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Old 07-27-2002, 05:06 PM   #1
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Default Sue's Totally Off topic and HUGE FRUSTERATED VENT FOR FAMILY STUFF!!!

Sue’s story!

Well it all started a long time ago. Yes I have a daughter that has learned to run the house with refusing to do anything, and refusing to go to school and many other things. In all honesty what had happened was that she got tangled with the wrong crowd, she did some skin carvings with this group of friends and decided to not go to school for about 2 days of the week even with threats, not going any place and not having TV and well I understood the reasons, she had no friends and did not like the school. Not the learning thing but the fact that they spend over half the time telling everyone to stop and shut up. I understand that so this year she decided that she was not going to school, in Feb. (note please that the month before her boyfriend was started on home schooling too.) Well after April break Mike came to stay with us as he was not going to continue schooling at home as it was going to take too long to finish, and he lived to far out in the country to get a job he can get to daily. Not to mention that he was being verbally abused and occasionally physically by his step dad. So he came to live in our closet. (Yes I said the closet) it is big enough for a bed, and has bunches of shelves. It was on the condition that Tam still continues with school. They still claim celibacy even though he has been here for 4 months. And he looks for a job. Well he looked for the job but that was all he did was look. And I mean all he did. (Gee can you understand why the house went to **** and my focus went that way too?) So went the diet too and I had gotten down to my all time low. UGH!!! So now Tam stops all schooling even with multiple reminders so now I tell her that she needs to start to get a job as she is not going to school nor doing her schooling. She looks and that again is an operative word. LOOKS so now it is June. Dd gets angry at mike and throws him out. Life starts to get to a controllable level and I start to regain control over my house but finances of feeding so many are shot so goes my resolve.

But here is the trick and the not so fun part. My DD when provoked tends to clam up you tell her what you expect and how you feel then leave her alone. Let her soak it in and then she gets better and listens to what you say and can talk with her. If you do not do this she rebels harder and does things that are regrettable. Well mike can not take this into his head so he just keeps pushing and gets hurtful and says mean thing to her and well you get the picture things can get very nasty here. I try to tell mike best how to talk with her but he will not listen he says I have to fight back. And say things that are mean. SO what do you expect, Tam then says things that are very upsetting for anyone to hear. Like things regarding suicide. I know that this is said to get him as she has had huge fights with me and that has never been part of our fight and this is on his benefit as he responds to that. What she does not understand is that can end up with her in the mental ward! So last night when they started arguing that was no exception. The threats were made and of course Mike was pushing and well I really was not sure how hard he was pushing and how hard she was going with it. I was totally beside my self. She physically attacked him as well. I do not know where she gets it from neither me nor my DH is physical like that. I will yell but need to be really pushed to do that (stressed). So to make a long story short I was on line and jiff was going to get the brunt of my frustration. I know the kids are just that they do not know how to control their emotions and she does not know how to behave with a relationship. She expects it all her way. What she wants is what she expects. He is the same way but will give in to her most of the time and that is not right. They are too young to have this kind of relationship. They have neither control nor idea what to expect. I just have been so frustrated. I told mike that he needs to keep separated from Tam, and told his friends to not let him get back together with her. (She will be the one that makes the first move) I called his mom and had the same conversation with her. She is of the same feeling I am. Keep separated!!

Now you all can understand why I am fighting to NOT go back to work. I am needed home to keep an eye on her and try to keep some semblance of sanity in this house!! So now finances are shi*. My family is falling apart. The other 3 are ok but still handfuls. And I am expected to cook clean keep the kids going do all the shopping laundry and put it away. Maintain my sanity and do everything DH wants. And now work full time????

VENT VENT VENT VENT Did I say it enough??

I am frustrated to all ends!! I still pray that life will get smoother soon. (With out mike.) that the kid (tam) gets her act together and decided to do something with her life.
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Old 07-27-2002, 05:31 PM   #2
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Sue,
I am so sorry life is so out of control. I am sure it is worse than you let on to. Please know that I am thinking about you.
I have no solution for you, It sounds like it is very disruptive for all of you.
I am thinking of you and I too hope you can gain control. You are a very strong woman with the strength and resources (all your friends @ 3fc)

Be well, and take a deep breath we are all behind you.

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Old 07-27-2002, 06:37 PM   #3
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thanks L I do appreciate it. I know that to send Dd away would be best but I know that she will not go. (very stubborn) I would like to have her start college in the fall atleast af ew classes to not only meet new guys but to gain confidence that she has none. She will need to get her GED but she can not do that untilli enroll her in some classes. I think that would be an answer to much of this problem. I know that to keep mike and tam apart is going to be something that i have no control but can certainly encourage. I have a waitressing job for Dd all lined up and will find out on monday if he does need her (the bike ride guy) he runs an Italian restraunt. It should start soon. that to would get her mind on somethng other than Mike and how to get him back and what is she going to do with her life with out mike.

