Gap Corp runs big and kind of weird. What I find difficult is not just the vanity sizing but the "shape" sizing. Most clothing i find is made for apples and pears. As a person with a pretty "perfect" hourglass, I am constantly on the hunt for pants that fit my heinie yet aren't bagging in the waist. (Doesn't exist unless I go down a size and get the stretch, which looks bad to me.) At my current weight I have clothes ranging from 14 to 6 and they all fit. I have some banana republic pants in an 8 that fit better than a pair (from the same store) in a 14!!! I swim in LB 14, yet a 14 in some stores are gut busting tight. I can't get into anything at A&F or Hollister, even though I have some levi stretch bootcuts that are a six. It's all weird.

I have a friend who's an inch taller and weighs about twenty pound less who doesn't understand why I wear a much smaller size than she. She has smaller boobs and hips, but a larger stomach. It seems rather straightforward to me.

My son, who is 5, wears a size 5. I was trying to explain to him the other day that some 5-year olds might wear a size 4 and others might wear a size 6, and also that some of his 5's are too small for him and others are too big. He "got" it, but it took a while because in his world, age=size.

That got me thinking: wouldn't it be bizarre if women's clothes were sized the same way? Moving up to a size 21 would be a major milestone. I'd be a size 39, but the majority of the adult population would be over a size 45... :)

Kim

Size 52? :yikes:

Size 43, soon to be 44? :yikes:

Oh man, I remember back in the day when I thought age was size, too! I was kind of tall in kindergarten, so I had my school uniform (went to Catholic school) in a size "6". I actually asked my mom if that meant I was fat, because if I was too big for a 5, then maybe I should be concerned! I had complexes even back THEN! :lol:

Size 21! :D

Size 34!!! Does anyone remember "Pretty Plus" or "Extra Special Sizes"? My mother would order my clothes from JcPenney and I'd have a whole array of bellbottom cords and matching shirts (with one stripped shirt that had all the colors). I remember asking why it said, "Pretty Plus" and she just laughed and said, "I think it's to make moms feel better about having chubby kids." Even at age seven I think I understood what she meant. I looked cute in my Pretty Plus 7s and that was all that mattered.

Has anyone observed that only certain sizes are vanitied. Like 6, 10, 12 and 16? I swear a 12 today has so much range!

Geeze, Sharkysmachine, she should have said something like, "Because you're SO pretty that they have to say so. Only really pretty girls get to wear Pretty Plus."

6, 10, and 12 have tons of range. I'm not sure about 16, though I don't doubt it. I can say that I bought one pair of size 16 pants at my highest weight and they fit. Any other pair of size 16's would be very loose (I was about a 12-14 at that point) but those fit just like 12's from other places. I can fit some 6's right now, like A&F, Gap, and Old Navy, though other 6's like American Eagle still have me struggling to breathe. It all depends on the designer. And yeah yeah, I shop at some preppy places considering I have this badass punk image... what a contradiction. ;)

I remember when size 12 was a "normal" size. I was overseas for 6 years and I came back and was surprised that I was a plus size. Recently I lost ten lbs and went on a trip and forgotten my swimsuit, so I went to find one. I saw one size 14, it looked big so I tried it on. I was a wearing size 20, but come one a size 14, it fit. My husband said it was because I lost the weight. lol. Oh, please, give me a break, it was big. I bought because I needed one not because it was a size 14.

My pants range from size 12-16 :shrug:

My mother loathed the whole idea of "pretty plus" mostly because she didn't care what the tag said in our clothes as long as they were durable. She just found it amusing that it clearly wasn't for the children but the parents.

Even though I'm hardly preppy, I love American Eagle stuff in the summer. I love all their cute little mini skirts and tight citrus colored tees.

Its crazy how every store has gotten like this.... I went in and was getting a pair of size 7 pants and they fit PERFECTLY. When I got to the checkout, they didnt have a price tag so I went back and got the EXACT same Size, style, and brand. Well she put the one with the tag in the bag in case i needed to return it. When I got home, the IDENTICAL pair didnt fit... they were baggy in all the wrong places and I had to drive a half an hour back for the EXACT same pants I bought!!! Talk about ridiculous!

I don't know if we're allowed to post links.. But this shows a size 0 or 0/0 compared to an 18.. I wouldn't want to be a 0 or 0/0, but God knows I wouldn't mind being a 2!

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/...n_page_id=1879

That's pretty extreme! Sasha (the thinner woman) actually looks normal-- the thing that's making the picture look so "scary thin" is the fact that her ribcage is protruding so far out from her stomach... But I think (and hope!) that's all illusion: Where she took a deep breath in, hunched up her shoulders, and sucked in her tummy when they took that picture..

