Hi there Megster!

The last time I've really done what *I* consider binging (of course, remembering that we are all different and I don't say I speak for everyone - only my experiences) other than during my first couple of BFL challenges where I overate on Free Days "because it was allowed on the plan", was probably back during my first marriage prior to May 1990 - mostly out of boredom and habit, not because of any underlying psychological issues or what have you - because I actually consider my family pretty 'normal', albeit with a pretty weird and lively sense of humor which I figure comes from my dad's side of the family... :lol:

My personal definition of a 'binge' is eating a great deal of food in a very short period of time - just looked up Webster's version and it's about the same:

Originally Posted by :
Main Entry: binge
Pronunciation: 'binj
Function: noun
Etymology: English dialect binge (to drink heavily)
1 a : a drunken revel : SPREE b : an unrestrained and often excessive indulgence <a buying binge>

For me it was a habit - come home from work (or school) and first place ya go is open up the fridge and see what the Snack Fairy has left in there...or being alone in the house (like when I was babysitting or if my parents had gone out) first thing that would run through my mind is "oooh what can I eat before they get home?" because of course I was supposed to be dieting...

And during my first marriage (up until mid-1990) I was alone much of the time and that was my ACTIVITY OF CHOICE. Nothing a shrink would be interested in. I was alone with the TV, time to eat! It didn't have anything to do with blocking out pain or whatever, the food was there so I ate it.

15 years later, I've gotten to the point where I do NOT like the feeling of overstuffedness after 'an unrestrained and often excessive indulgence'. Basically the times I do overeat (I'm not a saint, trust me!) is usually not all in one sitting, but what our Meg has called BLT's "Bites, Licks, and Tastes" aka the "Just one won't hurt" type of thing...ya know where something's sitting around the office or whereever and you just take ONE BITE, and then a little later you come back and take ANOTHER BITE (or another Triscuit, or another Hershey's Kiss) and eventually working up to a significant number of calories from BLTs that are usually forgotten about because they were 'too teeny' to write down. THAT type of thing can be just as damaging (I mean physically damaging - I don't claim to be a psychiatrist - and who am I to make judgements or diagnoses about other people?) as a pigout, IMO.

Anyways...to me, it came down to "replacing one habit with another". Instead of having all that time sitting on my fat butt open for pigging out, I found other things to do to occupy my time. Exercise was and is a BIG one for me - at the beginning it was walking around our very hilly neighborhood, taking a low-impact aerobics class a couple times a week, that morphed into Jazzercise classes 4 - 5 times a week...now it's my current schedule which I won't bore the crap out of you with but suffice to say that between the gym, the stable, my current heavy workload and what Jim calls the "girly" stuff (mani/pedicures, beauty stuff, that sort of thing) I don't generally give myself the OPPORTUNITY to pig out.

(and incidentally, I don't consider myself an "exercise addict" or one who "exercises excessively" unless I'm being compared to a couch potato...I LOVE to exercise and still love to be able to do what I couldn't do at 265 lbs - and my PCP has NO problem with it whatsoever, so there ya go!)

Plus at home, we don't keep that much around the house to have a chowfest on anyway - the 'worst' thing in the house at the moment is a box of Wheaties - gotta keep cold cereal, the staple Guy Food, around the house, otherwise he gets really anxious. :lol: Probably the two worst situations I have to deal with are at my sister's house when I babysit - she keeps stuff like peanut butter and Wonder bread - and the Betty Crocker on our floor who feels that it's necessary to keep two baskets constantly filled with chocolate on her desk (Hey! Pat has the same problem I do!!! Woo-hoo!! Don't you just want to DUMP all that crap down the garbage chute sometimes when noone else is looking? Unfortunately it would be futile because she goes to Costco and buys huge Industrial Size bags of the stuff every week, so she'd just replace it. :lol: :rolleyes: )

Anyway...summing up this novel... :D it depends on what you mean by 'binging' ya know? For me, a binge is just eating WAY too much in a very short amount of time and feeling nauseous afterwards. Nothing 'deep' attached to it. My girl-cat does it too - if we put a lot of food in her dish she will WOLF it down, and if we feed Chalupa Boy next to her, she'll finish hers and smack him away from his dish and chow down! (of course, we put a stop to that and she's on a strict diet and Boy eats up on the table where she can't get to his food.) I haven't had a chance to question her about her habits, but I assume it's because she's an indoor cat and that's one of her main fun activities - eating (along with chasing her toys around the house).