I feel that things have been opened up with him out of the house. and I know that I will not let him back as there is too mcuh conflict when they get going which is about every other day. But the biggest things happen when he spends time with his friends. (like I said she needs to grow up and control her emotions) They are only 17 and they each needs to be spending time twith other people that just each ohter. I know that if i spent all my time with DH even now with us being married iwould have killed him long ago. and she does not realise that. but cam MOM tell her?? No MOM knows nothing!! not only that but if I start to talk to her about anythig like that she tunes me right out. and takes off. I can only hope and pray that she start to see the light.

As for me I feel like things are getting clearer all the time. I stand by and know that their relationship is not good as they are too young but there is nothing I can do but to watch and try to pick up the pieces. I just pray that the job works and that it helps her to have cash to spend on clothes, movies with her friends and that she meets some guy that can help her have a normal relationship.

so as for me I am just gliding by. hoping and praying and trying to clean up the mess. I come here as this is a tremendous source of strenght for me. and with out this stability here I would really go nuts!!
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Old 07-27-2002, 07:03 PM   #4
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Sue.......HUGS

I have nothing that will make you feel at all better...... all I can give you is the knowledge that there are ears, eyes and shoulders here for you to lean on......

The old saying "this, too, shall pass" is true - as hard as it might be sometimes to really believe it, it is true...... Teenage daughters can be soooooo difficult . I learned how very stupid I was, as soon as my older daughter turned 12 (she ws a precocious thing!!).... and you know what, my "baby" is now 27 and I have barely gotten smarter!!! (or at least - that is how I am treated often!) I am constantly amazed that I am able to tie my own shoes without their help

We did have a bad situation with dd1 and a bf..... it was truly awful - suicide watch and all. For 6 months I was afraid to ever leave her alone..... in fact, I made her come to work with me (fortunately, I had my own CPA practice at the time) and I would work only 3 or 4 hours per day, she couldn't function enough to even attend her classes ...... at night, after falling asleep, and being asleep for maybe 1 hour, I would wake up to find her lying across the foot of my bed, crying her eyes out........ It was a truly terrible time. The only thing I can say is that it did eventually end - she met Joey (whom I call the world's best soninlaw!!!) and now has a wonderful marriage...... but the getting there was rough.

More hugs and prayers from here to you (and her, too!) - hopefully the job will work out and she will start to look around her...... Remember, you've always got a shoulder to lean on, for whatever it's worth., so vent all you need to.
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Old 07-27-2002, 07:10 PM   #5
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Sue
I sent you a pm but sam's Gma said things a lot better than I could have.
-L
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Old 07-27-2002, 08:00 PM   #6
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Default SUE!

Tons of hugs and prayers for you all!

I have no kids so I can only fear them from a distrance- my friends' kids are just hitting their stride of showing us how horrible they can be(15 and testing limits everyday, poor judgement, depressed and can't accept affection or comforting).

I think that is the hardest part for my friends (both my best friends have 3 boys!). that the kids won't let them comfort or "mommy' them any more. Just storm around and walk out of the house and go down in the basement and come up for money and food! All teenagers, all difficult.

We are here!

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Old 07-27-2002, 08:10 PM   #7
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OH Sue! I wish you were here or I was there and I would give you the biggest hug in the world! I have no advice when it comes to handling teenage daughters since my wee one is but 3 years old, but I do have some advice from a natural born headstrong teen (and now woman). I found that at that time of my life, I truly felt that I was the one that knew everything and regardless of how ANYONE felt, I was going to do it my way. I have to say, I was rough on my mom as I'm sure she had her heart in her mouth with some of the decisions I was making. I think what you're doing now is the way to go--guide her as best you can but ultimately, you have to step away as she is getting to be grown and needs to make her own mistakes. Remember when they were small? It wasn't enough to tell them the stove was hot, they had to find out for themselves? The same experience is true for teenagers, for better or worse, they have to feel the effects of bad decision-making. Hard on us parents to stand by and watch, but it is an ever valuable lesson learned for them. I think now my mom appreciates the woman I have become since she decided to step aside and let me do things my own way for rightly or wrongly. I know now that I am a much more confident person for having come through some rough years and better able to handle what life dishes out. Whatever you decide to do is what ultimately is best for your family--just remember we all love and care for you here so just remember those cyber hugs are all ready for you!
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Old 07-27-2002, 08:12 PM   #8
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[[[[[[[[[[[[[[sue]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

