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Old 04-11-2007, 05:06 PM   #256  
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Hi All, Glad to see all the new faces. We're still in Colo. and it has been snowing!!!!!!!!! The altitude really gets to me. Today, after 3 days, I feel a little better. This is a really good way to lose your appetite. We'll stop and see relatives in NE on the way home and hope to be home Fri. night, Lord willing. There is another big storm coming here but we hope we can get out. We heard that there is a blizzard in WI today, too. Winter is sure hanging around. My son and DIL are reading The Overfed Head and really enjoying it. They are both 6 ft. and are always dieting. Hope this helps them.
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Old 04-11-2007, 07:04 PM   #257  
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Hello, all!

I'm new to this group, so here's a bit about my diet goals and issues: I'm trying to count calories, but I run into quite a few problems when I eat out, which is often. First, I get annoyed that I can't perfectly count the calories (like, I could with a labelled product). Then, I decide, since I can't count, I won't worry about it. I usually end up overeating, splurging on dessert, etc. Finally, sometimes I'm good after the meal, but sometimes I let one big meal turn into another meal, a second dessert, etc.

I am trying to control this cycle by allowing myself 1-2 "cheat meals" during the week and promising that I'll be good the rest of the time. But there's still the problem of how to count calories if I go to a restaurant and have a HEALTHY meal. I tend to be a perfectionist, and I hate it when my calorie counts aren't perfect. It makes me obsess over the food (even more than I already do).

So, with all that background, I am thinking I need to look at plans that don't include counting ANYTHING -- no calories, no points. I wonder if intuitive eating might work for me.

I've been doing a little research and wondered if anyone has read "Intuitive Eating." Is this book helpful for people who don't have eating disorders?

I have the occassional binge and I tend to be obsessed with food (right now, fitness and diet is my "hobby"), but I'm fairly sure I'm not at the level of an eating disorder.

Thanks for any advice and help!
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Old 04-11-2007, 08:03 PM   #258  
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Hi Poppins!
I've done the calorie counting, so I totally know what you mean about restaurants and eating out and kind of well.. binging. That's one reason I'm trying the Intuitve eating out. Also, I was getting somewhat obsessive about the calories too. Sometimes I wouldn't eat for a long time because I blew all my calories in the morning or I would "save" them up for the evening. It just seemed far from healthy, both physically and mentally speaking.

You should read Intuitive Eating and see what you think. I thought it was a great book and I've read a million diet type books. This is very different! It's refreshing to read something that focuses on staying mentally healthy and exploring why we use food emotionally. I've started journalling when I notice I'm eating even though I'm not hungry. It just seems like a much more natural way of eating and actually learning to deal with emotions.

I think lots of the people around here recommend the Overfed Head which covers the same concepts. I haven't read it, but I plan on picking it up in the near future.
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Old 04-11-2007, 08:08 PM   #259  
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Hi Poppin, My favorite book is The Overfed Head by Rob Stevens. I have read a lot of IE books including the one you mentioned and this book is the least complicated of them all. There is a British book called Beyond Chocolate that I would like to read but it is pretty expensive to get is shipped to the U.S. If you are young (I'm 58 and have a real long diet history), IE should work great for you. I feel if I hadn't spent so many years dieting I would not be overweight.
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Old 04-11-2007, 08:36 PM   #260  
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Hello all! I've had a pretty fair week as far as mindful eating goes, but it's been tricky since my fiance is visiting right now. We tend to spend a lot of time eating out and talk a LOT, which means I tend to forget what I'm eating and just finish whatever's in front of me! I still log my food and have a measure of my calorie intake/output through the bodybugg program, so I can see that I'm not really "hurting" myself calorically (which is a far cry from beating myself up as I used to do), but it's not really eating according to my body. Today we hit a lunch buffet at one of my favorite Indian places - amazing food, and I took a small scoop of each of my favorites. I kind of spaced out when eating, and then returned for a second plate because we were chatting and I didn't feel like breaking the conversation. On a "diet" mentality, I still was within a reasonable calorie limit, but I ate beyond the point of satisfaction and that's not what I'm working for. It's really rather interesting to see how my mindset can shift pretty smoothly from obsessive calorie-counting to really reading my body!