I also agree with what a lot of you have said about body structure: My dad's ENTIRE side of the family is built like birds-- they're all super thin, the women are all under 5'5", the men are all super tall and lanky.
My mom's entire family is larger boned, and are prone to being larger people.
My two brothers each take after one side and (lucky me) I got the "best" of both worlds: I got the height from my dad's side and the body-type from my mom's side!!

And lastly: I would friggen LOVE it Ladie's sizing was completely inches/measurement based!!! Or... we could level the playing field and do the same thing to men.
Pregnancy, Paps, and Pants.... Women put up with so much!!!

~Kat

GOAL:
185.2/172.6/135(ish)
Mini GOAL:
185.2/172.6/166.6
10% by St. Patrick's Day! I want to fit into my Dress!! Aiee!!!

The size Double Zero has been around for over 20 years. My step-mom wore a size Double Zero from the time she was 16 up until a couple of years ago. there is a difference in Zero and Double Zero. It's not much, but there is a double zero. As for being over weight, they say anything over a size 8 and you are "overweight," but for a lot of women, they have wide hips and can't fit into anything below a 10. I know that at my thinnest, and I only had a little fat on my hips, I wore an 11. You just need to get to a weight that looks good for your heighth and build and don't worry about being a size 1 or a size 2. I just hope to get to a size 9. Right now I am teetering between a 16 and an 18.

Originally Posted by goddess819:
I just wish that all the clothing makers would get together and use the same dang measurements for clothing!

I read about studies they did on vanity sizing though, and women buy more of the clothes of the same size if the tag says they are smaller. So it all comes down to money. If the label has a smaller number, the store makes more money, because the customers feel better about themselves shopping there than at the next store. No one really cares if it makes sense at all, apparently.

Um, I work for a clothing design company (we call ourselves a manufacturer but the actual sewing is done overseas). Our specs for measurements change almost every single season. Sometimes it's because the "trend" is predicted to be either a looser fit or more form fitting but most often it's because the owner of the company wears a size 10. Period. If she's been on a cruise for a month she still wears a size 10 when she comes back :rofl:

I have a suspicion that most lines are designed that way - someone in the design department likes the way a certain fit model looks so what ever measurements that model has becomes the size 10 (which, by the way, is NOT a plus size - at least for the sportswear industry).

As for the frustration with different sizes in the same store - Companies like Gap, Coldwater Creek, Talbot's, etc. actually don't manufacture a lot (if not most) of their own stuff. They contract with companies like the one I work for so they can save on design costs. Their buyers may decide they like the styles from 5 or 6 different manufactureres. Some of the companies may be European and using a different standard than a US company or some may have an owner that's been on a cruise ;) Paying someone in their company to sit down and block and grade a size chart then insist that their contractors tailor their designs to fit that chart would result in increased costs. There is a genius somewhere (probably a man) who said it is more cost effective to risk the loss of a sale than to spend the money to insure continuity in sizing.

I'm sure it doesn't make anyone feel any better so by all means continue to vent :D but I hope that makes the whole thing less of a mystery.

I actually appreciate the small sizing (when its actually small) because I have a very tiny frame. At my healthiest and slimmest ( I was running marathons, biking, etc.) I had a 20 inch waist and a 35 inch inseam, and finding clothing was MISERABLE.

I just wish they'd sell women's clothing like men's -- by physical dimension (inches). You get a 26 inch waist, 30 inch inseam, whatever. Or a 36 inch top. I know that fit would still vary widely because of differing body shapes, but dang it, at least we'd know where to start. The variation in clothing size from one vendor to another drives me nuts and wastes my time trying on a bunch of things just to find SOMETHING to fit right.

Of course, that ain't never gonna happen, because people like to be deluded into thinking that they are smaller than they really are.

some people are just naturally that small. i can't even imagine myself smaller than an 8 right now because my hip bones are naturally really wide. but i'm perfectly fine with it! i love my body shape! i just can't wait to get it looking better.

My DD just "out-grew" her size double zeros...she was so disappointed! She is now a single zero (Pity, pity) But then is only 14! She prides herself on being smaller than her friends----this worries me alot, since dieting is a huge part of what I am always thinking about.....:dizzy:

UK Reporters Diet for a 00
 

I saw a documentary somewhere about a couple of UK reporters (women) who went on various diets and spa treatments (colonics, etc) in order to get to a 00. They were both healthy weights, around 145. One ended up with an eating disorder (too much obsessing) and the other one met the 00 goal, but, she was totally not intent on keeping the size 00. She was looking forward to going back to her original size which was a 12, I think. It was an interesting show, I just can't remember the name!