Whew...I probably didn't say much but there ya go...

For me binging is that uncontrolled, feverish, shoveling of food that will only take place if no one else is around. My meals and eating schedule are, for the most part, extremely planned out so, fortunately, binges are few and far between for me. They usually occur when one of my trigger foods (which I don't normally have around) is present, I'm feeling weak, and I decide to "have a taste". One taste will lead to another, and another, and another and that's all she wrote. I am usually completely aware of what I'm doing and internally screaming at myself to stop. Sometimes I do, but not always right away. When it does happen, it is never as bad as the old days. I don't think I am physically capable of that anymore (thank goodness) and now it would be confined to only the one food item on hand instead of the free for all's of the past. I absolutely despise the out of control feelings they evoke and I strive very hard not to allow them to occur. Unfortunately, I know that this is something I will always struggle with since it seems to be just the way my brain is wired, but at least now I know that a binge does not signify failure. And instead of beating myself up about it and allowing the viscous cycle to continue, I make a point to understand how and why it happened and then get back on plan right away without delay.

Beverly

I've had a few examples the last few days. EXTREMELY stressful time on the homefront right now. I was very tired yesterday, and I've had approximately 5 hours (in stages) of sleep starting at 3:30 a.m. this morning. Last night, with all the stress, though I'd already eaten, I was still wanting to eat. I recognized that I was not hungry. But I had to do something because I was GOING to eat regardless because of the situation. So I cut up a cantaloupe. I ended up eating the entire thing. It came to a little over 2 cups however, which is just over 100 calories. So if I have to, I at least will do it with the least amount of damage to my system.

You are absolutely right Mrs Jim, its not deep psychological issues or people necessarily from unhappy homes, though some are. That is what makes it so sad that people are afraid and resistent to the idea of just looking a little bit below the surface of bingeing to see what is really there. Its not a big dark secret that will pull you in, but just a mis-learned response from childhood taught by often well-meaning parents. This is not a witch-hunt, but rather a means to de-code head hunger, which bingeing is a form of.

"Here, Baby Girl, dont be sad, stop crying, this ice cream cone will make you feel all better and happy" is a pretty common experience from many of our childhoods and how we benignly begin to use food to push away unpleasant emotions. Its that simple.

From Thin for Life by Fletcher, old version, page 201: "A number of masters reported that, in the past, they had used food to obliterate their emotions rather than confront their feelings. Research does suggest that overwieght individuals tend to eat more than those who are of normal weight in response to negative emotions, particularily if tasty foods are available.

"There is little question that the short-term effect of stuffiing yourself with food can be anesthetizeing, bringing temporary relief from anxiety and frustration. Food provides immediate gratification, and overeating can lead to feelings of sluggishness, drosiness and calmness. In the long run, however, the pay-off diminishes, and the person who overeats is left with feelings of guilt and remorse, and a worsening weight problem and the unresolved problems that precipitated the eating in the first place."

And later: "Unpleasant emotions and problems are part of life. They will be there whether or not you turn to food. Sometimes you just have to accept what you are feeling. Master and weight control counselor Kelly S. says, "I think sometimes people need to be 'there' for that feeling -- or just feel something and do nothing. You can choose to use food one more time, but you know what the consequences will be."

Fletcher also has sections on "putting a lid on emotional eating" and also one called "dealing with specific emotions" .

Why not read these sections too and see what you think. Or do you still want to be battling bingeing and head hunger a decade from now? If you accept what the first several chapters in Thin for Life say, why not this one too?

There is a way out if you are willing to take it. Just like losing weight, its your free choice to look into this or not. No one has to of course. If what I have said makes you angry, resentful, or fearful, there just might be something to it..... Overweight is really not just about food and eating -- Its just not that simple. This is partly why diets have a 95% failure rate.

Jan

Originally Posted by jansan:
You are absolutely right Mrs Jim, its not deep psychological issues or people necessarily from unhappy homes, though some are. That is what makes it so sad that people are afraid and resistent to the idea of just looking a little bit below the surface of bingeing to see what is really there. Its not a big dark secret that will pull you in, but just a mis-learned response from childhood taught by often well-meaning parents. This is not a witch-hunt, but rather a means to de-code head hunger, which bingeing is a form of.