Thankfully, today was an anomaly, instead of the other way around - I've been doing quite well at listening to my body, eating when I was hungry and not beyond the point of satiation. Easter dinner with my family was delicious, and I found I was quite satisfied and didn't feel at all deprived, even though I didn't eat nearly as much as I normally would have! Bonus - I didn't feel uncomfortably full and need to lie down and nap like the rest of the family!

As for books on intuitive/mindful eating - I've been through a pretty good panel of them! My personal favorite is "The 'Rules' of Normal Eating" by Karen Koenig - a great overview of the basic premise, along with CBT (cognitive-behavior therapy) methods to analyze and retrain your thinking to figure out what and why you feel about food. I love analytical stuff, so the fact that this really helped me to consider reasons instead of just accepting the theory places it above many others. I've also ready "Intuitive Eating" by Tribole/Resch, "Overcoming Overeating" by Hirschmann, "Life is Hard, Food is Easy" by Spangle, and "If I'm so Smart, Why Can't I Lose Weight?" by Castillo. All make very good points and are useful resources - it's mostly a matter of finding what speaks to you best. Most of the stuff I apply to my daily life comes from the Koenig book (which I keep re-reading about once a month) along with a good handful from the Castillo (though it's a little touchy-feely for my taste at times). I also recently picked up the "Beck Diet Solution" and the "Overfed Head" book mentioned above - both seem fairly decent so far, as well. The Beck book isn't exactly an IE line of thinking, but it also uses CBT methods of "self-talk" to work on the thinking side of weight loss and healthy eating (some of it is decidedly non-IE, pushing mind-over-body ideas, but I've still picked up a few interesting bits from it).

One more thing - I'm a daily weigher, too! I was always obsessive about following a weekly weigh-in, trying to starve myself the day before "weigh in" in order to see better results, even if I know it's not real. As it is, I find it interesting to see the trends over time, and to analyze what happens when I eat extra sodium (like the last two days) or more fresh produce, etc. I can see the trends over the course of a few weeks to months as my weight comes down without obsessing over a given number. I know that a 3 pound gain overnight is no more "real" than a 3 pound loss, and it's an interesting way to stay in touch with my body. The scale and the bodybugg (which measures my real-time calorie burn) are tools that help me learn about my body now, instead of trying to "punish" it through agressive diet/weight-loss strategies.
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Old 04-12-2007, 04:57 AM   #261  
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Hello all!

I had a great day yesterday - felt like I really listened to myself.

We had some bananas that were completely squishy to eat up, so I made banana flapjacks. I knew I was going to make them before I got home, so when I was hungry I did a load of dry-roasted veggies in the oven and had them for tea. A couple of hours later I was hungry, so finished the veggies off while I was making flapjacks, and once they were cool, VOILA I was hungry enough for flapjacks And I've just had one for breakfast

I feel like I shouldn't nibble on IE. Sometimes if I'm just a little bit hungry then I'll eat a few grapes, or dates or an apple of a biscuit, then wait again until I realise that I'm REALLY hungry and go and have something to eat. I'm not sure this nibbling is really helping me. I think perhaps I should just wait until I'm a little hungrier and eat something substantial. What do you girls think?

Oh yeah, and this morning I was very tempted to weigh myself, and I said, "Will this ruin my day if I'm the same or heavier than last time?" and the answer was yes so I decided to leave the scales where they are
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Old 04-12-2007, 11:38 AM   #262  
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Hi 2frus. I wonder about nibbling, too. Haven't figured that one out yet. I have lost about 10lb since the first of the year and I think my appetite is less. How do you make roasted veggies? I have never thought about putting bananas in pancakes. Good idea.
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Old 04-12-2007, 04:35 PM   #263  
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Hi everyone,
I'm still sick, but feeling a bit better. Nothing sounds appealing to eat right now and when I eat something, it doesn't taste that good. I'm used to being fickle and indecisive in other areas of my life, but not with food. When I ask myself, "What do I really want to eat?", it's tough to answer. I'm hungry, but I don't really want anything. I'm sure this will change when my sinuses don't feel like they're full of lead.


