that the judgment people feel for having surgery is, on some level, deserved because of these mystery people who are just having surgery for the heck of it without ever having tried to put down the twinkies.

I know your post is intended to be supportive and overall it is,and I'm not trying to jump all over you. This is more about that I just find it exceptionally irritating that everyone assumes that people who have WLS have to "learn a lesson" about it not being easy or whatever. And that everyone (not you) has a friend or coworker who had Taco Bell delivered to the recovery room and ate their way through the surgery and got fat and died.

Can you imagine if I went around and said things like "Oh, you're a calorie counter? I tried that and gained all of my weight back and 17 of my coworkers all did calorie counting and 9 of them got malnutrition because they didn't do the calorie counting right and ate all of their calories in Mallomars and cheez-whiz and the others all gained the weight back. They probably thought calorie counting was an easy fix and didn't bother to learn how to do it properly or that it was a lifestyle change." It would be totally rude and dismissive and make people feel bad. Yet it's perfectly fine for people to say that kind of thing about surgery.

I have a friend who did just that. Fast food was too much of a friend and she has gained about 100 pounds more than before she had the surgery. She was not required to get counseling and I think that is what she needed.

Well...people DO kinda do that about calorie-counting. I had a friend tease me about going on a "retro diet" to go along with my love of mid-century modern art and architecture. I've also been instructed to "eat the RIGHT calories" (which I agree with in theory, but then I have to hear five different theories on what "right calories" are) and have even heard (in the past) that counting calories just plain does not work, even that it's dangerous because it "encourages disordered eating with all that measuring and weighing."

When I write an article, people don't generally offer unsolicited advice on how to improve it, where to cut it, where to embellish it. I make money (albeit not much, heh!) to write and they don't, so they assume I have greater expertise in the field than they do. On weight loss, however, everyone feels like an expert because chances are very good they've tried to lose weight themselves.

I've tried Jenny Craig, Atkins, Slimfast, the Cambridge diet, SBD, Sugarbusters, some godawful thing involving eating nothing but melons and grapefruit, another even worse thing involving only cabbage soup...the only common denominator is that every single diet I tried drew "OMG, that'll never work, I knew someone who tried that and her spleen exploded and she died!" comments from at least one person. Sometimes they were boneheaded or unhealthy plans, but other times they weren't, even though they wound up not being right for me in the long term. Either way, it wasn't really polite for others to poke their noses in and offer unsolicited advice.

I've learned not to share much with anyone but a few people close to me (and the fine folks at 3FC, of course! ) because I'd rather they saw the results, not the process. If they happen to notice that I'm in a new dress or that I no longer huff and puff halfway through the mall, awesome! If they don't, that's fine too; I'm seeking my own approval here, not theirs.

I can imagine how frustrating it must be to have taken the life-changing (and life-saving) step of WLS only to be hit with a constant barrage of why it's "not a guarantee/not magical/not the easy way out/the easy way out/dangerous/whatever" that people undoubtedly like to say, but I think that's true of a lot of life's choices.

Ah would there be a life without judgement. Oh well, I just focus on how I live MY life, and just know that easy or not, it is the life I chose for myself. Now I find the positives and move on.

Love yourself enough to give yourself the best this life has to offer and let the rest roll off your back like so many ducks.

Rachael- I don't take your response as offensive. I completely understand.

It was a hard post to write, because I don't feel it applies to any of the people that visit this forum. The people that visit this forum want to know how to really change and how to do it the right way, how to improve. So, they do research upon research and weigh all of the evidence and meditate on it and ask questions.... and you certainly fit this profile.

However, now that WLS is more commonplace, most of us have known people or have had family members that go into it a bit naively - then they learn how difficult it truly is.

And I have to agree with Nola Celeste - people do say negative things about calorie counting all of the time. And they also think you are just plain crazy and obsessive for keeping close track of your food.

But, one of the reasons that we all want the weight to come off is because, quite frankly, extra weight is seen as a weakness of character in our society. So, that we let ourselves get heavier already stigmatizes all of us and puts us in the same boat together.

There is no way to lose weight that someone won't think is wrong.

I feel I really did take the easy way to weight loss, and some people didn't (and don't) take me seriously because of it. At first I didn't either (and quite frankly now I feel it doesn't matter one way or the other).

Instead of going through a typical diet or wls, I chose to only make changes that I could emvision comfortably (and easily) incorporating for the rest of my life, whether or not weight loss resulted. And when those changes were habits, I'd make more changes (just as comfortable and easy).

