Andrea & Liana thanks again for the input - I feel a little more relaxed now. So helpful to have you on the threads.

Shasta, I am just finishing up week one in maintenance, and indulged on Sunday, and of course the next few days saw me up a few lbs, but I'm back to where I was (YAY us!).

I weigh daily, and have since the start of the program (sometimes I weigh a couple of times a day). I find it helps me accept that my weight fluctuates, and that it's not always fat gain. Plus if the uptick sticks around for more than a day or two it will motivate me to take better care of what I'm eating instead of ignoring it and having it end up being actual fat gains. But if seeing the uptick from the fluctuations stress you then maybe weekly WIs are what's best for you.

Shasta: I still weigh every day and take my measurements every 2 weeks. I started seeing an upward trend so I am doing this reboot to try to get back to where I started.

OK Andrea & Liana (or anyone) one more question - I've been doing some research on "insulin spikes" - also called carb loads, carb nights, I think the way P4 incorporates is suggesting cheat/treat days. I'm curious what your experience has been.

I don't have much fondness for this concept as I haven't felt in the past like my body does well with any excess etc.
I don't feel like I generally want or need them for mental health/satisfaction type purposes (I could be wrong on that).

However, if there is actual value to the body and health and metabolism, I want to experiment with it.
I definitely have noticed that if I underfeed my body, I will gain weight. I think my body is similar to you both in that it seems quite sensitive in many areas, and I have to watch it pretty closely.

Have you found that it is helpful for you to do a heavier carb night from time time - weekly or otherwise?

Thank you!

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p.s. edit later today: since I wrote the above, I also wrote to a friend who many years ago lost about 100 lbs, and since then has become a triathlete, and finished schooling/licensing in nutrition/physical therapy/coaching. He is an awesome resource. Here is his answer to my question above, but would still like to hear your experience ...or anyone else reading this....

"So my experience with the whole cheat meal or my opinion of it is that it's more for people to eat the crazy stuff out there that mainstream society says it's ok to eat. I don't really incorporate anything like that into my diet anymore. I've found that by eating starchy carbs or low glycemic index carbs (Sweet Potatoes, Rice, Broccoli, Cauliflower, Oatmeal) that my insulin stay at lower levels.

Insulin spikes really have to do with sugar though. The more sugar you take in that is easily digestible (soda, candy, processed foods) that don't have any way to counter act (fibrous fuits/veggies, protein sources) the sugar being put directly into the blood system. For non-athletes there really isn't a reason to have a carb loading night. The reason behind those carb loading nights or cycles is to make sure your stored energy (sugars) in the muscles are completely topped off. So if you don't feel you need it, then don't bother with it.

The only time that I'll go heavier carbs is if I have a long training day coming up (60+ Bike Ride or 13+ mile run) and I know I won't have enough time through the day to get proper foods down.

If you're sensitive to sugar though I would just try to cut processed sugars out as much as possible since there is nothing of nutritional value to offset it."

I think most of the maintainers here don't feel the need to have a full-on Funday, although it is handy to keep in mind if there is a special occasion with friends on a certain day upcoming. Some have a 'cheat meal' on the weekly day, some just incorporate little extras into their snacks every few days.
I think the longer we eat healthier in maintenance the less we feel that need to go crazy with off plan foods and utilize a full-on Funday.
The trick is making sure it doesn't get carrying over into a longer period of time, because then we are just back to eating how we were before, (GASP!! ) and we know where that gets us.
The nice thing about its availability is that we can relax if we have something planned where we are having a few drinks, or eating bad combinations of foods, or just a whole lot more calories than our bodies need. We just know that it is for that day (or two) only and then we will be back to our new usual healthy way of eating. It seems to work best if it is planned out rather than a random thing, though (at least in my opinion). If we start suddenly deciding that we need off plan meals just because the opportunity presents itself, we can become easily led into trouble due to outside pressures swaying us.
A heavier carb night doesn't necessarily have to be a processed foods 'unhealthy' one. Perhaps it's having a gorgeous fresh fruit salad for supper when all your favorites are in season, for instance. I agree whole heartedly with your friend, Grateful. He has the right way of looking at food as fuel.

