Nobody here is offended and nobody wants to see either of you go. This IS a really great thread but IE can be really tricky, when one starts to get very comfortable with IE they try to distance themselves from talking about food/IE/dieting etc. This has happened to many of us and the thread being quiet is just a sign that most people are in their groove. IMO the whole forum has taken a very sharp downturn in terms of attendance anyway, it is pittering out. But there are many of us here still visiting the forum and drawing inspiration from this thread, myself included. I've gone quiet because I've had my own struggles and I fail to see how I can help or inspire anyone when I'm feeling down. But I visit daily and soldier on in my journey to NOT diet and NOT fall down the rabbit hole of weight control. We are all here to have discussions just like this, to share our own experiences with intuitive eating. Let's not get upset and storm away a valuable discussion.

I believe this thread is welcoming to anyone, not just IEers. This is indeed a support thread and as Suzanne3FC has mentioned several times, we have to try not to derail a support thread by arguing about the validity of the program or putting down the program. I don't think that's what's happening here, although I do have to correct you and say that IE is about eating when you're hungry AND it is about eating what you want. It is stated clearly and frequently in the IE book that we must not only honor our hunger but also honor what our body wants us to eat. Because very often when we try to trick our body and "eat this not that" our body is not truly satisfied, which inevitably comes back later to taunt us. For example, I might be craving a cookie. In an effort to "be good" I opt instead for some almonds, but since that's not what I was craving at all my body is still unsettled. So I try to appease it by having some yogurt. But that's still not what my body originally asked for and it's still nagging me. So I eat a sandwich, thinking that I will surely now be full enough to not think about that cookie. But I'm still not really satisfied! Later in the day I can't control myself anymore and eat a whole sleeve of cookies. This could have been avoided if I had just allowed myself to have that cookie that I wanted earlier in the day, I ended up eating way more stuff than my body really needed.

Palestrina I agree with you totally. I would hate to see this thread die off because I think we can be encouraging to each other. IMO I'm not sure we should avoid sharing our frustrations at times. I think that is what may have derailed me in the past. Example... When I'm not following IE and I'm being pulled back into a diet, I tend to stay away. I do have to not eat a lot of some foods because of the diabetes, but I am also learning how to allow some of them in my way of eating.

I agree about eating what your body is really wanting/craving. I've actually gone to the store and bought what I was craving. You used cookies as an example, I can get by with eating only a few cookies if I eat them when I "really" am hungry for them, but if I sub something else, I'm doomed. I'll get the cookies and may eat half or all the package in one sitting. So I've learned not to deny myself what I am really hungry for.

I don't post here much and I'm not sure I will. I know I wont if what I post causes someone else to leave. I am blessed because I get good support from some the diabetes thread and other internet sites. So it is no problem for me whatsoever.

You are inspirational on here and I will continue to lurk even if I don't post.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

I don't think that's what I said. I agree that it is about eating what you want. I said "it is not about eating when you want, but about eating when you are hungry." You might want to eat without actually being hungry, and that's probably my main problem. I do have an issue with saying "eat what you want." I'm agree with you if you want a cookie, eat the cookie. But some people might say they want to eat a package of cookies, or a gallon of ice cream. This is how I used to be, and how I reached 200 lbs. I don't believe that IE is meant to be that way.

I hope owlsteazombies continues to read and post here because I think the discussions here could be helpful to her, and they are always meant to be discussions, not arguments.

I think that my issue lies in I need support in other ways other than weight loss and I'm rubbing people the wrong way.

I'm not overweight. I have the opposite problem. I tend to take the rules of IE and bend them to feed an ED. It's been pointed out that I seem to not understand the rules of IE. I do.

With that being said, the current environment of this thread isn't welcoming to the other side of the spectrum of weight: the recovery from an ED. In fact, it's combative.

I respect and understand everyone's journey's here. I've been there. I wish you all the best of luck.

Oops sorry, I read that wrong, my bad

Technically yes, it is about eating when you're hungry, not about eating when you want to. However, we all find ourselves sometimes eating just cause we want to regardless of hunger. I mean who really is "hungry" enough to eat pumpkin pie after Thanksgiving dinner? But we do it. The principles of IE stress that we treat ourselves with compassion and kindness when we do eat for reasons other than true hunger because let's face it - it happens to us all. The key is to not let these instances get you down, which in turn can dial down the feelings of guilt and self loathing that can drive a girl to binge.

There are also times that I have to eat when I'm not hungry like in the morning before I go to work. I know that if I don't eat that I'll have to work for several hours before I get a chance to eat something and by that time I'll be so hungry that I'll be poised to overeat out of sheer starvation lol. So I eat preemptively - technically I'm eating when I'm not hungry but I'm doing so with the purpose of not setting myself up for an overeating episode later.

I never got that impression here. I'm recovering from an ED and I never felt that way. How so?

Maybe it's not? Maybe it's because it's Thanksgiving and I have a hard time still around food and people. Like I said, I tend to project. I'm working on it.

