I just wanted to say that just because you haven’t found the need to delve into the emotional reasons why you eat doesn’t mean that other people don’t and that it is a bunch of . I envy people who can “just do it” but that hasn’t been the case for me. There were a lot of painful things lurking that I have needed to deal with. I have major scars from my childhood coupled with a lack of coping skills other than using food. I am still learning and have a long way to go, but I know I wouldn’t have gotten as far as I already have without exploring my feelings and why I eat. This doesn’t mean that I blame anyone for where I am – it is my job to heal those things for myself, but personally I find that looking at the emotional side is an intrinsic part of this journey for me.

It's an interesting issue. I found that I didn't have to do a lot of work figuring out why I ate and was fat before I started my weight loss journey, but along the way I certainly have learned a lot -- sometimes realizations I wasn't even searching for, at least not consciously. It has been helpful to have these realizations, but for me personally, it seems I didn't need them in order to begin.

One thing that fascinates me is how so many of us became fat but often for different reasons and leaving us with different issues. I see this in me and my husband all the time -- how we react so differently to different situations, or have different triggers and different ways to success. And yet, there are also many commonalities and many similar paths to success...

I know that's vague, but I hope it makes some sense...

Helplessness and hopelessness erode our sense of control and power over our own lives. It becomes a trap. I think understanding how and under which circumstances, and why we get caught in the trap certainly makes sense, and it's a good thing, as long as we don't use it as an excuse to stay in the trap.

Some people seem to need to be angry at themselves in order to take control of their lives, I guess. I don't understand it, because it's never worked for me. I'm a forgiving person, naturally. I can't hold a grudge against anyone, including myself. I've also, given my career choices, seen the worst of the worst in terms of human behavior. Seing what I have seen, considering myself "bad" for having difficulty with food, seems ridiculous. That doesn't mean that I think I'm not in control of my choices, and that if I want to make changes I have to work at it, but telling myself I'm babying myself if it is harder or takes longer than I expected. Jeez, it only fat!

I'm not diminishing the consequences of my actions. I've made some pretty poor choices, and messed up my health and ability to enjoy life, because I haven't worked hard enough or been persistent enough to control my weight. I've taken almost everything I can from myself, I'm not going to take any more away by punishing myself with a "boot camp" approach to weight loss. It didn't work when I was 75 - 85 lbs overweight (at 12), and it isn't going to work at 215 lbs overweight now.

Maybe it is that so many of us have gained weight in different amounts, at different ages, for different reasons. Maybe someone who has experienced "thin," or heck even "normal," (I'd even settle for obesity over morbid obesity at this point), needs to take a different approach than someone who has no memory of being at a weight that could be considered ok. I was very skinny until about 4 (though have no memory of this) and was fat to obese by kindergarten and morbidly obese soon after. It took amphetemines (yes, I was given amphetemines at 13 years old) for me to lose 70 lbs. It took more than 4 years to lose those 70 lbs, even so.

I don't "need" anyone's sympathy, but after years, and years, and years, and years (did I mention this was a very long time) of feeling "bad" and only getting fatter for it, I make no apologies for my weight anymore to anyone - even myself. Freeing myself from blame has been a miracle, but a slow one. But, a slow upward spiral towards a healthy weight and lifestyle, is better than a downward spiral of any speed.

I think I'm completely lost now. What exactly IS this thread about again?

I know why I eat. I can remember back to the early points in my life when I started using food to soothe and comfort myself. Although I know the difficulties that led to my abusing food, I don't blame anyone, not even myself, for the continuing reliance on food to deal with my difficult feelings. I do, however, take full responsibility for my weight. There's a difference, in my mind, between blaming/berating and taking responsibility. There is no one forcing me to overeat, yet I am not a horrible person in need of punishment because I do.

Just because I know and understand how my overeating habit formed and continues is not enough....but for me, it was a start.

This time, my weight loss journey is about being a friend to myself. I have spent years being a harsh drill instructor that would accept nothing less than perfection. It didn't work before, and it won't work now. Being a loving friend who chooses food that will nourish and sustain me is a much better bet. This friend doesn't berate me for the occasional slip-up, because perfection is impossible. Progress is. This friend understands that food has been used as a comfort and crutch, and it is now time to find other means of comfort that will truly sustain and enhance my life.

