WELL!!!!!! just when ya thought this couldn't get more interesting, look at this article i found on webmd.... the IRS has officially ruled that obesity is a disease!!! and therefore tax deductible!!!

naafa has been lobbying for this change for a long time.

the long-term consequences of this will be interesting to follow, and i wonder what the role of the weight loss surgery has been. it's not covered by all insurance companies, and the approval process can be arduous.

and what about people's attitudes?? can there be a change??? or will some folks still view obesity as a lack of will power and self respect?? they forget that no one starts out planning to be huge. i certainly didn't.


Fighting Obesity Is Tax-Deductible

IRS Says You Can Deduct Prescribed Weight-Loss Plans
By Jennifer Warner




April 3, 2002 -- The battle of the bulge is about to get a little easier on your pocketbook. The Internal Revenue Service issued a ruling Tuesday that officially recognizes obesity as a disease -- making physician-prescribed plans to treat it tax-deductible.


Experts say the ruling may set a precedent for insurance companies and other government-sponsored programs like Medicare to offer coverage for obesity programs.


But the new deduction will likely only apply to a small percentage of people who are trying to lose weight. The ruling does not apply to people who want to shed pounds in order to improve their general health and appearance.

Fees associated with joining weight-loss programs, such as Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, and others, and attending meetings are now deductible expenses for those who have been referred to the programs by a doctor to treat obesity. But the cost of diet foods is not deductible.

According to the IRS, "Although diet foods may also be part of a weight-loss program, these are substitutes for the food the taxpayers normally consume and satisfy their nutritional requirements. As such, they are not deductible medical expenses, even for taxpayers whose disease qualifies them to deduct weight-loss program costs."

In addition, taxpayers may deduct qualifying medical expenses, including weight-loss plans, only to the extent the total of such expenses exceeds 7.5% of their adjusted gross income.


The IRS says this ruling not only applies to the 2001 tax returns being filed this year and future returns, but also to any previous years for which the taxpayer can file an amended return (generally three years after the due date).


The judgment updates a previous IRS policy that allowed deductions for physician-ordered weight loss plans prescribed to combat diseases such as heart disease and high blood pressure.


© 2002 WebMD Inc. All rights reserved.

Great thread! It's late and this is too complicated to say much about now- but a few thoughts:

-Jiff, we certainly remember when the hospital staff thought food was being smuggled in! Peach is a fierce and wonderful friend, but lets not get her all riled up again!

My quick thought about the original post is what others have already commented on: the contrast between wanting social acceptance and unconditional love for ourselves as a person vs. acceptance of obesity(especially extreme overweight) as a sign of depression or "giving up." No one wants to see a group condoning helplessness or acceptance of pain as an end point. But we believe we all have the right to be treated respectfully and lovingly in the world.

I tend to find myself a little "anti" psychological about the issue of weight loss and body image. I have a very BIOLOGICAL perspective- that while food certainly WORKS as treatment for my moods or fears or whatever, it is the biology that is the reason for this- and sometimes I see the women on these boards beating themselves up over things, and anaylzing these ups and downs. I want to say, relax, you're OK. It's OK to learn how to take care of yourself. But be careful not to blame the victim! You can only see so much of the problem, and we can't always understand the role of our metabolic/ chemical/ hormonal variability. I'ts not good to blame our lack of determination or get mad at ourselves. I know I'm over simplifying, but it's late and I'm tired, and I'm not really adding much new here- but I want people to take it easy on themselves!

So be kind to yourself, eat well, breathe deeply, and hug a chubby person tomorrow!

Thanks to everyone that posted with so much thought and intelligence, I am helped by you all each day!

dottie

just a quick in and out -- for you McMom -- in case you thought I was upset -- I wasn't at all -- I appreciate your comments and bringing this discussion up... I didn't think you were being unkind at all --

as a matter of fact, more and more every day I appreciate the thoughtful dialogue of these threads -- there's always something to think about -- and even more than that -- by writing and putting it on "paper" -- I'm able to sift what I think I believe and have the great advantage of hearing what other intelligent, thinking women have to say on the subject...what a gift!

c

There is definately so much here to digest. Wonderful insight and shared thoughts. I guess I would first like to say that I do not see anything offensive in anyones posts. One thing we all know is that we are respectfully and honest in our posts. So Stacey, please stop worrying. This is a wonderful topic.

