How did you find this out? I'm assuming that your milk was tested...where did you do that?

When you say it is hard to store, do you mean that your breasts don't store it, or it doesn't "keep" well in the fridge/freezer.

Originally Posted by ennay:
I have high lipase milk which isnt supposed to change from kid to kid, but it seemed worse with dd. Anyway all that means it has a lot of the enzyme that digests fat. One side effect is it is hard to store. The other is it is somewhat laxative. dd went 10-12 poops a day until she started solids and 3-4 times until she weaned. I had a friend who had to use formula because she was taking toxic meds and she got breastmilk from a bunch of us for her son and she would give him mine when he was stopped up and it worked like a charm.

mommacat - that actually doesn't sound like enough calories to me - they say to eat 500 more when you are BFing. Just a thought for you. I'm on WW and we do points and we get an additional 10 points per day for nursing.

cjc - you can find out if you have an oversupply issue just based upon the signs (green, frothy poops being one). One way to solve that is block feeding on one side at a time. That's what we do, but we initially started that b/c one nipple was way messed up (cracked and sore). When I noticed DD seemed more satisfied, I kept up that way. ;)

Originally Posted by cjc92802:
How did you find this out? I'm assuming that your milk was tested...where did you do that?

When you say it is hard to store, do you mean that your breasts don't store it, or it doesn't "keep" well in the fridge/freezer.

It was a combination of things that led my LC to diagnose it as high lipase, it didnt seem worth paying for a lab test as there wasnt anything I could do about it

But yes, with dd my milk would spoil in the fridge within 24 hours. And I mean SPOIL, nasty foul smelling.

We had a great deal of difficulty freezing it as well, quite often it would be spoiled when we thawed it and we were using a deep freeze.

We finally discovered that if we pumped and were very careful to not disturb the milk, fridged it until the fat layer separated, THEN froze it we could freeze it for short periods of time as long as we did a quick thaw and never let the fat layer remix until we were ready to use it (same with fridge storage)

The laxative effect. With just your own child it is hard to say because some kids are just poopier than others. But without fail whenever we gave my milk to the other baby, he pooped almost immediately.

I already knew I had an oversupply problem. No one believed me, because no one thought it was "possible" with twins. But my girls had the green bubbly poop, and I kept saying, "I don't think it's a GI virus, I don't think it's food intolerance." Finally I just did my own remedy for oversupply. It's not really even an oversupply issue as much as it is a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance. When there is too much foremilk (when you have a large supply) then the baby drinks mostly foremilk, which is higher in sugar (lactose) and lower in calories than the hindmilk. The baby gets full, but not satisfied since s/he got less fat. And the extra lactose ferments in the gut, causing the bubbles. They want to nurse again in a short amount of time, because nursing is comforting, moves the gas, and the baby is truly hungry because they didn't get enough calories. (They won't starve with an oversupply problem, but will be gassy and more fussy.)

Yes, you're right that the "solution" for oversupply is to only feed on one side at a time, and if that's not enough, for several times, before switching. It's highly effective. However, since I'm nursing twins, this isn't an option. :) I had to come up with my own solution, of forcing them to go longer. For 2 days, I had very hungry babies who wanted to nurse, so I wore them (one on front, one on back). I also pumped off the extra foremilk (about 5 ounces on EACH side BEFORE they nursed), and for the first time in weeks, my babies could nurse in peace, without gagging and getting gassy.

It was my fault, because I was nursing them every hour like I had been when they were both under 5 pounds....but they were huge nursing champs who could go 3-4 hours.

This is a very common problem - the majority of women produce more than enough milk for their baby. Pumping and giving bottles of EBM contributes to this. I'm glad that I trusted my instincts and addressed the problem before it went on any longer. My babies are happier and not pooping 14 times a day.

Originally Posted by jennylou:
cjc - you can find out if you have an oversupply issue just based upon the signs (green, frothy poops being one). One way to solve that is block feeding on one side at a time. That's what we do, but we initially started that b/c one nipple was way messed up (cracked and sore). When I noticed DD seemed more satisfied, I kept up that way. ;)

Ennay - I'm learning so much from you! I wonder if I have a similar issue because I noticed that my BM in the fridge was not fresh smelling. I don't usually pump, but had because of the reason above. Maybe that was the reason......thanks for the info. I'm also trying to up my calories to 2000-2200....finding it very hard to get enough when I'm not eating cruddy food. I also post on the calories counters because that's what I'm doing.

