I guess we all had food rules growing up that we wish that our parents didn't do to us. How many of us are members of the clean plate club, for example? But I'm finding that the rules of adult eating are not the rules of children eating. So as my DD is pitching her umteenth tantrum during dinner, I doubt myself. (Yes, I know that doubting myself during a major tantrum is par for the course, but it raises serious issues.)

I'm specifically dealing with a 2 year old, so bear that in mind, but I know several of us have children of other ages, teenagers for example, and mine will eventually grow (if I can get her to eat), so general ideas are good.

Anyway, I want her to eat a decent evening meal with us as a family. She doesn't want to eat an evening meal. If she's not hungry, don't force her right? And I don't. But I want her to have a nutritious meal at least once a day, learn how to eat with people (no spitting!), and spend some time together as a family. Dinner is more than just filling an empty stomach, although that is a large part of it, of course, and I want to create this ritual for us.

Next topic. Dessert. The "experts" say don't use dessert as a reward, as it makes it a special forbidden food that will create issues later. Kids should get it no matter what if the family is having it. DD would just as soon skip the chicken and rice, and plow right into the chocolate pudding every night of the week (as would I for that matter). She has thrown her plate on the floor and demanded it, after having it the night before. Clearly this is a special food, regardless of how I treat it, so I think the experts are loopy on chocolate pudding. The reality is, she needs some nutritious food before filling up on less nutritious stuff, because unlike me, she will not eat when she is not hungry. No chicken, no pudding. And she needs good food to grow.

I have other rules too, no eating in front of TV, etc, all with similar, well-thought out rationale.

I think my biggest guilt trips as a mother are about food, from giving her milk from my own body when I was born, to letting her eat white bread once in a while, to thinking that I overthink it and am just passing along my hang-ups and problems in a different form and I should relax and let her have the big cookie while watching Dora. I know that I desperately want her not to be obese, and to help her as much as I can along those lines. It was just too painful growing up like that.

What do you guys do? Do you have rules? What is reasonable/necessary and what is just putting our issues on the next generation in slightly different form? I'm conflicted.

Anne

Good Lord we are more twinnish every minute of the day. I'll bbl to write our saga with dd.

tonight my daughter ate one bite of corn.
last night my daughter ate 7 grapes for dinner.

these were better than average nights

sound familiar?

OK - first I think we read the same book about not making desert special and I agree that is b.s. I think if you have a child who eats a reasonable variety of food on a normal basis then it might be reasonable. I understand not wanting to go the "clean your plate to get dessert" - you shouldnt stuff yourself for dessert, but no, if dessert is just an option, that would be all dd would eat.

If we are at someone elses house we let her have dessert when everyone else has dessert. At our house we tend to deal with the issue by not mentioning dessert and not serving it. I dont believe in having dessert be an expected end to every meal anyway. Sometimes if she has eaten well then we will produce dessert, but we dont use it as a bargaining tool. More along the lines of "hmmmm mommy made dessert tonight, would you like some?" - never mentioning how she ate. And we dont do it all the " good nights" either. (Because I do chafe when both grandmas praise her for being a good eater when she eats a huge amount of grilled cheese or pizza)

We make dd sit at the table with us for dinner until WE are done or she has tried one bite of everything. This has been the rule since she was ~ 2 years? In the year and a half that we have been enforcing this rule she has willingly come to the dinner table only on taco night and she has eaten a noticible amount of dinner oh....maybe once a month? Most nights she sits at the table and pouts and does not try one bite. Dh tried the "try one bite or you cant leave the table" for awhile but we ended up having to take her straight to bed and she never would try it.

We had luck with letting her serve her self from family style dishes for about 2 weeks and she tried a few new things then, but then the novelty wore off and she was back to not eating anything.

We always leave her plate on the table until she goes to bed that way there it is if she claims hungry later.

"She will eat when she is hungry" Really? She was sick with a recurring stomach bug last year. When she got the second bout of vomiting (day 3) she was put on a super slow return to food program. 1/4 saltine per hour for 6 hours, then 1/2 saltine....basically she had to not throw up for 48 hours before she was allowed anything more than saltines. She was crying and begging for food. "I'm sooooo hungry" It had been 5 days since she had eaten food.

I moved on to the next allowed food on the list. White rice - which at the time she liked - and she refused it because she wanted mac and cheese. She refused to eat for another 12 hours. Then she finally accepted bread.

I worry because when she DOES get food she likes, like tacos or pizza she will eat as much or more than I could possibly eat. Its like she binges to store up for the next time I let her have not so great food.

I worry about the power struggle. Sometimes she wont eat food that she DOES like just because it is dinner time.

