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Old 06-06-2014, 01:13 PM   #16  
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Here is the video Pattience refers to.


And let me just say, WOW.
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Old 06-06-2014, 01:27 PM   #17  
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Methinks that might have been a rhetorical question with an obvious answer. Many women (let's remember: 1 in 4) who have been assaulted carry, for a time if not throughout their lives, an understandable anger toward men. It's not just a simple matter of blaming all men for the actions of one, it's more complicated than that. The anger feels justifiably transferable to the larger population for many reasons, rampant victim blaming, refusal by many to acknowledge/address the issue because it makes them uncomfortable, is deemed "negative", or they simply don't believe the prodigious degree of frequency with which these things occur, the laissez faire attitude towards rape in many comedy skits and movies, street harassment, the list goes on...

Last edited by Lecomtes; 06-06-2014 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 06-06-2014, 01:53 PM   #18  
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A powerful video indeed Mrs Snark. In my hometown street harassment is not common, but I have been witness and recipient of it in NYC and Paris. I think the high concentrations of people in the large cities make it a more daily annoyance (and sometimes danger) for the women who live there.
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Old 06-06-2014, 02:00 PM   #19  
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I'm not sure many men where I'm from would tolerate that sort of behavior from another man towards any woman, irregardless of how she's dressed. I know I would not.
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Old 06-06-2014, 03:33 PM   #20  
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I have no problem with it, just keep walking. I do not give attention to the behavior. Where I live I guess we are a little more outspoken it happens, sometime it is quite sweet what they say or funny, it is never mean.

I make a distinction between sexual predator and the man that pass a little comment of appreciation. I will even say walking behind a man saying nice.........

True a lot of woman suffered from assault, I did as a teenager, got to realise that I have hatred for one man only my attacker. He was not showing flirting behavior he was showing pure rage and wanted to kill.
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Old 06-06-2014, 04:06 PM   #21  
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In regard to that video - it goes directly with what I said - the type of men - their upbringing. If people aren't brought up to respect others, they won't. Even in the video it said it was only certain quarters that were like that - not representative of all Brussels. Of course, it shouldn't be like that anywhere.... but it's not ALL people/men.
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Old 06-06-2014, 06:59 PM   #22  
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Originally Posted by Arctic Mama View Post
It's not Alaska, it's the people I associate with - Christ is the difference, not culture.

Out and about over the years I've had the occasional moo or catcall - but that isn't sexism or discrimination, it's one person being an idiot. Conflating every rude behavior with something as serious as true sexual harassment, where someone is threatened with violence against their person? The former doesn't affect my self perception, my value, or womanhood, and it doesn't have a bearing on my conduct. I'm no victim and won't claim it for something as silly and little as someone else lacking a filter - that diminishes the severity and impact of a true claim to personal injury from the actions of another.

Quite frankly every man I'm around regularly is respectful and honorable - they know they answer to God for the thoughts of their hearts and words of their mouths and that has a restraining effect on someone like no social convention can mimic.
Why isn't it sexism? We live in a society where by far (that does not mean everyone but it is alot of people) people think that it is ok to treat another person in that way- as sexual objects rather then people.

It is why we blame the victim of abuse & rape. Why football players can rape a teenage girl and then people make comments about how sad it is that the players lifes have to be ruined now.... how if you are raped people want to know what you were wearing, and omg you were outside alone, or alone in his home? How dare you do such a thing!

One of my favorite things right now is actually a "joke" by Louis CK:

Or the thing going around saying that men are afraid a woman will laugh at him, a woman is afraid the man will beat/rape her. Did you see the video where a woman turned down a man in some fastfood place and so him & his friends beat her?

cat calls are no big deal? They can be scary as ****. I have walked down the street and had some very scary things said to me. I have also can not remember the amount of times I have had men pull over and offer me rides. If I pull over and offer a guy a ride, there is a very slim chance that he is going to think I am going to rape & kill him. There is a huge blinking warning in my mind that will happen to me. If my car has a flat tire and someone pulls over to help me... why do I have to worry?

It isn't about men being evil (they are not all, I would say the majority by far are not). It is that society is far too accepting that this is not a problem. That we are dismissive & teach women how not to be raped instead of teaching people not to rape.

The majority of women will experience some type of violence, abuse, rape, etc... That is scary as ****!

I am a rape survivor. So it does hit home a bit with me
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Old 07-06-2014, 12:08 PM   #23  
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I just stumbled on this discussion (really, I usually just hang out in the surgery forum) and wanted to share this link - great food for thought.

I've been very thin, and I've weighed more than 500 pounds. It's easier to hide in public at 500 pounds. When I was younger and thin, I was followed, cat called, insulted, grabbed, and worse.

Now that I'm older, I've joined the ranks of invisible women, and it's MUCH easier for me to move in public spaces without being insulted or grabbed. It's actually kind of nice. But it's very very sad that women don't have the privilege of feeling remotely safe until they're in their late 50s or 60s.