Beth

I think it was called "race to size 00" or something like that- I thought it was insane- losing weight that fast would have given them loose skin and terribly crappy immune systems.

you got it!
 

Yup, you're right. It was Super Skinny Me: The Race to Size Zero. It did give a good perspective on body image, though, I think. I know my perspective of my body is off.

B

In the pictures the size 0 is rigid sucking in whatever stomach she thinks she has and is not smiling, the 18 is smiling and looking comfortable. Give me size 18 anytime over 0.

Yup, this is one reason I've been making my own clothes for ages. I get better fit, better choice, and the measurements are standardized and right on the envelope! But imagine my surprise when I went to try on a size 28 (my size in patterns) and the thing fell off of me. Vanity sizing is right. Ditto when I told my girlfriend (a post-partum size 4) that I was a 28. She wanted to know ready-to-wear, which is apparently 20-22, so her mouth kinda dropped. She prides herself on being able to eyeball people's sizes. Out with that theory, huh?

I've always noticed that about pattern sizing. When I was younger, my Mom made lots of bridesmaids dresses and whatnot. There was always a tiff because the woman who measured at a size 18 would refuse to buy the pattern sized for her. She wanted a 12. If it was for a large party, my Mom would use a larger-sized ladies pattern and the dress would fit perfectly. There were quite a few women who had to buy larger sizes after trying on the top half of the dress. One lady never came back until her dress was finished and it was woefully tight on her. She spent that entire wedding miserable in her tight dress and too-small foundation garments. :)

Besides the double 0 size pants, I'm also hating the XXS shirts. I deliberately laid out an outfit at American Eagle a few days ago w/ 00 jeans and an XXS shirt and I can tell you that I couldn't fit into that outfit when I was in the 6th grade. It's so depressing that those are actual sizes.

It's like "Hey just in case the XS is way too big here's the XXS". It makes me absolutely sick.

It's hard enough to know what size you are, but even worse when you're losing weight and your body is changing! In Coast in the UK, a size 8 dress looked too baggy on me, in Karen Millen a size 10 barely fit. Then in Primark I've worn PJ bottoms which were a size 18, even though I was barely a size 14. My current pair are also from there and they're an 8-10 and falling off my hips, but I don't think that Primark makes clothes for human beings. Their sizes are always wrong!

Originally Posted by jademarlene:
In the pictures the size 0 is rigid sucking in whatever stomach she thinks she has and is not smiling, the 18 is smiling and looking comfortable. Give me size 18 anytime over 0.

AGREE!!!! I like being plus sized. I don't want to be 'thin' or even 'normal' because I think a little weight on a woman is a very attractive thing. However, my main goal is to be comfortable and healthy.

I guess its different in New Zealand.
Most sizing starts at 6 and goes to well it depends on the store. Most "fashionable" shops will go up to 16-18 whereas most other shops can go up to 26 - 36.

Gosh I get upset when I see a size 6 so I cant even imagine what seeing a size 00 does to a plus size girl!!

My cousin is a dancer and VERY small. She's not anorexic or anything like that she's just lean and muscular. She wears a 00 and XXS. I still remember her brother holding up a pair of jeans once while we were all at my grandfather's house and gasping. "WTH?!!! 00 isn't even a size??? are you invisible?" We had this huge conversation about how women's clothing sizes are stupid. I totally agree and the sizing variances make it all the harder.

I must say that I have the same problems with clothing for my kids. Depending on the brand and cut my 2 year old can wear anything from a 12mos to 4t and my 5 year old can wear anything from a 4 to a 7. It's annoying that everyone can't just get on the same page! Surely they're not using vanity sizing for toddler clothing!

haha my FH hates it too when he looks at my closet he's totally confused! I love chicos! With their "special sizing" i'm a size 1 or 1.5 hahaha but they cost too much maybe when I hit my goal I'll be a chicos size 0 and will award myself a shopping spree!

Here's one for you; I saved a pair of awesome LEI pants from the mid-90s when I was in high-school that I wore until the late 90s when I had my first son. They are a size 13. I just held them up to a pair of sz 9 Union Bay jeans that are too tight on my brother's 140 lb 5'4" girlfriend and the waist diameter is the same!!!! I mean exactly. This girl usually wears around a 6/8, the UB jeans were oddly small compared to most of her other jeans. Those 13s were loose on me and rode on my hips when I was about 170 lbs. I've always carried a lot of muscle.... but wow.

And how can a 13 be the same as a small sz 9 now?