i'm speechless!!!!
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Old 07-27-2002, 09:11 PM   #9
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Sue, I don't know how much help I can be. Only you know the true situation and somehow you'll find the strength to get through it. I had to. Our older daughter was a real handful and sometimes it was hard for me to remember that this was the sweetest little girl who ever lived and that little girl was still hiding somewhere inside of that crazy, out of control teenager. Man, did she ever do some dumb stuff and even got thrown in jail for a few days, but that's a long story. It got to the point where we just had to let her make her own decisions and her own mistakes. Every time we tried to do something to help her, she would somehow manage to sabotage it whether it was a job or upgrading her schooling. Then, inevitably, pregnancy at 17. I could have throttled her barehanded. No kidding. Well, now that baby is 18, kicked out of school, working in a painting factory and making his own dumb choices. Most recently he was at a party and a so-called "friend" stole his wallet with every cent he had. The ninny had cashed his paycheck and the birthday check we'd given him and had it all in his wallet...probably bragging about how rich he was too. Dumb dumb DUMB! They truly are not human beings at that age, Sue. Hormones and social pressures have made them aliens.
To be perfectly honest though, the smartest thing I ever did which helped me survive that terrible time was getting a job and going back to work. I'd been a stay at home, work from home Mom for years but getting out of the house and among sane, reasonable adults for most of the day and being forced to think about something besides my family troubles, helped me get through all the turmoil at home. My DH wasn't any more understanding with our daughter than yours is. He was always laying down the law and then he'd have to go out of town to work and I'd be left trying to enforce his rules. Forget it! One time he totally lost it with her and resorted to violence which isn't like him at all. That just goes to show you how this girl had destroyed our home life. Then she reported him to social services and he had to go to court. Do you think he has ever really forgiven her for putting him through that humiliating experience? He loves her still and we have helped her and her hubby and kids a lot financially and we get together, but the father/daughter feelings have never been the same between them. She has tried desperately over the years to make amends but he is a hard-headed German and just can't soften his stance. Now he's giving the same cold treatment to #1 grandson because the boy didn't try to get back into school after being expelled. I just shake my head and tell them that I have tried my best to sway him but he's always thought his way was the only way. He's a wonderful husband and was a good father, but he really hasn't a clue most of the time. LOL
Your daughter is going to do exactly what she wants no matter what you say or do. You have to get that through your head. Nothing you say or do is going to make one bit of difference. I know this for a fact because I talked myself blue in the face trying to reason with our daughter and she would smile and nod and hug me when I bawled, but then she would go off and do the same stoopid things, like hitchhiking to a distant city and shopliftomg to stay alive. Or she'd get a job and after the first few days she'd figure she was the boss and get fired for being mouthy. We even got her into a special school that used rewards for good behaviour and attendance and she lasted 3 months. We paid for her to go to the local college to get her Grade 12 and even paid for her to live on campus but that's when she got pregnant and quit that too. Nothing we said to her had any effect until she'd had her baby. Then, suddenly, she matured and wanted to make something of herself. We paid for a daycare. We paid for her to go to hairdressing school and we helped with her rent. This time, she stuck it out and got her licence and a job. Then she met a great fellow who wanted both her and her little boy and she married and had another baby boy. She's a terrific person, a hard worker, and a great mother (even though her kids are putting her through the tortures of the damned). WHat goes around comes around, Sue. This too shall pass. What you have to do is focus on your OWN sanity. Get out of the house. Make the rest of the family pick up the slack as far as housework goes or just let it slide. You can't be in two places at once and if your DH wants the extra income from you working, he will darn will have to help around the house. Put your foot down. Trust me, you think you can't leave them to get a job but really you CAN. It would be the best therapy in the world for you and when your daughter sees that she's not the main focus of your life, maybe she'll start to appreciate your attention when she does get it.
You can't force her to get a job or go to school but at 17 she's old enough to be on her own and to be responsible for her own actions. You have to tell her she either goes to school or pays rent but you don't allow any freeloaders in your home. Case closed. It's called tough love and it works. You think it's mean and will ruin your relationship forever but it really will only help it. She works or she goes to school. No third choices.
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Old 07-27-2002, 09:21 PM   #10
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Girls thanks for your wonderful shoulders. this is difficult but like Pooky said there is nothing I can do but stand by and hope. For a while as she was clustered in her room and not showing any signs of life I actually was thinking that she would have done the unspeakable, just to show him. But she does have a strong urge of self preservation. I would every once in a while have a reason to ask her some thing or see if ay one else in the house had seen her. Last night was the worse, as though I said she was making noises of ending her life what I did not tell you was that she had been sitting in the tub fully clothed with appliences near her. I knew approachig her at that time was not the way to go. as she was just asking for validation of her anger and it was directed to Mike, wanting him to beg and plead with her. He almost called 911. But like I said it was directed at him for leaving when she told him to go. (she is the one that needs to find some control over her emotions and feelings) I just sat in the house looking for any signs of power surges. how horrible to think that the kid would do that just to spite her boyfriend!! I told him to just leave she will be ok. He did and gave me a big hug and cried. he said he will miss me, and I am part of the reason that this is so hard. I like the kid. he has a huge heart, but he is just that a kid!1 and he needs to grow up a lot before he can do a relationship like that. too.

