i agree, the thing that squibbed me out about WW was they encouraged all those foods that were "diet" but had too many un-pronounceable words in them, and as you all said, sometimes the caloric result isn't even worth it. Or, if they take one thing out (sugar) they add another (fat).

i personally have decided i'd also rather have a bit of sugar or honey than the artificial crud. i eat a vegan diet and try to do as many whole and natural foods as possible which is why i could eat margarine but so far haven't bothered. There is a long list of ingredients in the veggie burger type things but... most of it i know what it is.... it's not perfect. But i agree with the concept: whole and natural foods are better.

i also will say this type of eating, for me, has shut off the cravings i have had for sweets and junk i do hope that keeps up! So you are not spoiled girl. uh-uh!

-fm
edited to add, what i do also is limit "Fake meat" to one time per day (if at all). Also i heart soy milk. processed or not. i love it, and i don't do dairy anymore, so it's all soy for me.

All right (though don't most kinds have some sort of sweetener added? a genuine question, I don't really like the taste of soy milk myself so I don't know a ton about it). Thanks, but I won't be making it at home.

I wasn't knocking soy milk here, or saying it's bad or that there is anything wrong with it. But it seems like a people use it as a substitute for cow's milk, so I didn't understand what it was doing in Eliana's post about how "real thing" foods are better than substitute foods. It seemed like a non-sequitur to me.

Reading her post again, I now see that her last paragraph wasn't really about how "real thing" foods are superior, rather about some instances where she has learned to prefer passing on the real thing enitrely. And in that context, her comments make more sense to me, assuming that soy milk is less caloric or something than regular milk (which again, I have no idea).

With very few exceptions, I eat real food, just in smaller servings. I do drink skim milk in my coffee and diet soda, because I have forever.

I will never, ever eat a slice of fat free faux cheese again. It's been over a year since I gave it up and I haven't regretted it a second. I don't eat cheese as often but I enjoy it now when I do.

Some brands do have added sweeteners, many don't, it depends on the brand/ variety chosen...

Soy milk actually was not developed in the modern day as a substitution for cow's milk but rather there is evidence that it was created in China(along with, and as a byproduct of, tofu...) in the period of A.D. 25-220 for medicinal purposes.

I suppose, in food cultures where consumption of dairy is central, that soy milk can be seen as a knockoff of the "real thing", but soy milk truly wasn't created as a substitution for anything as its development was completely separate of any presence there might have been of dairy.... so I'd be willing to argue that it's a "real thing" to be enjoyed in and of itself.

When it is used in place of cow's milk, soy milk is cholesterol free(unlike cow's milk, which can raise cholesterol, soy milk actually lowers it), soy milk has about the same amount of protein as cow's milk, less fat than cow's milk(of which in cow's milk, most of the fat is saturated), has fiber(cow's milk does not), is full of amino acids like cow's milk, and has less calories. So for many, soy milk really can be a healthier option while it's also just as much a real food as dairy.

Speaking of milks, almond milk also has a long history, albeit not as long as soy milk's. It was a very common ingredient in medieval European cooking; it was originally a substitute for milk used on fasting days (such as during Lent) when animal products weren't to be eaten. As it had the distinct advantage of not spoiling without refrigeration, it began to find its way into dishes even on ordinary days.

Both cow's milk and almond milk are different kinds of yum! to me, so I don't really think of either as a substitute for the other.

LOL! I think you are over thinking it. It's simply a personal choice on the soy milk. To me all milk is the "real" thing unless it's chocolate or some other flavor. I don't see anything wrong with skim milk they're not replacing fat with anything like sugar. I think it's like soup. If you let it sit in the refrigerator it forms that layer on fat at the top. If you remove that layer of fat, have you changed in some way? Is that more processed? In my opinion, no. I don't think it's man's way of messing with food to make milk less fat. I could be wrong! But that's how I think about it.

My thing with milk is a personal choice. I just decided a while ago that humans probably don't need milk, and certainly not that of a cow. I believe it's made for a baby cow and not for human consumption. So I drink soy. But I'm not militant about it. I buy milk for my family and I'm not opposed to cooking with milk and I love ice cream. It's really just a personal thing.