Theresa
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Old 04-13-2007, 04:57 AM   #264  
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I am trying not to nibble any more. I put some falafel on last night that only took about 7ish minutes to cook and I was so hungry. But I just wandered around the house for a while rather than waiting by the oven in the kitchen and helping myself to stuff out of the cupboards.

Also last night I had some tablet, which was really horrid! Instead of being smooth and creamy, it was all grainy. So I put my other piece away for another time. Then in the middle of the night (yes I AM bonkers) I ate the other piece and it was just as bad, so I am going to throw the bag away.

I've just started doing this thing where I write down my favourite food of that day. Yesterday it was a chicken and cheese salad sandwich. Despite having eaten chocolate, chocolate biscuits, flapjack etc etc I'm slightly surprised about that.

Theresa hope you feel better soon.
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Old 04-13-2007, 09:57 AM   #265  
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Hey everyone finally feeling ok. Eating seems to have returned to "normal". Ulapie hope your feeling better.

Since my schedule is finally pretty normal I have gotten in all my working out this week for the first time in a while. Hoping to make up the 3 days I missed and hit my goal. No idea why I am so obsessed with this. My TOM is coming and I am hyper aware of any changes in mood or appetite since the last 2-3 months it has thrown me for a loop. I think I am also a little more focused because I am so close to a mini goal. I haven't been under 320 in probably 8 year or so. Weigh in is Monday and i am going to my parents. So we'll see. Either way I don't think I'll be upset just a lesson learned.

2frus I have to say I love reading your experiments in eating each day and I really need to buy you a drink, that putting down the fork between bites has been VERY helpful.
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Old 04-13-2007, 10:11 AM   #266  
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MAN! I feel a bit silly, although I'm trying not to berate myself too much, but I had lunch at about 12, then went for a walk and was feeling all smug and satisfied and I'd sat down at my desk and my tummy gives one of those little false-hunger pangs and something just went "click" and I ate 3 cookies and a flapjack before I thought, "Hang on a minute..... what are you doing?" And I'd had a really great morning too, although looking back I think I probably let myself get hungrier than usual this morning.

At least I won't be hungry for a while! Gah!
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Old 04-13-2007, 11:24 AM   #267  
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I just finished Overfed Head, and I'd definitely recommend it! It's very similar in application to my personal favorite (The "Rules" of Normal Eating), though a much lighter read and simpler theory. I'm probably going to pass it on to my fiance if he shows any interest - I think it'd be a better intro for him than some of the more meaty touchy-feely IE books out there. Especially since it's written by a guy.

However, something the book pointed out is the need to completely abandon all "dieting" habits, including food logging and calorie counts. While I fully understand the idea behind this (leaving the "rules" behind), I've found that I can log my food and still be non-judgemental about it - it helps me to truly keep track of my hunger to know that anything I eat will be registered into my software... I don't refuse myself anything I'm actually hungry for, but I do take the time to weigh whether I'm eating something due to hunger or stress or boredom because I've gotten in the habit of pausing before eating to log my food. I also enjoy seeing the trends over time and weighing them against how my body feels - when I eat a higher-protein breakfast before or after my run and it reflects in my time, I can see the benefit in keeping hardboiled eggs in the fridge. Some days/meals I eat more, sometimes I eat less, and I can see how it all averages out over time.

I have no problem with logging my food, observing my calorie intake and output, and weighing myself daily without losing compassion for myself and my well-being. Once I take the emotion away from these values, they become nothing but a data set that help me learn about my body.

I understand that some people really struggle with such measurements and need to completely do away with them to succeed in IE. But it surprises me how often every IE book I've read claims that it's "absolutely necessary" to throw out the scale and the food log and to refuse to do so is clinging to old habits and reflects a lack of commitment to IE. The same way that we can remove the emotional charge from eating without refusing to eat, I find I can remove the emotional charge from these other numbers and methods.