I don't think it's necessary for everyone to start out doing the emotional work that will enable them to break free from overeating, but I suspect that the successful, long-term weight loss maintainers have learned how to be an understanding, patient, and mature friend to themselves....whether that was their intention in the beginning or not. It can take a lot of different forms. It doesn't necessarily have to be overt and separate from their weight loss work, but it can be playing in the background as they learn to handle the stuff that life throws them without abusing food.

And...just to be clear...there's a difference between a friend and an enabler.

Well, I've decided this thread isn't for me after all. It looked promising but... it seems as if everybody is just ignoring what I'm saying or disagreeing with me but not directly so I don't even know if someone is arguing with me.

It feels like since I've decided to be super strict with myself, people think I'm going to talk myself down and be unappreciative of myself. That's not true. In the end, you should do what works best for you. What worked for one person will not necessarily work for another. I have no underlying stressful factors that made me fat and so, I feel I need to be more strict with myself, less lenient in order to succeed. It doesn't mean I'm going to love myself any less. I've lost respect for myself for my lack of control when it comes to food. I feel disgusted with myself not because I eat but because I don't stop when I should and eat more than would be considered healthy. Being strict with myself and critical makes me feel more self confident about myself.

Anyway, I thought this particular thread wasn't a discussion topic. I figured it was made for people who knew they needed tough love. If I knew it were a discussion topic, I wouldn't have joined in. I'm not so good with discussions, as you guys can see.

Maybe when the thread becomes an actual support group for people who do need a gentle kick in the butt and not hugs, I'll join in. Good luck to all you ladies who posted here

If I've taken part in hijacking this thread in any way y'all let me know and I'll get out of here. I came into the thread for being direct and honest about my weight loss (y'know = "no pity") - what works and what doesn't, without excuses, hopelssness or self-delusion (I eat only 200 calories a day, exercise 3 hours a day, and I still can't lose weight)"

That's what I mean my no pity, but it seemed to me that some posts were leading into the direction that no pity had to mean no compassion and draconian methods of weight loss (bread and water - woops bread is too high in carb, so I guess it's just water then, whips, chains, talking meand and calling nasty names, maybe a dungeon and black leather too (oops this is taking a direction some people might LIKE that, that's not good!).

If most of us here consider the definition of no pity to be more like the latter (without any of "those" feelings about it of course that might make it fun), I'll get out now, but if there's room for different definitions of a pity-free zone, hey I'm in.

Also, if we don't want any discussion, then let's decide what we DO want, and set some ground rules. I'm game!

Nobody here is talking about "only bread and water" and whips and chains stuff. Why do you get that idea?

Basically what I'm saying here is, "Eat one cookie not planned, that's okay. Eat any more than that, shame on me and don't nobody give me any hugs for that." Not literally of course, but you get the idea.

And relax, wouldja? Lol.

Honestly though, I think I'm better off keeping my diet private. I think that's best for me.

You ladies carry on. Discussions are more fun when I'm not a part of it. I take them too personally. And my opinions are usually taken the wrong way. Which kind of may be my own fault since I'm not very good at expressing them.

No hard feelings kaplods?

No hard feelings at all, I thought it was obvious that I was kidding about the bread and water and whips and chains. That's what I get for my weird sense of humor. I still tend to forget to add LOL to such things, and forget that it could be taken in a *****y voice with a scowl (and maybe a growl for good measure Grrrrr LOL!) Ok I'm getting punchy here.

My point was only that if I had misunderstood the purpose of the thread I was happy to stick to it, or bow out if the purpose didn't jive with my own philosopy. Because there are so many viewpoints, if we want a focused group with a clear and unified purpose, that's great, but we should probably decide what that is, so we can stay on track.

Rule number one of always joking in a sarcastic manner on the internet--always add an "lol" at the end of the sentence. lol. (lol!)

I'm learning, I'm learning, LOL! I feel weird using the emoticons and net abbreviations, like I'm trying to speak a language I don't understand.

It seems to me that threads go where the majority of participants need them to go. Having said that, here's my two cents (worth exactly what you paid for it ):

1. It is not OK for me to encoourage the mindset "one cookie is OK, more are not" because for me, there is no such thing as one cookie. The first cookie changes my thought process, somehow. The first cookie calls the next one, which calls the rest. I don't know why that's so. It just is. Maybe someday that will change. But for today, no cookie.