Dottie~ I agree...I remember the thread over the sneaking food issue....let's not get any of us rowled up over that, but especailly not our Peach!

There is so much here that I can relate too. The being skinny to chubby stage. The extreme measures, the self loathing, the sneak eating, the guilt eating. Though I showered daily for the better part of two years found me in huge tee shirts, baggy jeans and no makeup due to the affect on my self esteem. DH got tired of my going no where I didn't have to go with him. Eating only salads in restaurants or family functions because I feel all eyes are on me. DH's exwife just said on Easter that in all the years we've been getting together she's not known me to eat at our get togethers! Well, she reinforced (in my mind) that she had been watching! And then we have the guilt that my husband wants me thin again. He married a thin woman seven years ago and has had a chubby one for the last 4. Do we see more guilt feelings here?

I love the inner me. I know that I am a good person worthy of love and respect. Not ridicule or rude comments.

I do believe that the majority of our society do not understand that weight loss or weight issues is not only about the types or quantity of food people like us eat. But that should not make us targets of prejudice.

I also believe that there is a difference in accepting the person we are and giving up on ourselves. For myself I struggle daily and try to remind myself of the true reasons I want and need to eat healthy and hopefully shed the excess weight. I understand and accept that I will never be a Bo Derek. I need to find the best way to be a healthy well balanced ME. Along with that comes the emotional issues connected to the additional weight. Low self esteem, energy, guilt, stress, depression and yes, acceptance. But not from others. Of myself.

The amount of weight we would benefit from shedding is now always the issue, in my opinion. Some of us may have 100 or more pounds or more to lose, some 20-30 or 50. But our struggles both physical and emotional are the same.

You all have given me much to think about.

As usual....you guys are just toooooo good!

Janice

does anyone remember those 'click' moments the women's movement focused on? they're those times when a person realizes in their hearts just what the struggle is all about.

my real 'click' on this issue of how the general public views heavy people actually came about 20 years ago, when i was thin. the man i was dating commented on how awful some heavy person was. and followed with all the slanderous stuff about her being ugly, and smelly and out of control, and stupid and so on. i looked at him and said that i had just lost 70 pounds and he just shook his head and said 'no no no'. he couldn't, wouldn't believe it.

and then i realized that the world looked the same to me regardless of my weight. but the world didn't ever see ME the same way. the world would only see my size, whatever it was, and judge me on that first and foremost.

Well I think this is a hot topic. I have been reading for a few days and really have had to dig deep inside myself to see how I feel about this. In an Ideal world we are all equal. but the truth is we all get our first impression of people we meet and see by their apearance. I was once at the mall with my older son who was about 4 at the time and he asked why the man at the table next to us was so big. The man heard him speak and I could tell was waiting for my answer. I told my son that eveyone is different and that is what makes us special as a person and makes the world a better place. The world would be boaring if we were all the same. I continued to tell him how I was different fom him and he was different from dad and we were different from this man. The man said I had done a great job and he thought it was a very kind answer.

The boys also have an aunt who is morbidly obease. it has not occured to them that the shouldn't love her because she is fat. She has some larger issues that go along with it besides poor health and poor hygene, but none the less she is part of our family and we love her for who she is.

My feelings about fat acceptance have all come from my mother who would tell me daily as she brushed my hair, "you never want to get as fat as so and so". This has been a hard cycle to break for me as I have known this SIL my whole lfe ( we grew up in the same neighborhood and i married her brother) and I like her, but all the while I could hear my mothers thoughts in my head telling me that this girl is fat and I never want to be like her. This was very hard for me when I was in my early 20's and was on cortizone and gained A LOT of weight. to my mother I had become everything she had warned me not to be. I had all of those same feelings while I was pregnant and think maybe that was one of the big reasons I did not enjoy it.

I hope for my kids that they will never know that because someone is fat they can't be loved, appriciated or have wonderful things to add to their lives. I hope to instill to my children that different is good and that weight is not important.

