Trish, I sent you something in email that I found on another Diabetes forum. It's interesting and I think it might apply to your situation. I like reading that forum, but they depend so much on insulin and I am not in favor of that. They follow LCHF, but still inject insulin. And they seem to criticize anyone who doesn't. That's why I tend to read and not post there. I would like to do a search and see if anyone there is controlling their diabetes without insulin, using diet and exercise instead.

Hi there,
I am doing just that, but I am using a LCHF diet combined with intermittent fasting. You have to have the fasting component for it to work.

I would strongly encourage you to look into the work of Jason Fung. He is a doctor out of Canada who is successfully treating diabetics through this approach. The research from early 2000s on shows that the recommendations of the American Diabetes Association are deeply flawed and based on outdated theory. I am more than happy to share what I've learned with anyone who wants to know.

Hello Mygoalz. Welcome to our thread. I do read Dr Jason Fung on IDM and have also read his latest book about fasting. I do some IF but have a hard time with long term fasting. It's just not for me. I know that BS can be controlled with diet and exercise, but I was looking for someone on that particular site I mentioned who was controlling blood sugar without meds.

Tell us more about yourself and join into our discussion. We always like to hear new ideas.

Carol Sue Thanks. I will check it out, but I am more interested in being able to control my bs with diet and exercise and definitely without taking insulin.

mygoalz I can do some IF, but I cannot stand HF so doing LCHF would not work for me either. I've watched Dr. Fung on YouTube and read one of his books and articles online. I can do a form of low carb, but not the high fat. Too much fat along with too much fiber seems to send me running to the potty with bowel issues. Thanks for you input though. I appreciate it.

Had a couple of busy days with going to doctor and then going to Daddy's. We decided to get him and take him and meet DS at Cheddars for dinner and then go do his meds. I think the combination of the food was extremely salty and that DD overate, he got sick in the restaurant just as we were getting ready to leave. We found out when DH and I took him home that he has done this more often than DS and I knew. He had spastic stomach for years so not sure if it is flaring up again. We see CHF clinic nurse Tuesday, but may have to make appoint to see his primary before his scheduled visit on August 24th if it continues. We went out to Denny's for breakfast and he did fine. So not sure what is going on. We watch him like a hawk.

My freedom of eating like I am is working great for me. Yesterday I decided that I wanted the country fried steak plate with mashed potatoes, gravy and southern green beans at Cheddars. Amazingly only gained .2 lbs from yesterday. However, I did some of my IE ideas. I really enjoyed about half the potatoes and then when I was satisfied with the fried stead, I removed about a third of the batter and had just the steak for protein. That is how I want to eat and enjoy what I really want to eat in a way so that when I eat something I consider "off" plan like I did yesterday that it won't throw me a big gain for several days. Today at Denny's, I ate the 20 g Protein Fit Slam which is an egg omelet loaded with good veggies. It came with hash browns and WW toast. I ate about 3/4 of the omelet, 1/2 the hash browns and 1 slice of toast. I counted the whole calories for all of it just to be safe.

We are having tacos today and I am having a taco salad made with whole-grain tortilla chips. I am not needing snacks so far and my diet drink helps with that as well.

I ordered another book yesterday and will get it tomorrow. I am looking into the Glycemic Load of our foods. I just ordered the Glycemic Load Counter for now. I notice the guy who wrote it also has one for diabetics, but I honestly believe that with the Reader's Digest book I have on the subject has enough info that I won't need to buy another book on it.

Have a good evening everyone.

Trish, I sure hope your Dad is OK. Do you think he is overeating at home or does he go out to eat without you. Poor guy. Just wants to enjoy his food, but I know he has to be careful.

I had 2 eggs for breakfast and a big salad for lunch. DH ordered a pizza for his dinner so I am poaching some salmon for me. He doesn't eat it very often, so that's a good thing for me to make for myself when he's eating something else. I have never poached it before so I'll be curious to see how it turns out. Sometimes it's too dry when I grill it.

