Ouch!! Doesn't sound like fun at all!

Eeek! RuthAnn....that sounds awful! Kids ARE very resilient, so I'm more worried about the activity restrictions for her because she's such a little monkey!

So, I had a cancellation yesterday at work which afforded the opportunity to scour more concrete info on P4 guidelines for those of us just starting. I found an old Three Fat Chicks thread specifically for P4 starters. I jotted down some of the information that people posted there (mostly from their individual coaches).

1) Drink at least 1/2 your weight (in oz?) in water daily
2) Get a minimum of 1/2 your weight in grams of protein daily (some suggested the .8 rule...which makes sense with heavy exercise)
3) 3 meals a day and 3 small snacks a day (fruit, nuts, cheese, protein bar), some coaches say two snacks
4) Breakfast per P3 guidelines
5) Lunches may include 6-7oz meat, 2 cups veggies, with 10-20 oz of fat (depending on your on metabolic tolerance), following 3 fat g : 1 carb g ratio
6) Dinners may or may not include meat (depending on overall protein intake), two cups veggies, and slow-carbs (15g) such as brown rice, pasta, lentils, dried beans or potatoes. You may have 5g of fat at dinner not including your meat (again, follow opposite ratio of 3g carbs : 1g fat).

Now I have read some things stating a suggested dessert at dinner of fruit or yogurt, but not sure if this fits in with the dinner ratio (I suspect not, since fruit if so high in carbs?).

I know seasoned maintainers will find their own systems that work, but having a little more structure seems to help me at least to start with. Hopefully it will help others, too. Let me know if any of this seems off, veterans!

I think the list can be made even simpler... Just make sure to use your 3:1 ratio (I don't actually 'limit' my fats to 10-20 grams - I'm thinking grams is what you meant since 20 oz of fat is a lot!), Eat at least 2 c of veg at your meal for a total of 4+ c a day. Complex non-processed carbs are definitely the best way to go for your carb meal (which doesn't actually have to be at dinner according to IP office - I asked on their internal video chat site) but unless you are very sensitive you don't have to keep it down to 15g with 5g of fat (or you won't get anything to eat). Again just keep it 3:1. You get to eat fruit at your snack or at your carb meal for dessert - it's all good. Yogourt could fit into your carb meal if it's plain and 0% or into your fat meal if its plain & 11% (Olympic Krema - YUMMM!). Fruit-added yogourt could be used for carb meal but not the fat meal.

Do the water & protein suggestions and P3 style breaky and 5 or 6 meal/snacks a day. Voila, there you are.

Thanks again, Liana! Yes, fat GRAMS not ounces! I think the numbers will only help me to at least do a starting point until I know how my body does.

Here's a question for maintainers: My hubby just TOTALLY insulted me when I told him I picked up a few thrift store clothes by saying, "Yeah, you're looking a little skeletal." Grrrrrrr! What a way to make a girl feel pretty.....

So, I am TOTALLY at a healthy weight...MUCH heavier than when we met in high school or even when we got married. I do notice my face looks thinner, and I think I remember an old IP post about how your glycogen stores sort of "fluff you out" all over once those come back. Was this the case for you all?

I just can't see 15g of carb for a carb meal - last night's carb meal for me was 42g net and fat at 14g. 3/4 cup of black beans alone is 18g carb net... that leaves you NO veggies at all. I'd use the 15 g of carb for a fat meal maybe and then have 45g fat, bwahahah!
A couple servings of full fat cheese and an avocado - maybe some hazelnuts...

evemomma, maybe you only look skeletal because your 'too-big' clothes are hanging off you, lol.
Liana

Love the Skelton! So, I found a phase 4 meal planning sheet with same info. But should clarify it's the slow-carb that is 15g ....not counting veggies! I hope beyond hope my body can manage more carbs than the bare minimum!

If you aren't having trouble with feeling hungry cravings after your big P3 breakfasts you probably don't have to be quite as strict with that number, I'm thinkin'. Also, you haven't really gained any weight with your P2/3 (you may be in the same situation as I was - losing right into maintenance) so I don't know if you are quite as carb sensitive as you think you are... What may have triggered you pre-IP was the combo of fats and sugars (and even salt, surprisingly) in your favorite treats. I'm not trying to push you into a mega carb feast, lol. Just thinking you may not have as difficult a maintenance journey as you are visualizing. I'm hopin' this for you too!

Can't say as I 'fluffed out' after getting into maintenance, I know I did restore my glycogen, just because that's basic biology, but I actually still lost inches up until a month ago, although not losing weight - just tightening up now that I've been exercising more. My face is definitely thinner than at my pre-IP weight and I don't think it will fill out any, but at least it's not too droopy, lol.