On the reverse side I see it all the time and I want to cry for these people. I want to tell all the people that feel nothing good for themselves that they are good and worthy and it is ignorance that leads poeople to not accept people that are not like them.

My feelings for myself are all together different. I have good self esteam now, but it has really come since the birth of my kids. I have been a size 18 and hated myself every second of the day and also been a size 4 and had the same feelings. I find I no longer weigh myself as it could make or break a day for me and I did not like that this stupid thing in my house could have that much power over my feelings.

Since I have joined this board and the low car friends I have relized that I have no idea what you look like. but I think of you all as friends and to tell you the truth I don't care if you are 400lbs or 120lbs. I think of you all as friends that can put a smile on my face throughout the day and I wonder how you are doing and if you are happy. i feel sad for you when your kids are sick or if you had a bad day, and I hope you feel the same way about me.

I cherrish the friends I have made here and I look forward to the day we can all meet, but in truth I have based my opinion of you by your words and thoughts, not your picture. You are all special peopel and just by being here shows that you care about yourselves enough to never give up.


Well, thats about all,
Be well,
-L

as i read through all these posts, i am torn between tears and the occasional smile. and always touched by the kindness and generosity of everyone who's posted.

but i have a question for McMom...

did you ever think you'd get this kind of response to your original post?????? it all seemed to start so simply...

WOW that is all I can say! You guys have said it all and truly from the heart!!!

I agree that yopu all are my friends nomatter how big or small you are. In one way i am glad that this is through the internet as we have no idea what the other person looks like and that is a ture sigh of unconditional love. Thanks all you guys for being here for me!! and for others too. I am among a bunch of angels!!!

I'm like L, I read for a few days and I actually wrote this whole post out yesterday. Then I deleted it because I didn't even understand where I was going with the whole thing! It touches my heart that we are all sharing the same struggle, the same feelings, and even (sometimes) the same opinions. I'm glad I've got a world full of friends who understand me when nobody I know in real life has a clue!!

I've been fat my entire life, been picked on and picked out of a crowd, laughed and pointed at, gone home and cried. I know all about prejudice and how it affects you, even when you're not in a minority group as far as your race or religious beliefs. It sux.

The kids I went to school with are now raising kids who will go to school with my daughter. Do I think the world has changed any? No, because those practices are going on in front of the kids and they are learning by example that ridicule is an acceptable form of behavior. Does it break my heart? Yes, but I can't protect my child from it, just like my parents couldn't protect me.

I, too, want to believe that I have raised my daughter to be kind and keep her opinion to herself. You don't like or dislike someone because they aren't pretty or popular. You like someone for who they are on the inside. Then, at the same time, I find myself hating skinny people!! Who am I to preach? I am practicing reverse discrimination! Why do I feel this way?

It's because for a very long time I hated me and wanted to be the perky cheerleader with 12 boyfriends, who could wear the most stylish clothes and have parties and fun. I loathed myself all through high school and on into adulthood. Then one day I looked at myself in the mirror and realized that God made me who I am, and maybe he had a purpose for making me different. Maybe I was born this way and maybe I will always stay this way, but only I have the power to change me.

The people who watched me walk through the store, just betting that my cart was full of cookies and chocolate; the people who watched me eat in restaurants and counted my trips to the all you can eat bar; the rude saleswoman in the store who told me that the size 8 wasn't going to fit any better than the 6 did (I was returning them for my sister!!!!); I could go on and on here. Those people don't have to wake up with me every day, and they don't have to face St. Peter on that judgment day. I do. And no matter what they think of me, I have to be the best person I can be with what God gave me.

Then I began to care about me, how I looked, what I wore, how I talked. Then, magically, I began to really work at losing weight. I realized that I loved myself and that if I wanted anything better for myself, I was going to have to work like **** to get it. It was only after I became comfortable with my weight and what others thought of me that I was able to let go of my resentments and try to lose this fat suit.

Now I don't envy those skinny girls, I find myself hating them. I don't want to be them, because they are dumb!! If I weighed 115 I would not moan and groan about my "gut" or my enormous butt. I would rejoice because I finally attained what I have been working for such a long time! I find myself wanting to hit some of my friends and tell them if they lived one day in my body they would never complain about the way they look again. Then, I feel pity because maybe in their own minds they don't see what they really look like. Maybe they have a distorted body image like I do.