There used to be a stray cat that came to our yard for a couple years and DH would feed him. All of a sudden one day he never came, so I guess something happened to him. Recently, a rabbit has shown up, and sits in the same spot the cat used to sit and waits for DH to give him something to eat. Right now he's eating pizza crust. LOL I never really believed in reincarnation, but it seems our cat came back as a rabbit. LOL

Carol Sue I laughed when I read about your DH feeding the rabbit pizza crust. I didn't know they would eat anything but what we dieters call "rabbit" food. I loved the cat reincarnated as a rabbit. LOL Thanks for the chuckle.

I was so tempted to try the salmon at Cheddars but I was afraid I wouldn't like it. It would have been better if I had. Although I've been hungry for country fried steak for weeks, but won't eat it because it isn't always nice to me and I end up with bowel issues. I knew I was going straight from there to DD and then straight home so I decided to eat it.

I don't think DD goes out without us although he has gone to get take out when he is feeling better. I just hope he isn't developing some other problem. He sure doesn't need his stomach problems returning. He has an appointment with his primary the end of August, but if I think he needs to see him before then, I certainly will call and make an appointment. I won't even ask DD or DS. I'll just make an appointment. There are medicines to help it.

I looked up the link you sent me. I couldn't get it to work at first, but finally just googled the title and got it. I also found some reviews people had written on WebMD who are taking berberine in place of Metformin. Someone even mentioned that their doctor took them off Actose and put them on bererine in place of it and their A1c had come down to normal. I was very impressed with the reviews. I was always impressed to see where one lady around my age had lost 20 lbs and lowered her cholesterol.

I've also read in other places when I first heard about it that it can take up to 3 weeks to begin to see results and up to 3 months to see big improvement even can be normal in 3 to 6 months. Of course, I think the diet and exercise probably plays a big role in how it works. I am hoping for big improvement on my numbers when I go back for blood work in January. I appreciate you sharing that link with me because DH is taking berberine with his Metformin. I surely do hope it will help him have improved numbers when he goes back in October for his blood work.

He does love his goodies. I read in Dr. Whitaker's book that he researched Splenda and it isn't as bad as he thought it was and recommends Stevia 1st and then Splenda. I am going to start making cookies for DH using Splenda. Also there are some foods we like that are just better fried. I told DH I want one of those Air-Fryers to cook some of the things we like fried without oil. Also, I can then experiment using other flours in place of white flour. My DS who lives in MS and is supposed to be moving here hopefully in September, takes oatmeal and grinds it into flour and fries with it. I've done that since she told me, but somethings just doesn't fry good in Pam. The Air-Fryer would be very helper with a lot of cooking. I watched the guy cook French fries in that thing without any grease. It would be nice to keep some of our foods only make them lighter without the grease. Amazon has one for around $75 rather than the $160 one sold on tv and my birthday is next month. It probably isn't as big or it doesn't have the accessories with it. I saw one at Sam's club too so I may look there before I order one.

Well, I guess I've been wordy today. Making up for MIA yesterday. LOL

am at the cottage for a few days. Lets see how well I can stick to plan this time. last time was way off, booze and sweets galore.
This time will be a different crowd, and I really want to learn to eat on plan with other people around, I don't want to be a hermit all the time.
Am also battling a UTI, the meds are starting to work, but that puts me off my game a bit. But already went for a swim and a walk, so time up here will be active at least.

Trish, I'm surprised that link didn't work for you. It worked perfectly for me. The most interesting part to me was the big improvement the woman had using berberine, milk thistle and apple cider vinegar. When she tried dropping just one of them, her BS jumped up. I am not one to like supplements, but this might be worth a try. And she was a regular person posting on a forum, not an advertisement. I think a lot of people, including myself, will try something for a short time and give up thinking it doesn't work, when some things take a while to take effect.

My salmon turned out good. I cooked 2 pieces. I saw some different directions online. The first one said to put the salmon and the liquid in the pan at the same time. That caused a lot of the fat to leak out into the liquid, and the healthy fat is the reason I'm eating it. I don't want to lose that. So the second one said to heat the liquid just to a boil, then add the salmon and turn it down to a very low simmer. That worked much better and much less fat leaked out. I had some dill dip mix that I combined with some plain greek yogurt and it really hit the spot. I will do that again.