2. It is not OK for me to say "I can have the cookie after I lose all the weight. It might not be OK then, either. In the past, "OK, now I can have that" was a disastrous misconception that started me down the slippery slope to gaining it all back. This time, when I reach goal, I will experiment extremely cautiously, with one variable at a time.

3. This has been said before, using other words, but it isn't productive for me to analyze myself while I'm still eating, in order to make stopping less painful. Or even possible. It doesn't work for me because my ability to think clearly when my eating is out of control is much impaired. I just have to suck it up and quit self medicating for any reason. Then, my feelings and motivations will become crystal clear without me doing anything analytical at all. It seems to be an automatic by-product when I stop deliberately anaesthetizing myself. Yeah, it hurts. Too bad. Don't eat, talk in these threads about what's really going on, like Jen did, and with the wisdom and insight of the other people here, you'll see how to make it better in a positive, long term way, not an addicted, momentary way.

4. I eat because I'm an addict. Simple as that. I use food. I use it for everything. Any hurt, any confusion, any fear, any unwelcome feeling. My job is to not do that, and trust that causes and conditions will be revealed as I go along. So far, so good.

5. My eye is completely unreliable. I seem to need to weigh and measure, or I will be inaccurate in my calcuations. And for success, I need to know what the numbers really are. This will be especially critical when I reach goal, and have to know what I can safely have and what I can't without adverse effects.

6. If I try saying "oh, this butter is probably the same as that mayo, so I'll just plug those numbers in since I know them," I get further and further away from accuracy. It's best that I look up any value I haven't memorized, otherwise if I stop losing or worse, start gaining, I will not be able to pinpoint where I went off into the weeds and got lost.

7. Exercise. Hate it. It's hard. It's work. I get all sweaty. Ick. I'm allergic to work. Like the Nike ads say, Just Do It. It doesn't matter how I feel about it. I have to go to the gym anyway, if I want this to work. Study after study finds regular exercise and weight-loss maintenance to be firmly, inextricably linked. Denial won't change it.

I have paid dearly for each of these bits of knowledge. I found out what they cost me by pretending they weren't important. Oops! But that's how I learn and there's nothing wrong with that, just as a baby learns to walk by falling on her butt when she turns her body one way and sticks her foot out in some other direction. She learns how not to do it, and doing it right is just a process of elimination.

YMMV.

I don't like conflict either and should have known better than to actually be frank and honest. I'm sorry to have hurt feelings. I'm also sorry for the flippant tone of my post.

I would like, if I may, to harken back to Heather's post .... I found that I didn't have to do a lot of work figuring out why I ate and was fat before I started my weight loss journey, but along the way I certainly have learned a lot -- sometimes realizations I wasn't even searching for, at least not consciously. It has been helpful to have these realizations, but for me personally, it seems I didn't need them in order to begin .... she always says things better than I do.

Susan -- You are a great support to so many people here!! Please don't apologize for being frank! (I have had to learn to use smilies too!) And thanks for the compliment -- I always think other people say things so much more clearly than I do!

And you know what? I think to post is to eventually write something that someone is going to disagree with or take the wrong way. It's the nature of the beast. I know I've done it. Many times. Luckily, most of the time we can all work it out. Maybe we just agree to disagree, but maybe we're lucky and come to further and deeper understanding of each other. Ironically, perhaps, I think the latter is more likely to happen when we do try to be honest with each other, but to temper that honesty with empathy and understanding.

This is still a great thread, though Jen will have to tell us if it's the one she wanted when she started it!

I know we've had some disagreements in this thread, but has anyone had hurt feelings? If so, maybe I missed it (or it's another one of those time where a tone/emotion in a post have come across differently to different readers?)

Isn't honesty going to mean, we risk disagreeing with each other, and that's ok, right? Wasn't that some of the point of this thread, to risk not being PC once in a while, even if we disagree what works best for each of us?

That's one of the things I was kind of looking for in this thread, a place that being blunt, and disagreeing with one another was going to be ok, a true soundingboard for different ideas and opinions, without anyone saying you're wrong (well maybe "I think you're wrong," or "that wouldn't work for me").