Manners, Spitting, throwing food on the floor - that we dealt with using timeouts.

I have a 2 and a 4 year old so I know exactly what you are going through. I have rules, and they aren't always followed but heres how it is in our house.

Breakfast: Kids eat at breakfast table. I give them their choice of numerous items

Lunch: At table, they generally have a sandwich type item and a fruit.

Snack: A fruit served in the family room that they can eat as they play. (Apple slices, grapes, etc)

Dinner: At table as a family. I make at least one item that each member of the family will eat. For example, if I make fish, which my son won't touch, I also make homemade mac and cheese, because I know he will eat that. I also make veggies that at least one of them will eat.

Dessert: They can NOT have dessert unless they eat their dinner. Dessert is not a "reward" for eating dinner... but it is a "punshiment" if they don't. They expect dessert, but know if they don't eat a sutiable dinner, they are not allowed to eat junk.

Example, tonight my son didn't want to eat this dinner. I said fine, you don't have to, but no dessert. When I gave my daughter dessert, he started crying and having a fit. So, I said, if you want what your sister is having, you have to eat your soup. So, he perched himself up at the dinner table and scarfed down the homemade soup I had prepared. Only then did I offer him dessert.

My daughter eats like a champ if its food she likes. My son, the 2 yr old, we're lucky if we can get a meal and a half a day in him. He is very slim and really doesn't want to eat. The exception I do make is this. If my son doesn't eat his dinner and wants a banana, I do allow that. I never turn my kids down when they ask for fruit. I'm just happy they want it.

They don't have to clean their plate, but they do need to make an effert to eat at least half.

My stepkids are older, 6 and 9. We only have a few rules::

1) Don't start breakfast out with sugar. That means, they can have a peanut butter sandwich if they want, but no chocolate sprinkles (they love that!).

2) Try something at least once. If you haven't tried it, you can't say "I don't like it". About 90% of the time they like what they've tried, even if they turned their nose up at it the first time they've seen it. If you don't like it really, then you don't have to eat it.

3) Desserts are for special occassions. Fruit and yoghurt are served after dinner when at least half the meal has been eaten (and obviously we give them smaller portions!)

4) No pop! We made an exception during our holiday, but they know pop is special and not for drinking all day.

That's about it. As far as I know their mother is pretty consistent with these things too, but even if she wasn't they totally respect the rules in our house. They love fruit and vegetables - something I never really learned to like until I was out of the house. Everything came from a tin!

I was also a member of the clean plate club which is probably why I have to constantly think about stopping when I am full and not finishing the whole thing.

I can't help you with that: I've never had a child to take care of. But I agree a lot with Velveteen's point 2). My parents never enforced that rule with me (how could they, since my own father still acts this way?), and it took me to reach the ripe age of 27 to finally put myself forcefully into the mindset of "try it once, and only after that are you allowed to say that you don't like it". Try it twice, three times, four times, even--sometimes, it takes more than just one attempt to know if you truly like/dislike a food or will only tolerate it without running after it. Who would have thought that I actually like eggplants and red cabbage? (I even happen to like durian, and that, my friends, seems to be no small feat for a person from a Western culture. )

Anyway, yes, if a child can learn to do that from a young age, it's very likely for his/her own benefit later on.

I have a 2 year old and I'm struggling with the same thing. First of all, you have to recognize that the tendency to prefer sweets and junk is often inborn. There was a recent study that came out that showed that picky eaters mostly get it genetically. So, keep in mind that pickiness or preference for sweets is just part of the kid and not something your parenting created. However, your job is to teach your child to learn good habits without making them neurotic.

My approach is that I encourage an awareness of healthy food and the consumption of as much healthy food as possible, but I also offer her some higher fat/refined carb/sugary foods, too. My kid is not overweight and there is no reason why someone who is not fighting a weight struggle shouldn't have some of those things in their diet. My rules are ...

- I serve at least one fruit or vegetable to her at every meal. Sometimes she'll take a couple bites, sometimes she won't, but at least she is learning that having healthy foods with a meal is a normal thing.

- She has to eat at least some of her regular meal before she gets any dessert. I agree with you that the "experts" you cited are loopy on this one. From the first moment she had a sweet treat, she knew they were special.

- If she's hungry between meals, she can eat healthy foods like fruit, cheese, or wholegrain breads - but no sweets for between-meal snacks (except special occasions).

- We serve her whatever the family is eating.

- If she chooses not to eat her meal, that's fine, but she's not getting anything else (besides milk) until the next normal snack or mealtime.

- All rules are suspended for parties and other special events - she can eat what she wants then.