And I'm still aware of my surroundings and who's around. Assault of any type isn't always about sexual aggression. It's about exerting power and control, and that puts ANYONE in the line of fire.
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Old 07-06-2014, 01:03 PM   #24  
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Sort of related to the discussion so I'll add it:

If you HAVE to lose weight to get attention from men (and by that I mean lets say you are fat and you never get male attention, and then you lose weight and suddenly you do) it feels really bad. It says "You weren't good enough before, but now because of this 1 physical thing you are." It makes a woman feel like her worth is balanced on the number on the scale. It's painful. It is dehumanizing.

My opinion of course.
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Old 07-07-2014, 02:48 PM   #25  
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When I was thin, I was raped. God had nothing to do with it because the boy who raped me was a Christian. No offense, but being a Christian doesn't automatically make you a good person, just as being a Christian doesn't automatically make you a bad person either. Every group, and I mean EVERY group has good people and bad people. Atheists, Christians, Muslims, Jews, African-Americans, Men, Women, Whites, Hispanics on and on and on. I'm glad you've never experienced sexism, because every woman I personally know has.
Not just cat calling.

My sister was raped violently in her dorm room her freshman year. Her dorm mates put "Whore" and "Slut" on her bedroom door after they learned that the guy who did it was someone else's crush. My sister was attacked on her way home from a party one night, it was considered her fault by her "friends" and herself for a while that a man dragged her down and tore her shirt off because she was alone at night and tipsy. (Thankfully her screams brought on another GOOD man walking his dog to save her from that). Gaining weight, her problems with these actions have become less and less yet she still deals with jerk faces. Just the other day she had a guy "blow on her neck" in an obvious way and then relished when she yelled at him, then preceded to do it more. The Bus driver said they could BOTH get off the bus. (Because that's what you want, the creepy guy invading your space getting off with you at a random stop in the middle of the night).

When I was thin, I was molested on several occasions on a bus. My breasts were grabbed and groped, my *** was pinched and slapped. I never stood up for myself because there is that surreal "is this really happening" moment that you go through. You then go home feeling guilty. GUILTY as if it's your fault somehow that some sicko had to grab you.

My friend was literally told that "women just aren't good for management" when she applied for a management position in her company. HR dismissed the claim, and at this point it's like "prove it." I know the man that said it, and I know he has stated that women in America are way too into their "Equality." Like, what is that suppose to mean exactly?

NOT ALL MEN are *** hats. My Fiance is awesome sauce. Not all women are angels either. Every group, and I mean EVERY group, has good people and bad people. Yes, when I was thin, I dealt with more sexism and molestation then when I gained weight. However, being Fat, I also deal with discrimination and cruel behavior. I feel like it's a lose lose, so now I carry a tazer and have decided my health means more. I also will no longer EVER ride a bus.

Not to mention the #yesallwomen hash tag doesn't mean that EVERY WOMAN has been raped. I'm glad in your little world you haven't had to deal with it, but I do hope you realize that the vast majority of women have had to deal with sexual harassment, discrimination, rape, molestation, "glass ceiling," and the like. I won't dismiss someone else's proven problems simply because I dont' have to deal with it and personally haven't witnessed it. That's like claiming that there is no such thing as starvation in Africa because you personally haven't had to starve before and when you visited the tour destination areas you didn't see and of the starving kids.

Some women have it worse than others, the idea of the movement is to make people realize that society often views women as objects. Breast feeding is torn down, strong women are called "*****es," or "nags," Women's rights to their bodies is attacked, women's sexuality is some demoralizing sin, ****, men often don't even win in court for custody of their own children due to the fact that society perceives women as "mothers" only. Really? If I were a man I would be offended that women have to change their dress code because so many people think men are some out of control lunatics that can't control their own libido. It's sad, because so many men realize this is a pathetic excuse to attack someone, and yet other men act like it's just "boys will be boys." As men, aren't you offended?

I hope that one day, when I apply for a job, there is no "check box" for if I'm a male or female. Just "Are you qualified for this position." I one day hope that when custody battles go to trial, the person with the vagina isn't automatically a shoe in, but the court looks at BOTH parents and tries to decide what's best for the kid, regardless if it's a male or female parent. I hope that one day, when a someone is raped, they can come forward and demand justice for the crime that was done against them and expect to be taken seriously. Regardless if it was a male or female raped. People should not feel shame for reporting a crime, and shouldn't be shamed because of it.