"Here, Baby Girl, dont be sad, stop crying, this ice cream cone will make you feel all better and happy" is a pretty common experience from many of our childhoods and how we benignly begin to use food to push away unpleasant emotions. Its that simple.

From Thin for Life by Fletcher, old version, page 201: "A number of masters reported that, in the past, they had used food to obliterate their emotions rather than confront their feelings. Research does suggest that overwieght individuals tend to eat more than those who are of normal weight in response to negative emotions, particularily if tasty foods are available.

"There is little question that the short-term effect of stuffiing yourself with food can be anesthetizeing, bringing temporary relief from anxiety and frustration. Food provides immediate gratification, and overeating can lead to feelings of sluggishness, drosiness and calmness. In the long run, however, the pay-off diminishes, and the person who overeats is left with feelings of guilt and remorse, and a worsening weight problem and the unresolved problems that precipitated the eating in the first place."

And later: "Unpleasant emotions and problems are part of life. They will be there whether or not you turn to food. Sometimes you just have to accept what you are feeling. Master and weight control counselor Kelly S. says, "I think sometimes people need to be 'there' for that feeling -- or just feel something and do nothing. You can choose to use food one more time, but you know what the consequences will be."

Fletcher also has sections on "putting a lid on emotional eating" and also one called "dealing with specific emotions" .

Why not read these sections too and see what you think. Or do you still want to be battling bingeing and head hunger a decade from now? If you accept what the first several chapters in Thin for Life say, why not this one too?

There is a way out if you are willing to take it. Just like losing weight, its your free choice to look into this or not. No one has to of course. If what I have said makes you angry, resentful, or fearful, there just might be something to it..... Overweight is really not just about food and eating -- Its just not that simple. This is partly why diets have a 95% failure rate.

Jan

I wonder. Are you addressing *me* personally with this post - or are you just using me as an example?

One of my personal axioms is "take what you need and leave the rest". ANY time I read a book - or article or what have you - I use what is applicable to my personal situation. I do believe that Thin for Life is an excellent book and recommend it highly. HOWEVER that does NOT mean I feel that everything in the book - or ANY book - applies to me. (for example, I often recommend Michael Fumento's Fat of the Land - however that doesn't mean I think everything in the book is great - the chapter titled "Pill Talk" can be skipped over IMO).

If your entire post quoted above was addressed to me, I can assure you - not that it's any concern of yours - that my parents did not 'shush' me or my three sisters with food.

Anyway...I think after maintaining a 100+ lb weight loss for well over a decade; living a life I truly enjoy; a wonderful husband who unconditionally loves me; my family and great friends close by; fulfilling my dream of becoming an equestrienne; and my career (which I truly enjoy) advancing with each passing year...summing it up...I believe I'm doing pretty well for myself, without someone who really DOESN'T know me at all attempting to pick apart my weight loss because I didn't follow every word in every chapter to your satisfaction...well...'tain't my problem.

I KNOW that *for me* I've got it figured out (Kinda reminds me of Anne Fletcher's tip - Do it your way dunnit?). Maybe it's not to YOUR satisfaction, but again that's not my problem...and I think I'll pass on your homework assignment, thankyaverymuch.... :rolleyes:

...also...I note you didn't mention my "binging" cat. :P

Karen, thank you for taking all the time to put your experiences into words for us! I can’t tell you how valuable it is to have a long-term maintainer here at 3FC sharing the wisdom that you’ve acquired from LIVING maintenance every day for the past fifteen years. You, my dear, were the first person who let me believe that long-term weight loss IS possible and sustainable and you continue to be the shining beacon for me as I travel the path. :)

I know you’re too modest to ever admit this yourself, but all the talk about Thin For Life brought it to mind, so I’m going to let out your little secret to our group. Ladies, you all know how Anne Fletcher interviewed her ‘weight loss masters’ for TFL? The ones who have maintained large weight losses and gave her the tips and insights into maintenance that make up TFL? Well, Anne Fletcher didn’t know Karen when she wrote TFL then but she sure knows her now and has been corresponding with her lately. She even sent you a stack of autographed books, right, Karen? Anne Fletcher knows that a long, long, LONG term maintainer - like Karen - is a rare thing indeed and has tons of valuable insights to offer to the rest of us.