I think you should try the salmon, unless it is cooked with a sugary glaze. Maybe if you really don't like it they would offer you something else, or you might be pleasantly surprised. I used to love country fried steak and ordered it often, but it gives me heart burn now. I can no longer eat things breaded or fried, and I try to avoid anything with a sauce or gravy. Funny, but I am OK with healthy fat, like salmon, avacado, olives, nuts. I am going to try to eat more salmon, even canned. We know this woman who is 89 years old. She is so active and doesn't look or act nearly her age. She told us she eats salmon several times a week. I do love it, and I can eat red sockeye salmon straight from the can. Yum.

Mad, I hope you have an enjoyable time at the cottage. I think a big key is to learn to be out socializing with friends but finding a way to stick to your own eating plan. We will always be exposed to tempting foods. We can't hide out at home to avoid it. And making healthier choices might influence your friends to do the same.

I'm doing a test today with my blood sugar. I tested at 5:30 am at 165. Went back to bed. Got up at 7 and tested at 172. All I've had since has been 2 coffees with my sugar free creamer at 2 gm carb per TBS and I only use a tsp in each cup. Now at 8:30 I'm at 226. This is the time that I usually test fasting. It's scary to see it go that high, but I want to see how it continues without meds or eating, and then tomorrow I will switch to taking Metformin and eating to see how it differs. At this point I usually take the Glimiperide to bring it down, but that is just increasing my insulin levels. I'm glad I have the Glimiperide to bring it down, but I just feel that there's a better answer than that.

Continuing on.

Around 8:30 I had eggs with mushrooms, black coffee and half a banana.

10:30 - 231, up just a bit from the 226 at 8:30

Went to Walmart, so walked around for about 30 min.

12:30 Down to 212, so starting downward. Still no meds.

While in Walmart, I noticed their display of Relion strips was almost empty. They only had a couple boxes of 25s so I grabbed one to hold me over. When I came home, I went online to check to see if they are discontinuing them and saw nothing. I was, however, able to order a box of 100 for store pickup. I'm curious to see if I am able to get them, or if they notify me that they are unavailable. Usually it tell you that right online before to finalize your order. Maybe they got them in but they just haven't been stocked yet. I hope they are not discontinued. I hate the thought of paying a higher price for something different. I've been satisfied with Relion.

Test will continue for the rest of the day. I might end up taking meds at dinner time depending on what I'm having. I really don't want my blood sugar to stay this high all day.

fatmad Enjoy your time at the cottage. I'm sure you will be fine. I notice you do a lot of walking and that is probably the best exercise you can do. DH and I can't do that right now, because it is too hot in upper 90s and low 100s right now. DH complains, but he isn't a natural born Texan so I keep telling that this is good for end of July and going into August as it could really be worse. I've seen these numbers as early as May which is also rare. I'm thankful it has been mild this year breaking us in to TX weather.

Carol Sue My Walmart closest to me was the best in the area yrs ago when it opened and my step-mom worked there. A lot has to do with the managers. Our diabetic stuff gets low too and then I go in the next time and they have gobs of stuff. They have just put out new meters at our store so I don't think they are going to discontinue. I couldn't get my particular eyebrow pencil in SC and was made to believe they were discontinuing them so I buy them up as soon as I see new ones. However, I find them all the time here in Waco. So I think that is all manager discretion.

Yesterday I think I read on that diabetic site that one girl was drinking just a tsp of apple cider vinegar in some warm water before she goes to bed and lowering her FBS. She was one who is taking berberine. I thought I would start trying that at night. However, my FBS was down to 149 this morning which is the lowest it has been since I started taking it.

I am also trying to tweak my plan as I want to do the 8:16 IF way of eating and go 4 hrs between meals. I did throw in a snack which would take it to a 10:14 window which I read in a IF article was not only acceptable but worked best for women. It said that men do better on 8:16 than women. It recommended 9 or 10 hr eating window for women. However, I don't like to eat after 8 even when I stay up late. I do want to start eating a snack of celery because it is so good for so many things so I may just add it to my last meal of the day.

I found it interesting to read in those berberine reviews that berberine works like Metformin and that you do have the potty issues while getting use to it. I have noticed that although it doesn't seem to be as severe for me. It is just loose, not as harsh as the Metformin. I know that is probably TMI, but just in case anyone else decides to try it, it does help to know.