We're living in a society where an outlook as a national total one one portion of the population, is having negative effects on BOTH portions of the population. I want equality on all matters. The only time any gender should take effect is what type of check up are you getting today and what birth control method you have available to you personally.
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Old 07-07-2014, 03:12 PM   #26  
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Oh, and "Cat calling" isn't just some men whistling at a pretty girl and telling her a compliment. When women refer to cat calling as harrasment, we mean we felt FEAR because of something men said. Or we felt gross, intimidated, etc. It's not just some "jerk" saying something to someone. It's a power play in a lot of instances. If a guy I don't know tells me I look lovely, I don't automatically think I'm being victimized, and I'm sure most women wouldn't. If a guy pulls his car up next to me and continues to say things to me when I clearly want to be left alone, that is harassment, and it can be terrifying. I should be aloud to walk home and not be scared of some guy pulling over and getting out his car to grab me, yes this has happened to me before. My fiance gave me a taser, I zapped it at him and it got him away from me. I was SO close to becoming one of those missing person posters, all because I was ignoring his "oh so harmless" cat calls from his car, he decided to demand my attention.

When women are upset about cat calls, we aren't upset about a gentlemen paying us a comment to our face in a considerate way, we're upset about the guys that demand your attention in inappropriate, dehumanizing ways (like waggling a tongue between their fingers).
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Old 07-07-2014, 03:18 PM   #27  
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This is such an interesting discussion.

I was assaulted/attempted rape when I was in my 20s by a stranger who dragged me off the street into the bushes. Perhaps coincidentally, perhaps not, I was the thinnest I've ever been in my adult life at that time. Fortunately for me, I happen ed to be very strong and athletic and I am 5'8". Also fortunately for me, my attacker had no weapon. I was able to fight him off. I was well aware at the time that had he attacked either of my two housemates, who were smaller and not as strong as me, he would have gotten his way.

Did he attack me because I was thin? I'll never know. Did I gain weight afterwards to fend off male attention? Certainly not consciously, but I did start to put on some weight after that. (I didn't become morbidly obese until after my first child)

In my normal day-to-day life I'm surrounded by respectful and courteous people who do not harass women. My husband is a feminist and would NEVER do anything like that.

But, I do respectfully disagree with the notion that you can avoid being assaulted/raped/or catcalled just by associating with the "right" people, or by associating with only people with a certain religious or ethnic affiliation.

First off, there are bad people in all groups. Second, how does one live life in a bubble never getting near anyone who might molest or assault or rape?

My first experience with sexual assault was in seventh grade when boys used to talk about my big boobs. Occasionally, on a dare, one would run up to me in the hall, grab one, and yell "honk, honk." I was deeply mortified and it never even occurred to me to report it to anyone. In the seventies, "sexual harassment" didn't even have a name yet. I am very glad that I was able to tell my daughters that if anyone ever tried to touch them like that they did not have to put up with it.

It may sound like harmless childplay-- but it doesn't feel like that for the recipient. Instead of being proud of my tall, strong, shapely body, I was ashamed of it and I walked around with hunched shoulders and arms crossed to try to avoid catching the attention of the "honkers". Did that make me develop an eating disorder in my teens and eventually become obese? I don't know and it doesn't really matter, but I do strongly believe that it is important to admit that these behaviors exist even among "nice" people and that it is good to shine a light on them.
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Old 07-07-2014, 03:59 PM   #28  
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Another simple answer that people have missed because of the (totally valid!) discussion of harassment and threat: some women don't want men's attention on their bodies because they aren't interested in men.

I do occasionally date, but I consider myself asexual: I'm not attracted to men or women either. When I do choose to date, it's pretty rare and it's because I have a serious intellectual interest in that person. I'm not interested in the type of people who would be eying my body without knowing anything about me.

Other women may be lesbians, or just not interested in dating at all, or not dating right now because of a trauma or a recent break-up, or may be in a relationship with someone already, all of which make attention from men unwanted, even if the man is being nice and non-threatening about it.

And if it happens once or twice, the woman may take it as a nice compliment, but when you have it happening to you over and over again, it becomes less complimentary and more frustrating that you have to deal with it.

Personally, I'm losing weight just as a longer-term goal of being in shape for my health and then learning to kick some serious ***, because that's who I want myself to be!
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:51 PM   #29  
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There is another side to all this that seems to be hidden.
That is, some men, especially the older ones, may subconsciously prefer to be obese to avoid attraction from women.
They may do this to avoid future possible embarrassment due to impotence of one form or another.
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:07 AM   #30  
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Pardon me for saying so but I think now would be a good time to step back and differentiate topics. When we talk about things like rape culture and sexism what we are talking about is about "power". Sometimes it comes in the form of unwanted sexual advances sometimes it comes in the form or bullying or discrimination. But ultimately it is all about power. People who need power will find a way to get it. Education has a lot to do with it actually.

I think the OP is more addressing how women feel about men judging their bodies based on their weight and how that effects your self-esteem and sexuality. Let's be honest, men, you do it. You judge. If you read around you can see very few posters who say their spouses treat them the same no matter what weight they are. That is a rare man and quite a gift. I have not been blessed with such a husband, nor have most women, in my experience. Most women's husbands won't say anything but you know from the comments they make what they really think. And you get the "special treatment " of being different from those other fat ladies because your husband loves you. And if you are single it can be that much worse. Men might be polite to you but will they ask you out on a date if you are not thin or if they are not fat?
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