The lady who holds training workshops for the humane society said she knew someone with a small dog (pomeranian? can't remember) who tried the Cesar Milan tricks including holding down a dog to gain control. Anyway, the dog out of the blue one day grabbed the ladies arm and took a big chunk of her arm and she had to get stitches.

I don't see Caesar's training as punishment training. It's based on how dogs/wolves discipline their own. "Dominance" doesn't mean punishment - it means the dog has to know who is the pack leader, and too many people try to treat their dogs like "people," instead of dogs, leaving the dog very confused.

A dog doesn't think like a person, it thinks like a dog - and trying to treat it like a person doesn't do it any favors (in fact, it's rather disrespectful, as if being a dog isn't good enough).

I've always had a "knack" with dogs and dog training, using both "pack psychology," and behavioral training techniques. I've always been fascinated by dog and wolf behavior, and read everything I could on the subject. I've always used it both in training my own dogs and in dealing with any dog I meet.

It's important that people understand dog behavior. What dominance displays and submission look like, what a dog perceives as a threat... Instead of treating them as people, we need to know how and when to act like a dog/wolf with them, to teach them what we want them to learn.

I think the biggest problem with Caesar's methods is that a person trying them who doesn't know what he's doing can get hurt. You can't tell from a show whether the people have received enough training to use the techniques properly. Also, while the show says "don't try this at home," you know that thousands of bozos will (Did the lady with the pomeranian read anything about dog psychology/behavior or did she just try something she saw on tv?).

Holding a dog down to submit, should be quite safe if you have the strength to do it, and especially if you start when the dog is a small pup. If you do it right when the dog is a pup, you shouldn't have to do it at all when the dog is an adult. You do it calmly and gently, not angrily and not staring the dog in the eyes while you do it (otherwise, you're threatening the dog, and likely to get bit). Even proper training, doesn't mean a dog will never bite. Dogs have teeth, and biting is part of "normal" dog behavior, when they feel threatened. Your risk of getting bit is a lot higher though if you don't understand dog behavior, and accidentally threaten them. Usually you can prevent this, if you know what a dog finds threatening (if you study and understand dog behavior).

there are really two rules of thought when it comes to training. A lot of people feel ceasar milan is too "aggressive" He's actually not aggressive, his methods are pack mentality methods. I think he's a great trainer...but i also like julia stillwell (the british trainer from "its me or my dog" on animal planet). Milan's methods look aggressive if they don't understand pack animal methods. i think he's a great trainer. I have seen several trainers try to be like milan and fail miserabley. and then it does nothing for the pet or owners. He does a lot of what dog's do to each other in packs.

and kaplods is correct, not everyone can do the methods milan does...manly because they don't really understand dogs, and you have to understand the difference between scared and dominanced..many don't understand this. If a dog is scared, you don't place it into a submissive position and if you've seen a few episodes of milan...he shows those instances. But the biggest thing milan teaches is that dog's are dogs...plane in simple. They aren't human and they don't "think" like humans despite what we would like to believe. Don't get me wrong, i love my dog and thing of her as my baby...however i don't treat my dog like a human. She's a dog and she knows it. All this dressing up of dogs, pushing in strollers and other things that many people like to do...actually makes the dog become alpha dog. Why do you think a dog would let you be alpha...if every day instead of a walk, you put it in a stoller and roll it along. That's definately screaming to the dog...you're in charge not me

My MIL is a prime example of thinking her dogs "think" like a person. She claims she can tell when her shelties are "telling her" they want to go to McDonald's for french fries. (She may even be right, but if they have a way to "tell her" to do anything and she does it - they are in charge, not her.)

When one of her dogs bit my husband on the ankle (they're both very aggressive to visitors to her home) she picked the dog up and said "poor baby, did David (my husband) scare you?!"

Talk about rewarding a dog for biting.

Her dogs barked so much that the neighbors were complaining and she got shock collars so she wouldn't have to get rid of the dogs because of noise complaints. It worked for a while, but the dogs know that she really wants them to bark (she doesn't know it, but the way she fusses over them when they bark, reinforces the anxiety and the behavior itself). So now the dogs bark "through" the shock - "taking one for the team." It's pitiful and difficult to watch, because the shock isn't set high, but you can tell it's irritating to the dog, barking and whining and jerking it's head from the shock, but continuing to bark because they know it's their job (because of her behavior).