I iwll say that I just talked to her. believe it or not some one called for Mike and did not know how to get ahold of him. I asked Tam if she knew the number at where he was (Unlisted) but she did notknow but did try to find it. So I know she is comming out of it. It may be a few more days before we get back to "normal" but how to go from there I am cluless. Like Pooky said Iknow she will not accept anything from me as far as advice. I ca only sneak things in. and hope she hears.

the last one did not work. all 3 of us werre watching a show where the man said the woman was mine and all mine. I said what a bunch of BS that was. nobody ownes anybody. Each person has to be an individual and alowed to do their own thing at times. it is an unhealthy relationship when you do not allow the other person the chance to spend time with other people. Obviously she did not hear that one. OH well one can try.

Thanks guys for beng here.

Linda your words are the same that echho in my heart. I have had concerned that she will come home pregnant. I just this month found out that she had an appt with the clinic here and I told her that I was glad. (she did this on my urging for her very strong TOM) I also told her that if she and Mike decided to do it they would atleast be protected. as she know neither she nor mike can raise a kid and i can not do it either. So hopefully that is covered.

The need to stay home extends to the other 3 kids that I have more. as Tam is out of my control. I have used her since she was younger for child care and now I have been trying very hard to relieve her of that responsibility. She is too emotional and moody to care for the kids with effectiveness.(which i will need child care when I am working) she makes no bones that she hates DD2 and is workign n destroying DS1's frail emotional state. playing that DS2 is her favorite letting him play a game then telling the others that they can not. DD2 is almost responsible to babysit but she is still too absent minded and frankly I do not trust her.

I know the plot gets more twisted as it comes out. I know this is a teen thing but frankly I have had it with the teen thing! but I have just started I have 3 more to go!! and I am already coloring my hair!!
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Old 07-28-2002, 10:24 AM   #11
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Hiya Sue, I hope things are calmed down this morning. I hope you can try to crawl out from under this emotional roller coaster you're in, I feel so bad for you. I really like Linda's advice, going back to work may very well be the thing you need to get your life back. And finding good reliable babysitters for your kids. I can tell how much you love your daughter and that the whole situation is eating you alive. Words from us to say let her find her own way are easy to type and much harder to put in practice when you care so much. Maybe it's time for you you to investigate for yourself what it is that you really want for yourself and then talk to your daughter about the expextations you have for her. And if she's threatening suicide, perhaps it's time she go to see a doctor or some therapist since this behaviour is extrememly dangerous. Perhaps she doesn't see that she has an effect on people with what she says? Teenagers tend to be myopic (I certainly was) until a situation arises that they have to come out of themselves. I am hoping for the very best for you Sue, I hope things settle down and you get through this very hard and trying time. (((HUGS)))
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Old 07-28-2002, 11:50 AM   #12
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Wow
Your life is like a soap opera hang in there it will get better.
My granddaughtes are in their 20's and live 350 miles from me so i only get to see the good side of them . My oldest one is 28 divorced with a 8 year old daughter he ex keeps the girl when she joined the reserves and had to take training for 3 months she is doing well now although it took her 28 years to come to her senses.
All in all I wish I could give you some advice like the other ladies have Just hang in there and pray a lot help will come.
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Old 07-28-2002, 11:55 AM   #13
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I remember those teenage years, and am glad I survived and so did the kids. But I agree with Pookie, a mention of suicide is a cry for help. Don't ever think they won't do it. Teens have absolutely no concept of death. RUN and get her help. Maybe a pastor, teacher or family friend can talk to her. But I think she needs someone to talk to and quickly.
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Old 07-28-2002, 12:39 PM   #14
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I totally agree that the need for much professional help as quickly as possible is necessary, for both you and your husband and your daughter (probably the siblings too as a family problem like this effects everyone) Many a teen has died by their own hand who 'didn't really mean it'.

Sue, I think it is great that you vent here and get loving support from your LC buddies but this sounds like a really serious family problem that is totally beyond the scope of what can be helped by advise from a message board. Please, please get some help for you all - you have 3 other children coming up that have witnessed this all and if you don't want to live this over and over again, you need to seek professional help. Parents losing control of their households is not a healthy enviroment in which to raise children to be giving, loving, sucessful members of society.

Hug and prayers being send your way.

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Old 07-28-2002, 04:17 PM   #15
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I am in agreement with all of you for the need for pro help. She has some great friends even if she has ignored them during her "time with Mike" they shoed up here today and refused toleave till she went out with them she has been "out for a few hours now and having a good time. I had to go and and saw them walking around and she was smiling. I need for her to know what kind of impact this has on everything and everyone. and that it is not acceptable to "threaten" like that. I have a good talk planed for her including the option to seek pro help.
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