I chose the easy way, because I was sick and tired of the hard way (and by hard way I mean doing things that required so much effort on my part that every other area of my life suffered).

As a result, my weight loss has been so slow, it would never sell as a weight loss book (How to lose less than 20 lbs a year by barely trying).

But am I supposed to be ashamed of the fact that I haven't worked very hard? Some people say yes. Pbflbt to them.

If I ever win the lottery, I will not be ashamed that I didn't work to earn it. When I was working, I didn't feel guilty about my desk-job income, just because some people have to work a whole lot harder to get a much smaller paycheck.

I think it boils down to your motivation for losing weight. Do you need to feel proud of it (not do you feel proud of it, but do you NEED to feel proud of it). Is the pride worth as much or more than the weight loss? Do you need to feel you worked harder and longer for it than any one else? DO you need to be admired for it?

I realized that I had no one to impress - not even myself. Slow and easy is just fine with me. I LIKE easy, Easy is good, it frees more time up for the things in my life that I feel are more important (yes, I know it's virtually diet-sacrelige to put anything above weight loss, but I do). Slow isn't as fun as fast would be, but it's the price I pay for the easy. When I try to do it faster, the results never seem to match the effort. Comparing my current way to my "old way," it seems like I have to put fifty times the effort to receive only three times the results. I get sick of that pretty fast, so it works better for me to exchange fast for easy.

You don't have to impress anyone - even yourself, you just have to be satisfied with your work. Does it really matter to you if your weight loss isn't the Mona Lisa of acheivements? Can't it just be ok to do an adequate job and leave it at that?

great discussion, folks! and kaplods - i thiink you've hit on the perfect analogy:

I didn't feel guilty about my desk-job income, just because some people have to work a whole lot harder to get a much smaller paycheck

bottom line, we ALL get our money in different ways - some inherit it, others do physical labor, others sit at a desk and plan, others type. whatever it is, the money that we earn keeps the roof over our heads and food on the table. and who's to judge? but woe to those people who are laid off and need unemployment! they suddenly become LAZY!!! even though they've probably worked for years and are in complete SHOCK that they're not working.

I was also thinking - there is this sentiment in our culture that the best acts are performed from the pure will alone. That means, the most valid dieter would be the person that was surrounded by yummy food, yet always chose the low-cal food.

Anytime there is a 'means', or a helper, that comes between the pure will and the act itself, the act is considered to be less valuable. For example, I could be a brilliant piano player who learned everything from my mother, who was a famous, concert pianist. She made me practice everyday.

When people talk about me behind my back, they may be inclined to say: "She is a beautiful player, BUT you did know her mother was a famous pianist - that is why she is so good"

And contrast that story with the beautiful pianist who had no famous piano-playing parent, nor had any lessons. His piano playing then becomes MORE beautiful than mine. He learned from pure will alone, whereas I learned, in the beginning, because my mother made me.

Regardless, we both put in many hours of hard work and we now both play beautifully.

I think I could spend the WHOLE day coming up with examples such as these. So, because of this ideology, many people will see the surgery, your 'means', to be less than the more 'natural' or 'pure will' attempts to lose weight.

This is a personality trait that is ingrained in our culture - for example, many people turn down the help offered by affirmation action, because they want to show everyone that they can "do it alone."

It is the rags to riches story.

i dont think any less of people who have had wls. but wls is usually much quicker, not necessarily easier. i would have done it if it had been offerred to me but all doctors told me was 'oh don't eat carbs' lmao. if that would work, i wouldnt have had any weight to lose. etc etc. so, eventually i lost weight and still eat carbs. however, loss has been very slow, for various reasons, even after i started counting and restricting calories. i've given up going to doctors about it. if they'd use the updated modern thyroid tests then they'd have something to offer me. so, i watch food and try to put in alot of exercise, and at my best i lost 0.5 pounds per week?? who chooses that when they have the wls option?? not very many people. and even now, if i could get liposuction, i'd be there right now.

I've been feeling a lot better about this. It's funny, though, when it's not one head game that you play with yourself about weight loss, it's another. I got so used to really rapid weight loss that now that I'm so close to goal and losing at a more measured, normal pace, I keep thinking "Man, I'm not losing at all." But the reality of it is that I am losing 1-1.5 pounds a week, which is completely realistic and healthy. It's actually good that I've been in challenges here and at work so that I'm marking off a weight and I can see the trend as opposed to just being all bent that I'm "not losing" when I totally am.

ah. reality. sometimes it REALLY comes around and bites us, doesn't it? and sometimes - like with this issue, Rachael, that's a GOOD thing.