Evemomma, I got a lot of too thin comments because my face and neck area thinned out. Then I cut my hair and suddenly- I looked fantastic to everyone. How do you feel about how you look? That is the important thing.

I have been VERY happy that I have not experienced cravings after P3 breakfasts...in fact, I'll admit I'm having a hard time getting in all my food because I'm really just not that hungry.

I am going to think HAPPY thoughts that you are right about my carb-tolerance!

What led me to get gain weight is the vast amount of junk food that I was pouring into my body on a daily basis, lol! I totally lost my ability to make sensible choices. I have never had a huge appetite, which I think is why I had never had TOO much trouble with my weight until we had our stillborn son 4 years ago. Then I just became a HUGE emotional eater.

I shudder at how many calories I was pushing daily between Starbucks Frappucinos and McDonald's and donuts and the like.

SOOOOOOoooo glad to be back on track and in control again......!

I think I look pretty good if I do say so myself!!!! I always had a very thin face before I gained weight, so I suppose that is just something people will have to get used to! I am by no means too skinny!!!! Although, I am looking forward to now getting "lean and MEAN" by building up my muscles at the gym instead of "skinny".

Ruth Ann and BubbleBlower and Evemomma:

Thanks for checking on me.

My (groin area) hernia repair was done laparoscopically with mesh to reinforce the gaps. My surgeon told me that I'd be moving pretty gingerly the first 3-4 days, that I'd be able to start light exercise in 2 weeks (that will be next Friday), heavy exercise in 6 weeks and that I'd be completely healed in 9 months.

I survived my first day back to work, but I was sore. Much more walking than I've been doing (but I took it SLOOOOOWLY). Also, sitting upright in an office chair for 8 hours instead of my recliner was uncomfortable.

Today was my second day back, and it was similar. I had to stand part way in on the Metro (subway). THAT was ouchy. I was almost tempted to pull my Old Fart Card and ask: "Would you mind giving up your seat?"

Again, I was walking slowly and trying to get up and move around a bit during the day. I kept feeling like atrophy was setting in. :-)

I'm glad to be home, but I've got a bit of running around to do this weekend. I'm gonna try to take it as easy as possible, so I won't be going to the Acoustic Guitar meet up group I just found. It was going to be my first showing, but I'll wait for the next gathering in two weeks. I can't really play yet, anyway. Holding my guitar with proper posture really isn't comfortable yet.

I'm feeling "mushy" in the middle. I'm sure it's a combination of swelling, being out of shape, not being able to hold in my stomach muscles and probably a bit of fat storage (which is where the last of it lives). My weight is only up a few pounds - which is fine for now.

As I mentioned previously, I'm really playing it loose with my diet for now, but I'm about ready to start reining that in pretty soon.

I had a banana before I left for work, then ate at the crapateria once I got there. Breakfast (everything omelet [2 eggs, sausage patty, bacon, ham, shredded cheddar cheese, tomatoes, mushrooms, spinach] with wheat toast and butter, and some potatoes) and lunch (Chipotle Chicken Salad Bowl - lettuce, chicken, black beans, tomato salsa, spicy salsa, sour cream, cheese) were quite a bit over the top today. I had a grapefruit as my afternoon snack.

So "dinner" was kinda funny tonight. I ate a raw red bell pepper, made steel cut Irish Oatmeal (1/2 cup dry) and threw in some mixed frozen berries, cinnamon and vanilla extract. Now I'm having a glass of wine. hehehehe

At least I'm not breaking open the $110 bottle of 15 year old Scotch that I bought as a thank you gift for my supervisor. He took me to my surgery, hung out until it was over, took me home, fixed dinner for me, spent the night and stayed with me for most of the next day.

I really would have preferred to have some hot chick do all that for me, but I've already enlightened y'all on that topic. :-)

I did, however, buy myself a bottle of 14 year old Scotch which I WILL crack open on my birthday next month.

At work we were laughing about my mug shot on my security badge from almost 3 years ago. I weighed 70 pounds more than I do now, had longer hair and had a mustache and goatee. My face is much thinner now, too. My boss said I look 10 years younger, and 15 years less scary. hahaha

evemomma - I got a few "too thin" comments from people but I just giggled at them. I know I'm at a healthy weight. I noticed that my boss looked somewhat gaunt just before he phased off and quickly lost that look when he started maintenance so there may be something to the "fluffing" idea.

I actually have less saggy skin in my face than I expected to. A friend of mine who runs a skin clinic gave me some creams to use at night and the morning that seemed to help and, of course, staying hydrated helps. I have some but I'm 52 - it's going to happen! Figure it's a lot less unflattering than an extra 125 lbs.