I missed my cappacino drinks so I went to Walmart yesterday and I said "Lord, I sure wish this store would start selling my SF French Vanilla creamer in a smaller bottle." I was surprised that when I got back to the dairy that Walmart had their own brand in the smaller size. So I was able to make a cup of coffee with it this morning and blend it in the Magic Bullet and feel like I am having a treat. I'll have another one this afternoon as a treat instead of just a cup of coffee.

Carol Sue I think as you get your diet and exercise plan like you want it that you will see the numbers come down better. Try not to get stressed out over the way things are going either. I cannot believe how relaxed I am knowing what my doctor expects of me and is working with me. DH wishes he would point blank tell him don't do this and don't do that, but I like him telling me how he feels about what I'm doing and encourages me rather than criticize or make me feel bad. I think the stress contributes to our bs reading as well.

My new doctor is a lot like the doctor who first diagnosed me. I always remember what that doctor said to me when I went to see him because it encourages me to keep working at what I'm doing and making changes where I need to. He said he was giving me the diet plan the ADA tells him to give, but he could not tell me what or to eat. He said "You will figure that out yourself. He said, "You will, you will figure it out". Two weeks later I was off the meds and he told me, "You are one of the lucky ones who can do it with diet and exercise". I took a diet book with me that I had found in my Mama's collection of books when she died called Fit for Life and asked him if it was a good way to eat. He skimmed over it and said "Yes, this is the way my wife eats". She is a tiny oriental lady and she was one of his nurses in the office. They are both oriental and are into "health food" eating. I would still be going to him if he was still practicing, but he retired a few years ago. In fact, he was the D.O. for this clinic group when they were in another location. My DS said that when he left, the doctor she goes to now bought out that clinic and moved it where it is now. They have expanded their building since I came here and is why they could take me when they hired my D.O. I like the D.O. because they don't usually like to push meds on people that they don't need so when they recommend it you probably do needed it. However, I noticed that a lot of these new young doctors have the same attitude of the D.O.

I believe you will figure out how to make all this work for you as well. The key is to never give up. I remember the health food store owner I worked for years ago who said to me "There isn't anything that cannot be cured if you just knew what to do". That is why I keep going. I know here is an answer out there some where and if it can be find, I am going to keep looking until I do.

Have a good day.

I got the little GL counter book. It has GL, GI, Calories, Carbs and Fat counts. I absolutely understand now how I should be eating to lose weight and lower my FBS. Lower carb although not necessarily Atkins low. WW has the right plan.

Protein and fat are basically 0 GL but are high in calories. I learned that most non-starchy veggies are low GL and even a lot of fruit we used to think we couldn't eat because of the high GI are actually good for us because they are low GL because of water content. Lowfat dairy are low GL. Potatoes boiled with skin are the best to be eaten because they have a low GL. I see that bread has a very high GL.

The book recommends eating a lot more carbs than I think I want to eat. So I will use the book to decide which carbs I will include and which ones I want don't so I can keep the calories and carbs down. I want to keep the dairy carbs, some of the low GL starchy veggies and fruit along with the non-starchy carbs. While I will not cut the bread and SF treats out completely, I will be cutting back on them quite a bit. Understanding some of the numbers behind the way of eating is so helpful in decisions I will make in the future.

Have a blessed weekend.

To continue on with the rest of my test from yesterday. After coming home from walking around Walmart, at 2:15 my blood sugar had come down to 142 from 212, so I thought that was a pretty big drop. Unfortunately, we went out again and I forget to take my meter, so I don't know what it was before dinner, and we ate dinner pretty late. Since I didn't know my BS and I didn't have my meds to take, I ordered a meal salad, that included chicken and some french fries, and used ranch dressing. I'm estimating 4 carb gms for the dressing because it was a really big salad, and being hungry, I ate it all. We got home around 10 PM and at that time my BS was 170. I too a Metformin when I went to bed, but not a Glimiperide.