Kery, LOL about the durian . . . I tried it once (in pudding form, not straight) and couldn't get over the smell. It tasted OK, but you know how it's like once you smell pickles everything tastes like pickles, except durian smells like rotting flesh instead!

Not having any kids, I can't give any advice on this issue. When I was a kid, the only rule I remember is we had to eat a piece of fruit before we were allowed to eat dessert. The only times my sister and I were served something different from what my parents were eating was when they had spicy food, since it was too spicy for us as kids. Then again, I wouldn't follow my parents' rules since they ended up with my whole family being overweight or obese.

It's funny about sweets being "special." At my house we always had sweets around and I ate them at least once or twice a day when I was a kid. My fiance, OTOH, never had sweets in the house, so when they would get some, they would binge on them and devour the entire container. Both of us ended up eating large amounts of junk food in college. It's like, if the sweets are there all the time, you get used to eating them as a normal part of your diet. If they're never there, it's this kind of "eat it quick before it's gone again" mentality. Ennay, your dessert rule sounds pretty good!

Anne~I have two kids and both survived toddlerhood, but I'm no expert. Here are some things that I did in our household.

1--we NEVER ate dessert when the kids were little. I might have some cookies around but they were for a sometimes treat, not for dessert. If DH wanted something sweet, he'd fix a PB&J after dinner (usually after the kids went to bed). This worked very well for us until the kids spent a week with my parents (who WILL NOT get up from the dinner table without first having dessert--gee does that point to where my weight came from?). These days, we offer dessert an hour or so after we finish eating. DS seems to want it daily but the rest of us are hit and miss (I usually skip it).

2--Although I grew up in the clean plate era, I did not enforce this with my kids. If we served it family style, I did tend to lean toward the "you took it, now you have to eat it" plan, but I usually served it for them. I stressed very early on that you cannot simply look at a food and declare that you didn't like it. It had to be tasted first--and more than that, it had to be a full bite and fully chewed and swallowed. Then, and only then, the child could declare whether or not the food was edible (usually it was--I tended to fix things most kids would/should like). If they truly didn't like it, they were not forced to eat it. One weird thing my son didn't like was sauces and gravies. Imagine mashed potatoes with a turkey dinner and no gravy!!! Or chicken and dumpling without the sauce. He seriously gagged with sauces (but no more).

3--if the kids had a hankering for something, we'd have that for dinner one day. I usually prepared my menus on the weekend and would ask the kids what they might like that week to eat. It usually helped that they were included in the decision making. Then if they had a problem with what they chose, I would lay into the guilt trip (you wanted it, you should eat it). It usually worked. These days, they still get a say from time to time, but one other thing that worked with DS who was always the pickiest was having him help prepare the meal. I remember I was fixing something when he was about 4 or 5 that I had doubts that he would like. Oh, yeah, it was broccoli and I had a "special sauce" that my Mom used to make for broccoli that I knew he'd like on his broccoli, but since it was a sauce, I was skeptical. So I had him help me make the sauce. He was so proud of the sauce that he ate it and the broccoli. Shortly after that, he proclaimed himself to be a vegetarian so it was helpful he was now eating broccoli and cauliflower. He still loves them both (but nowadays without the sauce! LOL).

Now that both kids are older (DD is 16 and DS is 12) I am so proud to say that they will try anything at least once. DD recently went to China with her high school band and they ate traditional Chinese food while they were there. She came home and said that some of her friends refused to eat a lot of what they were served. (Food was served family style--dishes laid out on a lazy Susan and you served yourself.) She said that there were some kids that subsisted on rice a lot of the time. She was actually mad at them! She said she tried EVERYTHING (including the fish which she hates). She liked just about everything. She'd take enough to taste it and if she liked it, she'd take more. DS has gone to cooking camp and often helps me in the kitchen. He really has fun with it. Even DD declares (every once in a while) that she wants to fix us something and she gets mad if I even offer to help her. It's a nice break!

As for tantrums, I'm sure I had a few, but it's been so many years that I really can't remember. They must have been few and far between. I do remember that when DD was about 2, DH and I ate dinner too late for her, so I'd feed her earlier and then when we had dinner (which was just before her bedtime) we'd have her sit with us and we'd give her small pieces of our food for her to try. If she didn't want it, that was fine.

Good luck! Remember, this, too shall pass. One day you'll look back and chuckle at the memories!

I'm another with no kids, but I remember a lot of rules from growing up. (remember, I was a kid in the 50's)

* We always ate dinner as a family. You had to have a really good reason not to be there.

* Once we were old enough to understand, we were allowed to have one food we didn't have to eat. Mine was - and is! - liver. Ewwww. My poor sister couldn't ever decide and consequently ended up having to eat everything. My mom would cook liver and have my grandparents over, since my grandmother didn't eat it either, so she and I had something else.