JHep - Taking it easy this weekend is probably a good idea. You could plan menus and read recipes! And what a nice boss and friend to do that for you. Of course, if he doesn't want the Scotch I think there's a few of us around that could help you with it!

It's rather startling sometimes to see old pictures of us isn't it? I was stopped for some reason the other day and the cop did a triple take - told me I really needed a new license.

So my coach and I have cut me down to once a month weigh ins instead of bi-weekly. It's kind of strange not to be going in as often but I suspect I will do fine. And of course, she is always available to me.

JHep....rest up this weekend!

RuthAnn....Isn't it interesting how losing weight seems to invite unsolicited and potentially "rude" comments about one's physique that people would've NEVER said previously? No one ever told me I was "too fat", lol!!! I don't have a lot of sagging skin, mostly on my arms.....but fairly lucky besides that. Of course, I'll be 40 next summer so I'm not seeking perfection here!

Jhep Good luck returning to work and take it easy.

I have a hernia from my twin pregnancy twenty years ago. Since it has not bothered me I am not doing anything about it. The drs say it is ok.

Evemomma: I had my husband also say I was too thin. I told him my dr said my bmi was healthy. Now 3 years later he does not comment anymore.
It is amazing that people think they can comment on your weight.

RuthAnn. My face is not saggy either..more around my stomach. Like you say I would rather be 100 pounds thinner and put up with it.

Here are some things I wrote.

I like this quote. " A decision about what to weigh is a decision on how to live." In other words, if you are committed to staying at your goal weight, you have to adopt the life that goes with it. This means that you not only have to live in a way that matches your goals at the moment, but you also have to accept that you will be doing this for the rest of your life.
I am content with this life I have chosen of maintenance.

In Refuse to Regain the author offers clues about reaching what she calls Senior Level of Maintenance. This is when you realize that you are more comfortable with your food choices and are a lot better at managing your weight than before.
Here are clues to this new level;

You rarely miss your old way of eating.
( I do not miss the bingeing on unhealthy foods that I used to do.)

You enjoy and prefer your new eating habits.
(I have healthy foods that I do love to eat)

You no longer feel controlled by food.
(I do feel much more control over my food choices and that food is no longer my enemy.)

You are comfortable with eating many of the same types of food repeatedly.
(This is very true.)

You are not particularly interested in Sugar Foods or Refined Carbs.
( I have lost much of the desire for these foods..but not totally!)

When you do occasionally eat these foods, you are not compelled to overeat and are able to return to your plan the next day.
( I have stopped bingeing. Once in awhile I might eat to being too full but it is on a healthy food.)

When you choose to eat foods that are off your plan, you generally find them less enjoyable.
( Here I deviate..I usually enjoy the foods I choose to indulge in.)

You know intuitively the foods and amounts that will keep you from gaining weight.
( I do know what foods and amounts will be keep me maintaining.)

You are acutely aware of unhealthy diet habits of those around you.
(This is an odd clue. I have noticed that I am very aware of healthy fit people and admire them for staying toned and thin.)

You feel free.
(A big yes here. I feel the freedom of being thin and managing addiction.)

The final comment is helpful. " When you are a senior maintainer, it does not mean that you will never have a difficult day, but it does mean that you have found peace with the way you think about food, physical activity, and priorities."

I have found my peace.

I am dealing with family health issues. I am still maintaining and am glad that I have found peace in my weight, when other areas of my life are not peaceful.

Maile, thank you so much for posting such thought provoking information. When things slow down a bit with school, I am going to buy the book. Observing you as a long term maintainer, really emphasizes that the maintenance program is a life style- not just a way to get rid of UP pounds. I especially love that you have found your peace.

Eve, it has amazed me that people feel free to say whatever they want about my weight loss with pretty much, no filter. I have decided that most comments come from concern or good intentions and a few come from people with issues. Maybe, the comments are part of them accepting that "we" may be different now. Different in the way we look, but also in attitude.

JHep, hope your weekend provides you rest and time to heal. You have mentioned a couple of times that you have relaxed your eating during your recuperation, have you weighed yourself to see where you are scale wise?

Ruth Ann, I always love your positive outlook on things. You are right a little loose skin looks better than my body with 93 extra pounds on it! But the jiggle of my bat wings freaks me out. I went sleeveless all week at school this week anyway, because it was in the high 80s, super high humidity and no AC. I also noticed that some of my girls were worried about being too heavy- because they were wearing sweaters or coats. So I made the conscious decision to bare my bat wings hoping to be a role model for acceptance. Not sure if it helped or that the heat just got to them but they were wearing summer clothes by the end of the week.

Jenny, how was school for your twins?