Yeah, you're right. It didn't belong as a milk vs. soy thing or as if soy is better than milk. I think I was just talking, you know?

I like your posts. I've never researched this, it was just a gut thing when I switched. You're making me feel validated.

Oh, one more post from me. Sorry!

This whole change over to "the real thing" has been a slow process for me. I'm not perfect at it at all. Some of us, most of us, have just grown up with all this crap and with some of it I didn't know there was anything different.

I picked up a bottle of syrup the other day to see if I could find one without HFCS. Each bottle I picked up listed that as the first ingredient. Then I picked up a bottle of "maple syrup" and I couldn't find the ingredients. I put it back and kept searching. Nope, I couldn't find it. So I went back to the one with no ingredients and realized all it said was "pure maple syrup". Yeah! That was the ingredient! LOL! So I took it home to my family and set that one on the table beside an old bottle. I asked my kids to read the ingredients from each. They did the same thing I did. "Where are the ingredients?"

They're at a good age for that. It amuses us all.

I wholeheartedly second this post - I feel very strongly about artificial sweeteners. I use real sugar in my oatmeal, just not as much as I used to. I buy plain yogurt and flavor it myself. I buy real cheese. I sometimes buy fat free putting and ice cream, and ALWAYS regret it when I do. It just isn't good, and I end up eating more to be satisfied, which I can rationalize because "its lower in calories."

I think it's better to eat the real thing instead of something that's been manufactured to taste like it. With the real thing, a little goes a long way. (I realize that as a chemist, I'm supposed to be pro-chemical, and I am, just not in my food.)

I think this is one of the largest reason people have become more and more obese. We have this mentality that if it's low fat we can eat more of it. Or, like you said, we eat more to satisfy the initial craving. "The next bite will be better." But it never is.

I know, I do that and then make a total doofus of myself. and I'm really sorry for picking apart your post with tweezers!

to Horo too for the patient explanation of stuff about soy milk. Very interesting!

My mum was always dieting when I was a kid, so the fridge was always stocked with watery low fat milk, along with bitter and metallic tasting diet yoghurt.

I didn't think I liked yoghurt for years because of that stuff. I used to wonder what all the people raving about yoghurt were on about. Then I tried real yoghurt and just about died. OMG! Amazing.

Actually I partially blame those horrible diet foods for making me crave full flavour hitting stuff as a teen.

The diet foods I do love are diet soft drink and cordial. The sugar versions make me feel really sick. I also prefer sugar in my coffee, but switched to stevia for the same reason.

Otherwise I prefer the originals.

I'll be the voice of dissent here. I love artificial sweeteners. I have very unsophisticated taste buds, and they don't taste weird to me at all: a little different than sugar, but not bad. I eat an amazing amount of aspartame in a day--I put it in my cottage cheese (with cocoa powder lately--yum!), I put it in my tea, I drink crystal lite like it was going out of style. They never leave me feeling "weird" the way sugar does. My life would be a sadder place without artificial sweeteners.

Now, there are "diet" foods I won't do--non-fat dairy is a big one. And there are more I avoid just because they are really expensive and may not be any lower calorie. But I like to EAT, and anything that allows me to eat less while staying in my calorie limit makes me happy.

Shmead, as the OP of this, I do have to shamefacedly admit to one serious failing in my "I wont eat the fake stuff rant". I do the aspartame thing in soda. I can't give up my coke zero. I can't say, as you do, that I prefer it over sugar, or that I particularly like the taste. But I "need" my carbonated burn in the morning. Yes, I pop a coke zero, or a diet dr. Pepper first thing in the morning. Something about that first burn of carbonation down my throat in the morning gets me going. I used to drink upwards of 4 regular sodas per day. This was something I absolutely could not find room for in my budget. LOL
But I was also not quite able to give it up completely. Now I drink 2 diet sodas per day.

Shmead, I was hoping someone would come in opposing. I know we aren't all in this camp! The wonderful thing about finding a diet that works is that there a lot of ways to do it.