I don't feel so odd for having the supply issues that I have reading about all your oversupply issues. My body reacts to pumping WAY better than nursing. I have to pump every morning (which is fine because then we use a few oz for cereal the next morning and freeze the extra) or my supply takes a serious hit. If I eliminate this pumping session for only a couple days, I will find that I have to give Logan bottles at night.

Right now we are hitting the point where we HAVE to give him bottles though as my frozen stash in my standard freezer is reaching expiration as fast as we can give them to him. We only have about 6 more to go though and the rest of my stash is in the deep freeze. I have wanted a nice stash built up so in case we get pregnant (not preventing, open to life) and my supply doesn't do well, we can still give him milk at least part of the time, but of course I plan to keep nursing even if I do get pregnant... just preparing in case there is a problem.

Jenny, yeah, I am not trying to eat that little, but for a few days there that was all I ate. Most of the time I don't get to adding up my calories until late in the day or the next morning, but I try to keep a mental total in my head until I can enter it in my journal and get a true total. I made myself eat a snack before bed last night and I managed to get to almost 1700 calories. MUCH better!

carrie - most milk doesnt smell great, but if it smells way off it could be. Mine smelled exactly like cow's milk that is so far gone it pours out chunky- foul gagging smell. I dont have it as bad this time and I am not sure why, but I can get almost 3 days now. I still find I do best if I disturb the milk as little as possible, I store in the container I pump in and dont open it until I am ready to use it. If I close it tight while it is warm the it creates a bit of a vaccuum. If I open it to "check" if it is ok before I leave to go out, then 2 hours later it is starting to get "off". dh just had to learn to smell and taste. oh, and I sterilize everything like mad.

gah - today was definitely a "do as I say not as I do" moment

ds lunch - breast milk, brown rice, avocado, sweet potato

dd lunch - apple, milk, a few fries, a bit of hamburger (not hungry)

my lunch - cheeseburger, fries, diet coke. bleeergh

sigh....

These were my numbers for today. Been posting on Calorie Counters a lot. I'm afraid I'm not getting enough calories, even though I'm eating what I feel to be a healthy diet and eating until I feel satiated.

Today
Total: 1728
Fat: 51 (29%)
Carbs: 201 (42%)
Fiber: 34
Protein: 118 (30%)

BREAKFAST: coffee w/ 1/2 c. light soymilk, 3/4 c. oatmeal, 2T wheat germ, 1t brown sugar, 1/2 egg (split with Lela), 1/2 oz. turkey sausage, sprinke of Parmesan cheese
SNACK: Oops.........does folding diapers count?
LUNCH: salad with green leaf lettuce, apple, chicken, chickpeas, cukes, tomatoes, croutons, raisins, 1/2 c. lowfat yogurt
SNACK: homemade pasta salad = tuna, chickpeas, roasted red peppers, 1t mayo, 7 cinnamon sugar pecans
DINNER: wrap = whole wheat tortilla, 1/2 c. chicken, 3 dried apricots, 1/2 tomato, 1t mayo, 1 c. homemade stew, 1/2 c. lowfat yogurt

This is a typical day for me. Please tell me what you all think about this.....as fellow nursing mothers....again, I'm eating what I feel to be healthy and until I'm full. Except tonight, when I didn't want that stew and yogurt after eating the wrap.....I was only at 1525 and needed some extra calories.

My weekly average:

Average Calories 1785
Fat: 57 (30%)
Carbs: 230 (47%)
Fiber: 33
Protein: 97 (23%)

My only difference is that I'm nursing twins. My milk seems to be fine after this week, and my energy level has been great (relatively) because I've been exercising and eating well.

carrie - first, I wanted to comment on the folding diapers - you use cloth too? :) We're a CD household here as well. Second, as far as getting in extra calories, sometimes I have to add in healthy things for me, that are higher in cal/fat - things like avocado. Or, you can make a batch of oatmeal cookies and have a few of those as a treat in the evenings when you are lacking in cals. Best of all, it will also help your supply. :)

You might also just try eating more frequently.

My day goes like this:
breakfast is usually around 9:30. If it's earlier than that or if I'm going to eat lunch later than noon, I'll throw a snack in around 11. Okay, lunch. Snack around 3-4. Dinner around 7. Snack around 9. And then, I'll often snack again around 11 (if I still have points left!).