Now this morning it was 196 at 5 AM. Maybe I should have eaten something then, but I went back to bed until 8:30. At that time it was 206. I took Metformin again and ate a slice of cheese and a half glass of milk. Now I want to see what it does with eating as soon as I get up, instead of waiting like I like to do. If there is no improvement, I will continue to wait until later for my first food. But if it goes up the same as yesterday, then I will still continue to fast until I am hungry. This is the purpose of this test. I want to see how MY body reacts to the different situations.

Trish, the more I read about Berberine, the more interested I am in trying it. I read a lot about it yesterday and the only bad thing I saw was the possible potty issues, and I have them anyway. It also interacts with some meds, but they are nothing I am on. The woman on the diabetes site said she is taking it with milk thistle. I found a combo on Amazon of Berberine with Milk Thistle and am considering getting it if I can find something else to order to avoid shipping charges. Where do you get your Berberine?

Another odd thing happened yesterday, and maybe as a nurse, Mad can chime in on this. My Fitbit measures my constant heart rate, then if you tap it, it will show your resting heart rate. I take a med that slows my heart rate and my resting is usually around the 57 bpm range. Yesterday when I had gone a very long time without eating, I checked it while I was just riding in the car, and my heart rate was only 53. My resting heart rate still showed 57. That concerned me that my heart rate was showing so low, but after I ate, it was back up to 57-60 range, where it normally is. I am wondering if going a long time without eating can slow your heart rate. When I was in the hospital and was not allowed any food for 6 days both my BP and heart rate were very low. I thought it was dangerously low but the nurses didn't seem concerned. So I'm wondering if lack of food does that. Maybe I will google it, too.

Sometime today I will go back to taking my Glimiperide. I don't want to let my BS stay this high much longer. I am just trying to understand it better. I know that DR Fung discussed this in his blog and said not to let it alarm you and that it will improve with more fasting. He is very much against meds except for the ones in that article I sent you. I can read and read about it, but the only way to see how it affects ME is to do it on myself.

My doctor is a DO, but he has never discussed diet with me. The only thing he ever said was when I told him I was trying to stay away from carbs and he said "That should help you lose weight." He did not discourage me from eating low carb.

Do you get humidity in TX or is it dry heat like in AZ? I experienced the dry heat when we went to Las Vegas, but it was in October so it wasn't the extreme heat, but hot enough!! We have had a lot of hot weather this summer for PA.

Trish, I'm confused about the apple cider vinegar. I bought the organic with the mother, which is what you're supposed to use. I was adding it to all my water than I drank throughout the day. Then for a while I tried drinking it at bedtime. I saw no change at all. Then I read somewhere that you are supposed to drink it before a meal containing carbs. I also looked into using a carb blocker, but when I read the ingredients, the main ingredient is chromium, and I already have that. I get no noticeable different with that either, but I'm thinking I have to use it for a while for it to kick in. Maybe I'll try it again. I expect changes overnight. LOL

I just took my Glimiperide. Checking my BS at 10:30, it was 256!! So, eating did NOT stop the climb like some people say it does. Now I will go back to waiting until I'm hungry to eat, which really makes me sense to me and taking the Glimiperide accordingly.

I was reading some comments from other Fitbit users and they also said their heart rate dipped a bit when fasting, so that explains why mine went back up after I ate.

I just got an email from Walmart that my strips are ready for pick-up, so I will be going there and doing some more walking. I am also curious to see if the shelves are stocked with more strips. We used to go to a Walmart that was 10 miles away and their shelves were rarely empty. Now they built a new one 5 miles from us, but they often have empty shelves. I heard that their stockers only work until 2PM, so if you go in the evening, you might have trouble. But I have never seen the Relion strips that empty. Sometimes they are out of the 100 pack which is the best deal, but there are usually a lot of the 50 pack on the shelves. As much as I test, I don't want to have to switch to more expensive strips. DH buys this hand cream that comes in a big jar and only 3 jars fit on the shelf, so that item is often empty.

Carol Sue Your experiment is interesting and I agree we only knows if something works if it works for us.

I wonder about the checking FBS as soon as I get up too. I notice it seemed like it was a little lower when I was getting up earlier too although it was as soon as I got up. I've thought about taking the meter in the bathroom and checking soon after I get up and before I shower. I've showered and dressed 1st thing in the morning because of people living with us and it has become a habit. Before then I would get up and go into the living room and rest a while and check FBS and bp before I showered and dressed. Maybe I should go back to that. Also staying up late till 1 and 2 in the morning with DH doesn't give me a full nights rest either. I just automatically wake up at least by 8ish and that doesn't give me near the 7 hr minimum sleep. Although I do rest good.