I notice that if I am not weighing myself 2 or 3 times a week... I can easily get carried away (this has happened lately) and ignore the scale staring at me in the bathroom until I get a shock when I hop on weeks later. When I'm seriously working to get it off, I weigh every day, but don't go crazy about the fluctuations, just note them as something to watch. I haven't been measuring as I have some very unforgiving non-stretch jeans that only work when I am where I should be. (Right now almost half my jeans don't fit comfortably, and a couple pairs I cannot even pull up if I am 3 lbs over my happy weight.)

Liana

Hello friends,

Great conversation happening here this week, I've enjoyed reading and catching up. It's always so helpful for me to read the ratio stuff, I think when it has to do with #'s I block it all out.

Mimi, Shasta, and Grateful4health you are all doing so well.

Greatful, like Liana mentioned I stick to a fun meal but prior to a 1/2 marathon or lots of exercise I would load with more carb. It's tricky cuz when I eat treats I just want more.

Andrea - almond butter becomes a slippery slope for me. I like the idea of putting it on dark chocolate but think I better resist or I will be buying a piece every day.

My flu like symptoms continued most of the week. Just felt really nauseous and not hungry, that NEVER happens. Had my WI today and back to low end of range but not sure if will stay. I ate all week but I cut out some snacks and had smaller portions and just ate more mindfully.

Hi to everyone and hope everyone has something nice planned for themselves this weekend.

Liana this was such a great post, maybe there is a more permanent thread it can also land in.
Thank you, this was super helpful to me. I was headed toward this intuitively, and it saved me some trial and error to see it written and articulated and to keep trusting myself and my body….
I especially like the rule of thumb to mostly plan things that are out of my normal nutrition plan rather than just allow them to happen based on mood and circumstance. This gives me a really good mental grounding and “playpen” from which to work in. I do really well with playpens esp. ones I feel free to jump out of if I really need or want to, but for the most part that keep me on a steady course with clear guidelines.

Jenny great to hear how you are doing - sorry to hear about your week though, I hope it clears up soon.

I pulled a groin muscle last week sometime and it got worse yesterday - that’s a fun muscle to pull… not. I especially hate flu symptoms though, so I hope you feel better pretty soon.

Thank you for your encouragement

Does anyone know where the P3/P4 worksheet for tracking maintenance might be? I had downloaded it awhile back and that laptop has died so I'm using my work laptop. I love 3 Fat chicks but with so much information it's really hard to find. I did advanced searches, read thru a bunch of threads again but it's like finding a needle in a haystack!

I entered my morning breakfast into Myfitnesspal today. I felt like it was a lot of food and I think I did okay except over a little in the fat area but I'm not sure! I was planning to add avocado to my salad today but I think I might have messed up already. I see why tracking at the detail level will help. If I'm right, then I will save the avocado for tomorrow.

Shasta: I think this is what you are looking for .

Jenny: Hi there. Sorry you're still feeling sick. Hope you get better soon.

Grateful: I did a couple of fun meals right after I started Maintenance. IP encourages it. Perhaps as a "reward" for the long haul we've been on. But I think that sends the wrong message. Food shouldn't be a reward. Isn't that how most of us got here in the first place? I only did one full out all day fun day. I felt terrible and bloated the next day while doing P1. Instead of doing a full fun day I would do a fun meal and it was almost always planned in advance. When the scale didn't go up right away I didn't do a P1 day and kept upping my calories/carbs/fats and tried incorporating previously forbidden foods, i.e., donuts, chocolate, beer, ice cream and then BAM! I find myself 5 lbs over my weight that I started M at. I think once I get off these extra .lbs the lesson learned here is that I can have "occasional" treats, but not let bad habits take over again. But that being said, this is what I am going to try, everybody is different.

Also: I watched Fed Up last night. So sad to see all these overweight kids. I used to work in a school cafeteria as a Manager and I was disgusted by what was fed to the kids. I didn't last there long. The upshot is that I have reduced my sugar grams in MFP to 25 (per WHO reccomendatinons, MFP is much higher) and will work very hard to stay at or below that.

Thank you Andrea (who I decided to call Amanda for the last few times… ugh sorry!). Many of the things you mentioned affect me similarly. Especially sugar, it seems to send me down a bad road. Also in my mind - it seems to promote negativity and self judgment, which after 47 years I think I would like to be done with :-),. My particular body just doesn't seem to process it well.

My friend sent me a link to this article below, it's one I seen before, maybe on this thread, and probably we've all seen this information before. But I thought I would post it again as I thought it was helpful – it is about how sugar affects the brain. It also mentioned the effect on the brains of children, so you might find it interesting.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/69047...ushpmg00000063

Hope everyone is having a good weekend - good luck Shasta with all the new food!