I try to sleep until 9 am, and our evenings go much later - it's rare to find me in bed until 1 am or later. DD doesn't go to be until 11 or so (and we try to get it earlier every night, she just seems to be a night owl like her daddy). The flip side is she sleeps in a bit later in the day. I'd be just as happy going to bed earlier and waking earlier, but whatever, it's clear I'm not the boss yet. ;)

as a nursing mom thing I would say you need more milk/calcium and a glass of milk is easy to squeeze in even if you aren't very hungry - I am bad about that though. Of course I am never not hungry

Nuts are also a good way to get calories. Apple with pb.

jennylou - Yes, we use cloth diapers, even on trips and in public. We have to wash A LOT with two babies. Incredibly our toddler decided to use the potty when the babies were 2 months old, so we only have a few of her diapers to wash, and we wash them all together. I love cloth!! :)

I usually get some type of nuts (almonds, pecans, cashews) about 5 days a week. I do eat frequently, and rather than eating 3 meals and 2-3 snacks, I usually have about 5 mini-meals per day and 1 snack before bed, eating every 2-3 hours. I try to eat about the same number of calories at each meal, so my blood sugar stays the same. (I had a very bad scare with what I guess was low blood sugar on Tuesday. I had only had 700 calories at 3pm (travelling and busy) and I started shaking.)

Today is payday :D so I will get to go grocery shopping! I will get some avacado, and maybe make some of the blackeyed pea patties that I love (avacado is awesome with them). As for fat though, I do pretty well - I use olive oil on my salads, a little butter to scramble eggs, and add flax oil to stuff.

We are early sleepers, early risers around here....though it's 8am and Laurel and Liv still are sleeping. Lela is having her oatmeal.

Ennay - Oh my goodness...you're totally right. My calcium is slacking, I hadn't even noticed. I will get some more yogurt and Ca-fortified soymilk. And I need to start taking my prenatal vitamins again. When I was pregnant, I would get muscle cramps if I hadn't taken them daily. That will get my Ca up, too. Apple w/ peanut butter sounds good.....maybe I'll get some almond butter too.

Okay, time to go make myself some breakfast....oatmeal, wheat germ and brown sugar....maybe a few Tbs of whole milk.

Thanks for the feedback......
Carrie

Ooh, do you have a recipe for those blackeyed pea patties?

Black Eyed Pea Patties
 

INGREDIENTS
1 (15 oz) can black-eyed peas, drained and rinsed OR about 2 cups cooked black-eyed peas
1 1/2 c. frozen corn kernals
1/2 T oil
1 t minced garlic
1 (4 oz.) can chopped mild green chilies
1/4 t. cumin
1/4 c. chopped onions
1 T dried cilantro
1/2 t. salt
1/2 c. breadcrumbs
1/2 c. flour

Makes 4 thick burgers or 8 thin patties

Heat oil in skillet over medium-high heat, and add garlic, chilies and cumin. Saute about 2 minutes.

Add onion and corn, reduce heat to medium and saute until onions are very transluscent and corn is thawed.

Place in bowl with peas and mash with imersion blender, until some of ingredients are mashed and there are some larger pieces. (Don't mash it too much, in other words)

Let cool and add bread crumbs. Stir.

Add flour and then form into patties of desired thickness.

Heat skillet on medium heat, add oil.

Cook on one side until golden brown, and then flip to other side, adding more oil as needed.

Serve on a bun, roll or in a wrap. Good with lettuce, tomatoes and avacado slices. Or salsa, guacomole and cheese.

Okay, this is the recipe that I have, but I do it a little differently. I use blackeyed peas from the dried beans to cut down on salt and save $. I don't add the green chilies because I never have them. I add a little more cumin, and I put some fresh cilantro in at the end of cooking if I have it. I don't add salt. I don't have an imersion blender, so I just pulse mine in a food processor until I get it to the consistency that I like (a little on the chunky side, but still mushy.)

I like mine to be thin, so I use less breadcrumbs and flour and they don't dry out in the pan. Thin patties are a little more crisp in the pan. Of course, if you wanted them to be more like a burger, then add more breadcrumbs and make it thicker. If you want to freeze them, it is easy to do so BEFORE cooking them. Stack them between pieces of waxed paper. If you do them thin, then you don't even have to thaw them before you cook them, just toss in the pan.

I serve mine in a wrap with lettuce, tomatoes and avacado. I may drizzle the patty with a little flax oil for some EFAs. MMMMMMMM!!!! Tasty and healthy....vegan too.

Sounds great, thanks! :D I'm always looking for a good bean burger recipe. We love the ones at Chili's, but they now make them with a lot of soy.

yum..the best part about making your own baby food is the leftovers. I usually wont start a new ice cube tray if there is only a little bit left. I dont know why I never puree squash that fine for me...so yummy (of course for MINE I added salt and butter and cinnamon) and warm pear-sauce is way better than applesauce