I'm holding onto those pants hoping I can get back into them some day. After having kids though I'm not sure my belly/waist will go back down. My legs are looking great but man do I have a mom gut & hips issue going on.

You'd have to be extremely petite ( small height wise) to fit into a 00 with a halfway healthy weight. My daughter wore a size 0 at 5'2 and 105 pounds. But she's 13 !

I've seen those before. Just insane.

I also wish they made womens pants like mens sizes. I remember complaining once about how I had to hem my jeans when I was like 12 and I remember my brother saying really matter of factly "Um, go down a length size? Duh.." in which I explained to him the nonsensical womens sizing. He felt pity for us lol.

I was actually thinking about that today, as my jeans dragged on the ground. I'm freaking nearly 5'7"! This isn't fair, short sizes high water on me, but normal sizes are an inch too long. I'm in that stupid limbo where my legs are slightly shorter than normal and my torso is slightly longer than normal. GKJDHGkdsjgkdjs!!!!

And speaking of 00's, there's so many double zero girls at my school. I live in a sort of richy suburban area, and everyone is soooo shallow like that. I'm like, twice the size of a lot of girls here and I'm really not that big anymore! I feel like a whale at school, but that's not the point. Today I was walking behind these two girls who looked like either a zero or double zero, they were TINY. But it was gross because I could see all the bones in their spines and shoulder blades, and they had concave butts, I swear. Coupled with their fake tans and white blonde hair, I couldn't help but think how both unattractive and UNHEALTHY they looked....

My boyfriend dated a girl like that before me and he equating kissing her to "making out with a bag of concrete."

At 5'7" and 119 pounds, in the early 70's I wore a Jr. 9. My sister who was 5'4" wore a 3 which could only be found in 5-7-9 shops and only occasionally. I don't know what she weighed, but she didn't look skinnier than I was.

While most of my clothes were 9's, I did own three skorts: a 9, a 7 and a 5. I think there typically was a lot less difference in size from brand to brand and that this was more of an exception.

In the mid-80s at the same weight I still wore a 9, but I bought one party dress in a 5 because it fit much better.

My daughter, when she became too tall for girls clothes wore a 0 and 1 for several years. Try finding a size one in a school uniform where for the most part junior sizes did not exist - uniforms went from girls' sizes to misses' sizes. Trying to find shorts that didn't fall off but meet the requirement to be no shorter than fingertips was impossible. She had to wear capris, which weren't officially part of the uniform. At least she only had to meet color requirements and wasn't constrained to buy a specific brand. I'm sure we would have had to have a seamstress tailor her clothes in that case. For non-school clothes, the selection in the 0/1s was limited and sleazy. It was hard to find anything appropriate to wear. .

All of this to say that sizes are crazy. Figuring out which stores carry and stock sizes is difficult. And shopping is a nightmare. I do remember going up to a salesperson in Penney's a few years ago to ask if they actually carried any pants in size 16. Yes they apparently did. And apparently they had all been purchased as I could not find a single pair in the store. With computurized stocking systems, I don't understand why the more popular sizes aren't purchased in larger quantities and/or repurchased when sold out or nearly sold out.

The thing that makes me sad is that these 0's and 00's lead to a lifetime of unhealthy eating as a result. This goal is just NOT attainable for the average adult woman. My DH picks up these tiny shirts at the store and is just shocked that we aren't in the little girls section.
I'm not saying that some people aren't healthy in the 0's. I have a niece who is VERY small, and probably will be her whole life. But for most women they will always want to be trying to attain this size 0 perfect body, and never feel good enough at a 6, 8,14 or whatever, when in reality that may be just fine for them. I have to wonder though if people in these size 0's are able to easily bear children? The body naturally shuts down these parts of the body when it can tell someone is not able to physically carry a child. That article that was posted even mentions that (fertility).
I personally have come to terms with the fact that I will always have a little something "extra" on me. I personally am not willing to do what I would have to to be a size 00-6...I still want to eat out with DH in moderation, and live my life. I would like to be smaller from a HEALTH prespective...I just wish that was more of the focus then on how you LOOK....

As long as 00 is only a label and they don't actually make clothes THAT tiny...! I mean, I've said it in a few places, I'm from Argentina and in Argentina there's no law regulating that stores bring a variety of sizes... so everything is size 0, or as they call it the "one size fits all"; of course, that only works for T-shirts and tops... they are TINY and they supposedly stretch, but they don't, so girls like me don't fit in them.

Anyhow, what I'm saying is that I don't care if sizes range from 00000 to 0 as the largest; what would definitely concern me would be if they made clothes absolutely tiny that wouldn't fit regular or curvy women.