I know what you mean about the Relion strips. I wouldn't be able to test bs as often if I had to go to another meter.

I'm not sure I would get the berberine and the milk thistle together. I may be wrong and will have to read about it, but I already have potty issues at times and if I remember rightly the milk thistle could make it worse. I'll check that out. I saw that the girl on the diabetic site took the combo of milk thistle, ACV and berberine. The combo could be good, but I'm not sure I would buy both in one pill. Like I say, I'll have to read up on that one. I haven't taken it in years. Of course back then I had the opposite problem and it didn't seem to help. LOL

I drank the ACV before bed last night. My FBS was 149 yesterday and was 151 this morning. Not that big a difference, but I didn't get a full nights sleep since I went to bed after 2 and got up at 8:45 and I know that not getting at least 7 hrs sleep affects my FBS. So I'll continue for a while and see if it helps.

I ate a normal breakfast like I similar to what I ate in the hospital but with the knowledge I got from the GL book. I want to put oat meal back into my plan because it lowers cholesterol. So I made 1/2 a serving because a whole serving is just too much for me. I put my fruit of 1/2 banana and a handful of fresh blueberries that I needed to get rid of. As they did in the hospital, I had 1 egg, a slice of Sarah Lee Multi-grain bread w/a smidgen of butter and 2 slices of bacon instead of one. If I continue with this breakfast menu, I will cut the bacon to 1 slice only because of the sodium is kind of high. As we know when we cut back on calories or fat, they seem to add sodium for the flavor. Breakfast was a little over 400 calories.

It is my plan to keep just enough of the good starches in my diet plan so that when I do eat more than usual at one meal that I will not have a big jump in weight. Also, this GL book confirms what I have read about why we need some of those carbs. That is where we get our B vitamins. DH and I take a lot of vitamins. I would like to learn how to eat so we don't have to take them. I think most of them are synthetic and my doctor is right. Most of them don't do us any good. If we were guaranteed they were natural without synthetic ingredients, we might could trust them, but we really can't be sure these days. I watched a show the other day about Organic foods and some of the food we buy that says Organic really isn't organic at all. They say they stamp Organic on things in Green because the people who are concerned for the environment of the earth will think it is healthier and safer and buy it. Things have gotten crazy these days. So I will keep them in my food plan like they did at the hospital.

Hey did you know if you boil you potatoes with the skin that it lowers the GL making it better than any other way to cook them? That makes them a healthy carb. Mashing them seems to raise the GL. Interesting isn't. If you like rice, the basmati rice and long grain white microwaved is only 13 GL. Brown rice which we are always told to eat is 22 GL. I've never microwaved rice. I would have to learn how to do that.

I actually lost 1 lb this week. So that is good. I need to be patient and be satisfied will a slower weight loss. The goal is to lose it and be healthy and this seems to be the way to do it. I intend to do this as healthy as I can. I know I cannot say "I'll never eat.... again". So I am going to shoot for 80% healthy and 20% treats. I'm just going to work at learning how to do that 20% a little healthier as possible. I've decided keeping up with the calories and exercising/being more active will help me to do that. I want to lose weight and be healthy and at the same time enjoy my life along the way.

Oh, I almost forgot. I got my Berberine from Amazon. DH found it and we read the reviews and decided to go with it. It is from Vitamins Because Your Worth It Berberine HCI 900 mg. 180 capsules in blue bottle white label. However, the 900 mg is for 2 pills. We take 3 a day. I started out taking 4, but I cut back because the potty issues were too strong. I noticed those on the diabetic site take 400 mg 2 X a day so I might cut back to only 2 as long as it keeps working. From what I read, you don't see a big change in bs reading until you've been on it for 3 months. I haven't taken it for a month yet and I believe it is working because my numbers are about like they were when I started Trulicity. I need to order 2 more bottles myself.

We are going to Sam's Club later to get my Air Fryer. I'm looking forward to using it to make healthier meals.

Have a good day.