If you're going to do it Caesar's way, you REALLY do have to be able to understand and read dog body language, and other doggie communication -- and that takes not only knowledge but keen observation skills. You also have to be able to respond to the dog's behavior and body language in a way they understand (picking up a dog and consoling it after it's bit someone is communicating in human, not in dog). You've got to be confident, and you can't be afraid of getting hurt, or of hurting the dog. The hesitation, even if for a second, will send a mixed message, and you could get bitten.

I once had to stop at a farm house for directions (I'd gotten lost and it was the only house for miles). A huge pack of farm dogs rushed the car barking. I opened the car window and started talking to the dogs. I opened the car door a crack so they could smell me, but I could slam the door if there was any aggressive behavior. They were definitely in meet and greet mode, not rip the stranger to threads mode, so I confidently stepped out of the car, and walked to the house, and knocked. I acted like I belonged there, and so did the dogs.

The owner looked shocked, and asked how I had gotten to the house. I said what do you mean, I just walked to the door and knocked. He said "the dogs didn't bother you?" They apparently had bitten strangers before. I'd been around farm dogs enough to know that if you run or act nervous, they will chase and often bite, but if you "introduce" yourself properly, they're usually friendly. It's just something my dad taught me when I was a kid. I didn't fully understand why it worked, until I read more about wolf and dog behavior in my teens, but I was a "pro" by the time I dealt with this particular farm pack.

I've often "shocked" people by my way with dogs that "hate everyone else," but it isn't a difficult skill.

That doesn't mean that I think I can control any dog, or am 100% safe from being bit. But, I know how to minimize the risk. If a dog is behaving as if it doesn't trust me, I'm not going to give it a reason or a chance to bite, and I'm certainly not going to to lay my hands on the dog. I'm amazed at how many people can't read their own dog's behavior. I've had people say "go ahead and pet him, he doesn't bite," when the dog's hackles are raised and he's clearly suspicious or down right afraid of me. That dog may have never bitten anyone before, but if he's clearly agitated, I'm not going to put my hands on a dog that has no reason to trust me.

Mostly it's common sense, but only if you understand how dogs communicate and what they're trying to communicate.

The fact that Ceasar looks to the wolves nature to help dogs is encouraging.

My dog trainer, Bob Minchella, studied wolves in the wild before beginning his dog training experience. His understanding of dogs is profound and very useful, and helpful. Unlike Ceasars, his methods curtail instructing the owner, while the owner handles the dogs. Sometimes if he sees a dog acting up too powerful for the owner he'll step in and take the reigns. It's amazing to see the transformation in the dog under his control! I think, like with Ceaser, showing a dog right off the bat who is alpha is why they are so successful in this task. The dog has grown comfortable with the owners, and therefore when an owner steps up a notch to become "alpha" the dog doesn't give in as easily, they say "oh yeah? fight me for that position."

Most dogs were bred to be submissive. To want a leader. The thing is that even an alpha wolf may sometimes be confident enough to be submissive (in some situations, for short periods of time) to another wolf. It's a "play" behavior though, and all the other wolves in the pack know it (or he'd be challenged for the "boss" job).

But, alpha behavior doesn't just mean acting tough when you need it. And I think that's what most people don't realize. You don't have to be "mean" to show you're the boss. When a dog gets on top of another dog (or jumps on a human) to "play" they're "playing" at dominance. They're saying, "I like you, but I'm bigger and stronger than you (or trying to find out if I am).

The biggest part of dominance (I think in human as well as wolf "packs") is confidence. If you seem to know what you're doing, people/dogs will follow you.

You know, the problem I have with Ceaser Millan is that the show only shows the dog behaving for him, and the owners while he's there... does it ever do follow ups for after Millan leaves? Like a week or month later? How are those "success" stories turning out? Millan establishes "alpha", but that doesn't mean the owner does once he's gone!

He does do follow-ups, especially with "red zone" dogs. He has also been known to take the worst cases of aggression to his rehab center for months to work for them in a pack setting. Also, at the end of every episode he gives updates on all the dogs with videos that the owners submit. Sometimes the dogs are turned around and sometimes it takes a lot longer

I think that main reason they don't show alot of in-depth follow-up is that the relapse rate is probably very similar to the weight loss relapse rate. Most people return to their old habits, you can teach a new way of behaving, but you can't teach sticking to it. Those that do stick with it will see success, and those that don't won't.

No different than the "nanny" shows either, I bet a month after the film crew is gone, many of the families are back to their old habits.