Catlady - Thank you. That was what I was looking for! I watched Fed Up a few months ago and it was definitely interesting. I have elementary age kids and in general my kids eat pretty well. I make things from scratch including granola bars and even their yogurt (I buy plain and add in fruit). They eat a lot of veggies and variety. But even so my older son is more of an introvert and doesn't naturally want to exercise at all. We used to have dessert every night (not me but them). I noticed on spring break that my older son has slight love handles. It was noticeable compared to his peers. Anyway, when we got home I instituted a new rule. You can only have dessert if you exercise that day. Interestingly enough my older son shrugged it off and just eliminated the dessert. The older happily went on a walk with me and still had his dessert. Lots of lessons learned for me. But, I feel like I am giving them tools that I personally never had. I know these sort of give/take rules (fun day followed by P1 day, balancing carb/protein/fat, watching sugar, eat whole foods) will help them and me. But, yikes is it hard and expensive and the world is full of land mines.

What is the more important rule for maintenance? To separate the carb meal and fat meal or to keep the totals for the day (sorry, I think I remember it as 40%protein/30%carb/30%fat -- is that right?)

I ask because I am trying to add slow carbs to my dinner and I made a fantastic dish last night which was butternut squash+onion+pecans. Man, was it fantastic. Seriously, I couldn't believe how much I loved it. So much, that I had to stop myself from having more. I was so pleased because in my past I wouldn't consider that an indulgence but boy oh boy did it feel that way. But, when I put it into Myfitnesspal I realized that the pecans were mostly fat. No wonder! So, really I didn't separate the fat and carb. I know when I make it again I will cut down on the pecans but does that mean I can't have it at all? or I count it as a fun day (and seriously, if I'm going to have a fun day that isn't what I would pick). I did weigh myself today and I didn't gain weight. I am now down to 1 pound from when I started P3.

Grateful: I really didn't even notice the Amanda/Andrea thing. No worries. Thanks for posting that article. It just reconfirms that sugar is evil when eaten in excess.

Shasta: It would be hard for me to pin down just one most important thing for Maint. But based on the two things that you mentioned, it's more important to me to keep the fat/carb separation per meal. And I do this by putting meals into MFP BEFORE I cook them. It is a bit time consuming but I made some meals early on and then put them into MFP only to discover that I had prepared two fat meals in a day. The food was already cooked and I'm too thrifty to throw it out and too lazy to start another meal and save that one for the next fat meal. Others may say that the weekly numbers are more important, or that something completely different is the most important thing, but I think by making it a practice to see what the numbers are at each meal creates a habit that will be more beneficial in the long run, at least to me. At some point, I want to be able to create meals without having to consult MFP every single time. But for right now, since I'm still new at this, I will plug in everything.

As far as the % you mentioned, those come from your settings in MFP and are completely up to you, are totally based on calories and are completely different than the IP #'s. The IP ratios are 3:1, as in for the fat meal 3 times as much fat as carb and for the carb meal, 3 times as much carb as fat. These are two different sets of data but both are used to watch your intake, both caloric and by ratios.

My current settings in MFP are 35% carb/40% fat/25% protein and these are based on total amounts of calories. I don't always hit those, but I do track them and if I see that I have been eating higher carb and my .lbs have gone up, I try (don't always succeed) to eat lower carb for a few days. But when I first started using it in Maint. it was closer to 35/35/30. I tracked how I was actually eating and adjusted them to match while slowly upping my calories.

IP hasn't done the best job of guiding us in Maint. We sort of have to figure out what works and it's completely individual. Thank goodness for this board and the great people here or I would have been totally lost. Hope this helps and doesn't totally confuse you.

I personally feel, that the separation 3:1 'rule' is most important for me to keep my maintenance weight. The reason I am doing an 8 lb reboot after 13 months in maintenance is because I was starting to eat high carb (craisins) and high fat (cheese) together as a snack in the evening. And (for me) of course, in combination it makes me crave more and there are way too many calories eaten.
When I wasn't doing that, I could still eat a higher amount of fats OR carbs and not have a real problem with lbs going on.
I ignore my MFP percentages and have no idea what they are. I just watch my macro numbers and make sure I am eating enough protein (not a problem for me) & fibre in the day, and my meal ratios are close to 3:1, and keeping my sugar grams lower than specified by MFP.
Liana