How was everyone's holiday? It's been a weird one over here. We spent the holiday with some of my husband's coworkers since we're 3000 miles away from our family. I didn't want to touch the food. I didn't want to have any wine. I just wanted to go home and take a walk. I was hungry though the entire thing.

Does anyone else have this issue? Not wanting to eat around people you don't know well? I thought I was doing so well. And then I took a few huge steps backwards and I'm back to square one and an emotional mess.

Holiday was ok for me. Spent it with my inlaws and that's never really fun is it? I have the opposite problem owlzombies, when I am around other people it is easy for me to eat intuitively. There was a time that I used to feel fear and shame about being a fat person eating in front of others but those days are long gone. I am not an inferior person, being fat does not mean that I don't deserve to eat and I really don't care if I am grossing someone else out by being a large woman who eats food. But like I said, I eat intuitively with other people. I think it is the aspect of sharing a meal, there is conversation that puts space between me and the food so I end up eating slowly and feel my fullness. My problem is being alone! As soon as I am alone I am triggered to binge. I hate the word trigger because it is so often associated with dieting but I am triggered by situations and as soon as I am alone (which is a great deal of my day) I constantly think about food. I get in my car and I instantly think about going through a drive through. Hubby leaves for work and I instantly think about "what can I eat?" And then when everyone goes to bed I stay up and often binge alone. So yea that's my problem, being around a dinner table with strangers sets me up for good intuitive eating. We all have our own struggles.

Palestrina, when I was still working I had the same issue you have. I had to eat before going to work even if I wasn't actually hungry, but once I got to work I was eating all day. I don't know if it was stress or what, but I spent a lot of money in the snack machines. I never did get hungry all day because I was always eating. I carried that bad habit with me when I left and did it at home, too. I just recently started to pay attention to when I feel hunger. I still eat breakfast, but it's when I get hungry, which might be 9 AM or 12 PM. My natural tendency is to graze. I am working on stopping that and it feels so much better to be hungry when it's time for dinner. If I want something, I can always set it aside and have it with my dinner, instead of eating it on the spot. It does require me to take control, but it is behavior modification, not a diet. A diet says "you can't eat that." The grazing I did was habit. I didn't need that food. My thoughts were "what can I eat" not " I want this food."

Since you can eat intuitively when you are with other people, that is not something you need to even worry about. It's the time when you are alone and you are "closet eating" that is the problem, and I think you agree. I know this doesn't seem intuitive, but you should stop for a minutes and think, why do I want to eat this? Am I hungry? Can I wait until I'm hungry and include it in my next meal? That is not diet mentality, because you are not eliminating the food, just postponing eating it until you are hungry. I did that when I was trying to quit smoking. I wouldn't smoke in front of people because I didn't want them to know I was weak, but when I was alone is when I wanted to chain smoke a few cigarettes. That was what I had to work on and eventually I learned to get through those times without the cigarettes. The more times you get through the situation, the easier it becomes next time.

Owlsteazombies, I have to admit that I misunderstood. You were talking about yourself bending the rules, where I thought you meant other people. I'm glad you explained that. You did lose weight, right? Did that cause you to be afraid of gaining it back? Are you not wanting to eat around other people so they won't think you're going to gain it back? If you're willing to share, can you tell us what type of ED you have? I don't want to pry but it would help us understand if we knew.

I don't even know if I know what IE is, really, because I never read a book, but just read a lot about it online. It seems like one of the best eating plans around because you don't have to give up your favorite foods, but you do have to control when and how much you eat. Nobody tells you how much to eat, you make that decision based on your satiety. If you're eating something you really like, you usually can keep it for later, when you get hungry again. But if someone tells me that IE means that you can eat a gallon of ice cream if that's what you really want, then I would have to disagree.

So if you want to share, we can be more supportive, once we know you're situation.

Oh absolutely. Grazing does work for some people, my mother is an intuitive eater and she's a grazer and it's fine! The tides are shifting now but for many years all the diets urged people to eat several small meals during the day and I was on that bandwagon. It was disasterous. It kept me thinking about food all day long, what am I going to eat now, what am I going to eat now? It fed into my desires to binge. Eating 2-3 meals and relatively no snacking has been a saving grace over the past year or so. I find myself going through several hours of not even thinking about food and that is revolutionary to my life.

Yea my secret eating has been the biggest factor in my ED. I know where it stems from, I've been to therapy and done all that work but therapy has never put an end to it. I have no problem with accepting behavior modification and putting a stop to habits. Just because there is a source of where the habits stem from does not mean that I don't have to put effort into stopping them. One can look at a habit pessimistically and say that it is hard to stop. But I try to look at it from the other side, that habits are easy to maintain! So I try to maintain my good habits and replace my bad habits with good ones. We are creatures of habit. As a matter of fact I have been working diligently on "Brain Over Binge" and my habits are changing and I am changing my brain. The theories resonate with me but incorporating them into my life pre-IE was impossible! One has to be in communication with their bodily needs if they ever hope to change the neural pathways of their brain. Changing habits and maintaining habits is the KEY to living a healthy life. I am in the habit of exercising, of brushing my teeth, of going to work, of doing laundry, of eating breakfast, everything is a habit! Setting up good habits and learning how to deal with hunger has been a real challenge for me but very worthwhile!