So thanks for sticking aroung here with us, Karen – you’re definitely our own in-house 'weight loss master'! :D

It is so comforting to know that there are maintainers out there who still struggle with the same demon as I do-binging.
My binges always start at work, where I am a caregiver. Today I am at work, doing a 24hr shift! There is a lot of junk food here, but that is what the rest of the world is like, so I know that quitting my job will not end my binging habit. Anyways, I am not binging today.
The biggest thing I have learned through my weight loss journey is the "pause" that comes from having the disciplines in my life of planning my food, exercising, etc. By pause I mean that split second where I can choose to put the food in my mouth or not. Due to the aforementioned disciplines, I am hyperaware of my behavior and thinking about food, and I think that this deters me from binging most of the time. However, sometimes I pause, and I think "screw it, I want this, I am gonna have it, and I really do not care about the consequences".
My problem is listening to the lies that my mind tells me. I am getting better and better at not believing the lies, but sometimes I still cave in.

Hi everybody! I'm a not-yet-at-goal maintainer. This thread is really interesting. I wanted to jump in and say that I agree that the bingeing doesn't have to be from emotional issues. While I've had emotional issues with it in the past, bingeing for me usually is just because I LOVE FOOD. I love to cook it, I love to read recipes, and I love shopping for obscure items I've never seen. To me, it is art to put together an amazing recipe, and testing it is an indulgence that I too frequently give in - not to mention trying what every restaurant in town has made. I read travel magazines and food industry publications. Forget the marble bathrooms and seaside verandas, show me what they're cooking up in the kitchen! I know head hunger, and it still hits me on the rare occasion, but I have to say that overeating or bingeing for me is purely because I love food and that love is stronger than my self control. No emotional scarring underneath.

My solution? For now, it''s usually because I am never alone. My husband works at home and we homeschool our son, so we are most always together when I'm not at work. They know I'm trying to shake off the last of the weight and if I blow it, they'll see me and I'll be disappointed in myself. I'm not staying on track just because of them. Along the way, I have learned self respect for myself, and I learned that I can do without bingeing, and that I hate the feeling afterward. If they were to both go on holiday tomorrow and leave me behind, I'm not sure if I would stay on track without them. That would certainly be a test! I'd like to say that I've learned the self control by now, but I really just don't know because I haven't had the chance to see *really* if I have learned to control it solo. Of course, I mostly control it anyway, whether I like it or not :D , but I'm talking about the control that happens by habit. I think I'll always have to tell myself it is time to stop eating, or justify in my mind that I DON'T need chocolate even though I want it.

I was always an overeater and not really a binge eater until I lost weight... messed up eh?

I still overeat sometimes, I still binge occassionally (well too much during my recovery from surgury).

I binge mostly when I am tired, haven't had enough protien or if I am extremely anxious (I binge when I don't really know what is bothering me).

Anyway, I am working at it. I keep redlight foods out of my house. I moved offices to where we don't have too many Betty Crockers (well I moved due to a promotion and this is a bonus). I usually have something to do every evening of the week, be it a run/workout, coffee with a friend, a trip to Costco or a shift at my second job and it helps!! I am not a huge fan (although I do enjoy doing this occassionally) of watching TV all evening (I love newsy indepth shows). I made a rule in my teens never to turn down plans due to something on TV, so this in itself got me out of the TV watching habit. I also watch TV in my bedroom where I don't want to bring food to and get crumbs everywhere.

I can mostly contain my desire to binge, but it isn't always successful... ONe day at a time right?

Cheers ladies!

Ali

I think one of the issue this thread has brought up indirectly is that there is a huge difference in what is truely considered binge eating, and just plain eating too much every once in a while. From my understanding and experience, bingeing is an all-out assault on food: pretty much an unconscious drive to continue stuffing food into yourself in a short period of time. What most of us are describing here is just plain overeating: 3 cookies when one would have been plenty, an extra lick, bite or taste, an unplanned meal. That's not a binge. I'd liken a true food binge to an alcoholic's bender...eating until there's nothing left or you physically can't stand any more. From what I'm reading here, I see way too much rationality and self-awareness for that to be happening. Terminology difference, and a huge difference in behavior.