We are all here to live together and hopefully we can get along. Hopefully one day there will be the perfect world where everyone is accepted and loved because they are who they are, and for no other reason. Someone wake me up here, okay? Until that day comes, I will continue to do my best and hope that I can change one small part of the world. The part I live in and the lives I affect. That is all we can hope for.

I'm getting down off my high horse now. Next??

Oh man, I've been chewing (so to speak) on this one for days now. I've started to reply, then erased it about four times. This is one of the most moving, helpful, heartbreaking threads I've ever read.

Sometimes I think I should go join the fat acceptance organization and rally around the cause, because I just don't have any fight left and I'm so tired of continually trying to become a person I've only imagined. Then, in the next breath, I get mad at myself and call myself names like quitter and a coward and know I'll never stop trying.

As I reread everyone's thoughts tonight, a couple of things really struck me. Sooner's thoughts that fat people are viewed as "lazy, indulgent and undisciplined" really struck a chord with me. I really, really do care what people think about me, even though I know I shouldn't. I think most people ultimately care what others think too. The associated guilt and shame of being fat have probably kept me from living up to my potential and putting myself out there in the world, for all to judge. I think this is where willingness to accept being fat would be an asset. I know for me, right now, my weight has become like a chain tied around me that's keeping me from doing some very simple and imporant things. For instance, I'm having some health problems right now and stupidly refusing to go see a doctor because I'm more terrified of the doctor's inevitable "you're too fat" statement than the health problems. If I were more confident, loving and accepting of myself of how I am right now, I wouldn't let their attitude bother me. It would be healthier for me to accept the fat because it's less destructive than denying myself the care I deserve. Does that make any sense?

A big "click" moment for me tonight was reading L's post about not being able to enjoy pregnancy because of her mom's attitude. I just realized that my pregnancies were the only times in my life where I was not self-conscious at all about my weight. For the first time, it was not an issue because my body was doing what it needed to make healthy babies. I remember the relief at finally being able to be proud of my huge stomach because it was that way for a reason. It's the only time I've ever felt it was socially acceptable to be big and it was fun!

I truly understand people wanting to be accepted no matter what size they are. I know that's what I want, especially from myself.

You ladies are a brilliant group and I'm glad to be a part of it.
Chickadee

the voice of experience is speaking here...

GO TO THE DOCTOR

and if he/she refuses to treat you because of your weight..

FIND ANOTHER DOCTOR

if you have to, go to a university obesity center to get the care you need. ask a surgeon who does the weight loss surgery to refer you to an internist who understands the problems of obesity.

but please, don't neglect your health, or you could be headed for a long unfortunate incarceration plus a lot of rehab.

turn into a first class b.... if you have to. you deserve to have appropriate, sensitive care, and if you don't get it, report the doc to the insurance company. they don't take kindly to hearing that their docs are rude to heavy people.

About ten years ago, I was still able to walk through the large grocery stores using a cane. Now I have my own elelctric cart. Anyway, there was a woman with two boys nearby and one of them said "Look, Mom, at the fat woman with a stick!" The poor woman looked like she was going to crawl into the Tide display. She was trying to shush her boy and tell me how sorry she was. I told her that, if that was the worst thing he ever said, she was doing all right.

So...what I'm saying is there are nice, compassionate people in the world and that woman was teaching her children to be one of them

Onions and acorns. That is what I think of. I know I think weird, I know I must annoy and torment and I am really sorry.

Onions, layers, you peel and peel, layer after layer and some of them stink and bring tears to your eyes. But, then you can say, "look what I have done, how far I have gotten....then you can throw the whole thing in the trash, put the lid on it, and let the truck come around to pick it up. Out it goes, not to be forgotten but to be in its proper place.

Acorns, you find one, pick out the right spot, clear out the old leaves and twigs, prepare the soil, plant, and watch the roots take hold and the strong oak is born and nurtured. And it grows. Perhaps not the most beautiful or graceful tree but strong and sturdy to withstand the wind, the rain, the sleet and snow....and hopefully the lightening.

Onions and Acorns....who'd a thunk it!?

peach