I always say that I am against diets, but I am never against dieters. We all have to go through things differently, we all have different needs and different strengths and being aware of our own needs is hard enough without judging others.

I am so sorry you had a bad Thanksgiving day. Yes, I have had that problem many times. In my second marriage, we were mostly with some of his family during the holidays. I did diet back then to keep from gaining weight. I always felt out of place. I not only didn't want to eat around them some times there were certain ones of them I didn't want to be around.

I had a cousin who grew up over weight. She would not eat in restaurants because she didn't want strangers watching her eat. I have especially in the past when eating in a restaurant wondered if people were wondering why I was eating what I was or maybe they thought I was eating a lot of food. Then I heard someone say on a tv program that people are so involved in themselves that they aren't even watching me.

One day I was at a restaurant and looked around. I noticed that no one was paying any attention to anyone else at all. Took me a while to over come that and there are times when that feeling comes back especially when in close quarters and then I looking around and find that most people are so self absorbed that they don't even know anyone is around them.

I don't know if that will help you or not. Have a good day.

Strange thing you mention that. I thought of this last night when DH went to take a nap the other night.

When I was working the principles of IE, I learned why I always wanted to eat when I was alone. For one thing my 2nd husband was a law enforcement officer and worked evenings so I had to eat when I was alone. But I noticed that I had enjoyed eating alone when he worked days as a mechanic and the kids were in school. So I begin to try to figure out why I did that. My sister did the same thing except she loved sweets and she hid her sweets to eat in secret.

One day it hit me. Our Daddy was gone a lot at night so we spend a lot of time with Mama. She loved chocolate and would make fudge for us when Daddy was not home. Strange thing is that I was not a sweet eater back thin so I didn't always eat with them, but I did visit with them. I think I associated the food to the happy time I spent with Mama and my sister so much that although I found that I enjoyed eating when I was alone. Maybe it was Daddy was gone and my husband was gone. Even now if I'm not careful, I will have the tendency to go to the kitchen to get something to et when my hubby leaves the room to take a nap. I don't usually eat dinner until late and it is a meal I eat alone so I have managed to work it into a meal rather than a meal, but it is strange that it still seems to feel like me being alone eating is more comfortable. We are both retired and yet I still feel this way when he leaves the room for a while.

Palestrina Your response to Carol Sue was interesting.

You mentioned your Mom eats intuitively and she grazes. One of the videos I've been watching says that when you start eating by your body signals of hunger and being satisfied that you may find it works one of two ways.

You may find that you may eat more often because you are hungry more often if it does not take as much to satisfy your hunger. Thus I assume could be grazing. On the other hand she said some people may not be hungry again for hours. Some people don't eat for 24 hrs sometimes. It all depends on how much they ate at the last meal.

I also liked your habit of brushing your teeth, etc. as I recently heard someone on tv use that as an example of how to change your habits. They used the idea that in order to change something you do in your life that you have to practice doing the new action until it becomes a habit. He said you learned to brush your teeth by practicing brushing your teeth everyday and now you brush your teeth without even thinking about it. It started with practice.

I have EDNOS. I have a combination of orthoexia, anorexia, bulimia and binge eating ED. So I have a carnival of craptastic.

I lost 189lbs. I lost that weight through a very strict low calorie (I was weighing lettuce and I logged sugar free gum and black coffee) diet and an extraordinarily strict exercise regime. It was to the point where if I ate -anything- I would exercise the calories off.

And yes, I don't like to eat around people because I'm afraid that they'll look at me and think, "Oh, she's getting big again. Such a shame." And yes, I was, and am, terrified of food and gaining weight. Terrified.

I still can't really look at an apple and see just an apple. I see 80-129 calories of fructose and carbs and fiber and 20 minutes of exercise. But it's getting better. It really is.

Before I wouldn't eat anything if I didn't know the exact weight and the exact calorie count. Now, I eat pretty much what I want when I'm hungry. But I still stop long before I should out of fear. It's a work in progress.

I still can't exercise a whole lot. I walk, I go for long hikes, I love the mountains and the beach. But that doesn't feel like exercise or punishing myself, so that's alright. But I can't just look at a treadmill or an elliptical and want to use it.

IE has given me part of my life back that I never thought I would have again. And it's baby steps. Crockpot meals, cookies or a casserole someone else made. Learning to let go of the immense control I had taken over what did or did not go into my mouth.

But, you can't take someone like me and put a hunger scale rule on them. It doesn't work. Rules equal control. Control equals a relapse. If that makes sense?

So I generally follow Isabel Foxen Duke's approach to IE. Look her up, it's an interesting approach to people from viewpoint of where I'm coming from.