* We were part of the clean plate generation. And I remember more than one occasion when I was at the table long after everyone else. (Also having to finish some watermelon when I was sick - and I still won't eat it after throwing it up for what seems like hours)

* We only had dessert for special occasions, though there was always fruit available. My DH grew up having dessert with every meal, and it took me years to break him of the habit. He still often has something sweet in the evening.

After 4th grade I was in charge of dinner, though my mom set the menus for a few more years. Both my sister and I learned to cook well while we were still in grade school. By early high school we did all the planning and shopping as well.

Oh I remember too that when my sister's son was in grade school he never wanted to eat, or only sweets. The doctor told her not to force him, that he'd eat when he got hungry, and to offer him only "healthy snacks." Can't say that it worked any better than any other method....

gravy - ick I hate gravy. To me it is like rendered fat...oh yeah ....

At lunch - since she eats better at lunch I usually dish out about 1/2 the portion of the main dish that I know she likes (yogurt, mac & cheese, grilled cheese whatever) and let her pick her fruit and veggie and she has to eat 1/2 her fruit and veggie before she can have more of the main dish.

But HOW do you make them take 1 bite. That is where we get stumped. She ....just....wont. She wouldnt at 6 months, she wont now (she wouldnt ever take a bottle either.....stubborn thing) -truthfully I think except tomatoes she has liked everything she ever tried, but she just wont try anything.

ennay~I don't know how I did it. I remember calmly explaining and reasoning with them and in some cases (not all) it worked. As they got older, they were both more willing to try the one bite. Maybe when they were really little I didn't fix as many varied things--just things that I knew they would like. And if I knew they didn't like it, I'd either not give it to them or give them an itty bitty taste of it, hoping that they'd get used to it. I do remember having them sit and sit while I waited for them to try things. I also explained that if they tried it right away, it would taste better because it was still warm. Some things do taste worse when cold!

I know that a couple staples for us when they were young were may homemade mac and cheese (I've never had any complaints from anyone on this) and just about anything Mexican. We'd order pizza--the kids would get pepperoni or 1/2 that and 1/2 cheese and we'd get the loaded one. Salads were generally pretty bland--not too much in the way of veggies. We've sure come a long way since those days. But then, that's what my DH and I refer to as "back when we were poor." We lived paycheck to paycheck and we simply didn't buy something if we knew the kids wouldn't eat it--and that included a lot of things!

Hi everyone, I don't have any children so I don't have any advice from personal experience but how about creating a calendar and each day you put a green sticker if your child has eaten vegetables and a red sticker if they have eaten a certain # servings of fruit. Each week if there are at least 7 stickers (this number should vary according to the child's current intake, even 1 sticker should be rewarded!), they get to pick out a small toy or movie rental? Instead of rewarding with dessert? Or the reward could be something they don't usually do but love to do. I guess it will vary according to the child and may not work with young toddlers but just an idea as the child gets older.

Also, have any of you heard of Missy Chase Lapine? She was the former publisher of Eating Well Magazine and recently wrote the book The Sneaky Chef: Simple Strategies for Hiding Healthy Foods in Kids' Favorite Meals.

Here's a quote from the Sneaky Chef website:

The website is pretty interesting, there's some sample recipes and "Ask the Sneaky Chef Blog." I actually might use the recipes to incorporate more veggies in my own diet, lol. There's a recipe that says you puree carrots and sweet potatoes and can add it to anything. The website suggests adding it to homemade pizza & muffins.

Here's the link: http://www.thesneakychef.com

I realize that by hiding the healthy foods, the child is not really learning that they truly need the nutrients that fruit/vegetables provide but I think this is definitely a step up from not eating anything healthy at all. Better for it to be disguised than to be smooshed to the corner of the plate, right?

Oh I don't think there is any problem with sneaking good food in. But I don't understand why anyone would try to hide blueberries. My kids almost come to blows over blueberries. My son prefers them to chocolate or candy. Fruit is magic in my house.

I am another one of those with staples. I am lucky that my kids like many many things. Yogurt, cottage cheese (2 year old not 9 year old) black beans, whole wheat pasta, lentils, tuna...even tofu. Most veggies are ok (more or less) with them they both like chard and carrots though..so I have my leafy green and yellow.

And they will both eat plain oatmeal with milk and cinnamon. I don't even eat it this way. Raisins are considered an extra special treat. I am not sure how this happened...it doesn't seem quite normal but its true.

If my kids weren't so flexible I would probably sneak more and give them a multivitamin to be safe. I do have rules about manners and we eat at the table most of the time.