Just my 2 cents.

Mel

Originally Posted by courageousincolorado:
It is so comforting to know that there are maintainers out there who still struggle with the same demon as I do-binging.
My binges always start at work, where I am a caregiver.

I wish I could find someone courageousinvirginia. My FIL has just come out of surgery for a massive heart attack and we can't even leave the house because we can't find a caregiver on short notice to care for my bedridden MIL. :(

Mel: Yup there is a difference, when I binge I eat anything and everything it seems... bread, toast, tortillas, cheese, peanut butter, cookies, apple or whatever, it is not just having a couple of extra goodies... I eat until I feel sick, but the only difference between me and bulimic is that I don't throw up. Luckily these incidences are becoming fewer and fewer.

Cheers!

Ali

This has turned into the best thread! What great responses and insights! There's nothing like knowing that we're not alone in navigating the challenges of maintenance.

You're not going to believe this, but I just finished reading Chapter 5 of Thin For Life for next week's discussion - Nip It In The Bud: Break The Relapse Cycle - and it's going to dovetail perfectly with all the issues that have surfaced in this thread. So if you have TFL, read chapter 5 and we'll carry this discussion right over into that thread. If you don't have it, don't worry, I'll summarize the chapter in detail so you can join right in. Of course, everyone's welcome to keep the discussion going here too. :)

"I look at it as MANAGEMENT, not a cure." Ain’t that the truth!!

I’m sure glad someone mentioned that binging doesn’t have to come from emotional problems... because certainly my mother never ever gave us food when we were sad or mad or whatever, we ate because it was dang good....

My binges used to be eating till my stomach hurt, I felt bloated and guilty, and would continue my binge for the whole day or weekend... Now, I can think through a binge and manage them, although I am NOT cured either...

What has stopped me from eating certain things OFTEN is thinking of the carb coma I’ll be in if I eat too much processed food... and I really DISLIKE being out of commission for the afternoon just because of a donut or muffin ... Thinking ahead and visualizing the aftermath of a binge is key...

I loved the discussion here, I could see myself in every single person's post... I hate being the last one to the party because I don't want to repeat everything that's been said :( ...

Originally Posted by Mel:
I think one of the issue this thread has brought up indirectly is that there is a huge difference in what is truely considered binge eating, and just plain eating too much every once in a while. From my understanding and experience, bingeing is an all-out assault on food: pretty much an unconscious drive to continue stuffing food into yourself in a short period of time. What most of us are describing here is just plain overeating: 3 cookies when one would have been plenty, an extra lick, bite or taste, an unplanned meal. That's not a binge. I'd liken a true food binge to an alcoholic's bender...eating until there's nothing left or you physically can't stand any more. From what I'm reading here, I see way too much rationality and self-awareness for that to be happening. Terminology difference, and a huge difference in behavior.

Just my 2 cents.

Mel

Again...I think Mel really summed things up here for most of us. Eating the food 'because it's there' and then eating too much.

Like when you go to a Mexican restaurant that puts a big ol' basket of chips in the center of the table the minute you sit down...and you just start 'picking' at them and before you know it - POOF! Then the busperson will bring ANOTHER basket automatically. (This happens at Chevy's a lot - but they have great menu choices otherwise, lots of veggies, lean protein and such)

Same if you go to an Italian or 'California Cuisine' restaurant with the basket of bread in the center. It's there, so of course the first response is to eat it. If it wasn't there, who would care?

Actually last time we went to Chevy's (been awhile - Jim's been REALLY busy on the weekends with his music lately) we tried an experiment - BEFORE we were seated I asked that no chips be brought to the table (I gave the reason "your chips are just too damn good and I'm a weak, weak person" :lol: ) and that worked...for awhile - after we ordered, before the food arrived I went to visit the ladies', and when I came back, Jim was eating chips (he salts each one individually before he eats it). Apparently the busperson was uninformed as to our wishes, and Jim just could NOT resist! :dizzy: On the bright side, they DID leave a full pitcher of iced tea on the table as well...

Anyways - Mel summed it up perfectly I think...