I'm curious - does anyone else still track their food and/or calories in some way, when eating intuitively? I would assume there are individuals that range from one end to the other, just like there is with weighing - there are some who can't weigh without judgment and choose to give it up, while others can weigh daily without affecting their mood. For me, they're all just numbers - they have no inherent "good" or "bad" quality. Am I less "committed" to IE by continuing to track my food without letting it influence my choices?
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Old 04-13-2007, 01:39 PM   #268  
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My favorite IE book is the overfed head. My favorite part is at the end when he says he doesn't have FAQ because he can't tell me how my body works.

I think you need to do what works for me. Me personally, need a guide to see how I am doing. In the beginning I was a little more tied to the scale because I just wanted to move period. Now I consider it a tool to help figure out where I am at, same way people measure.

Along with the IE I do the following.
Under 2000 calories a day.
get in some fruit and vegetables
drink water.

None of this is written in hard stone and generally I do it intuitively. There have been weeks where just about every meal was fruits or salad or vegetables. Then there are some where I really want meat or rice. The IE helps me figure portion control.

The water I drink pretty much exclusively. It annoyed me in the beginning th at I could burn up 300 calories with apple juice. When I crave something different I drink it, but water is pretty much what I stick to. No idea how many ounces I drink.

I can do a pretty good estimate of the calorie content of most thing and I am an avid label reader. Sometimes I might eat 1000-2000 calories in a sitting. I think I need to know that I am making that choice. It was kind of a shocker when I realized pre-IE I was eating 3000-4000 a day without blinking. You would think I would have had some kinda of clue.

Also I realize I am all about the numbers. I have a nice spreadsheet of weight loss, minutes worked out and so on. Again, it is a tool.

I honestly don't think I am the typical IE "dieter" but I don't think there is such a thing. The thing I LOVE is you can do it anyway you choose. There is really only two "rules" Eat when your hungry/stop when your satisfied. I can be on Atkins, WW, or counting calories and it still can be applied.

Ok, I am just plain rambling now.

Off the soapbox.





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Originally Posted by Rock Chalk Chick View Post

I have no problem with logging my food, observing my calorie intake and output, and weighing myself daily without losing compassion for myself and my well-being. Once I take the emotion away from these values, they become nothing but a data set that help me learn about my body.

I understand that some people really struggle with such measurements and need to completely do away with them to succeed in IE. But it surprises me how often every IE book I've read claims that it's "absolutely necessary" to throw out the scale and the food log and to refuse to do so is clinging to old habits and reflects a lack of commitment to IE. The same way that we can remove the emotional charge from eating without refusing to eat, I find I can remove the emotional charge from these other numbers and methods.

I'm curious - does anyone else still track their food and/or calories in some way, when eating intuitively? I would assume there are individuals that range from one end to the other, just like there is with weighing - there are some who can't weigh without judgment and choose to give it up, while others can weigh daily without affecting their mood. For me, they're all just numbers - they have no inherent "good" or "bad" quality. Am I less "committed" to IE by continuing to track my food without letting it influence my choices?
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Old 04-13-2007, 02:01 PM   #269  
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I think it's really interesting that you guys count calories while doing IE! I'm curious to know if you think of restricting your eating if you gain weight? Or, what happens if you hit your calorie limit early in the day and are then hungry at night? I felt like when I was counting calories, there were always times when I'd force myself to go hungry because of a number (my weight or calorie limit).
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Old 04-13-2007, 03:06 PM   #270  
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I try and and stay under 2000, but I don't really consider myself a calorie counter because there are plenty of time I go over, or eat something that I am not sure of how many calories I am eating. From my understanding calories counters measure all (or most food), each meal has a calorie value that adds up to the target calories limit.

While I try and stay under 2000. I couldn't tell you how many calories I ate in the last couple of days. Today I went to the whole food buffet. I decided to try the dessert buffet and had a spoonful of pudding, some kinda of key lime cake thing, tandoori chicken, spoonful of pad thai noodle, and chicken saagwala (indian for spinach). or and some biryani rice.

I ate what I wanted and threw the rest out. no idea how many calories it was. I am going to guess maybe 600-800, but I could be wrong and I'm ok with that. When I go home I'll have three baked chicken wings and some spinach. maybe or I'll have some tuna fish, or a 100 calorie back, or just spinach or I'll go to applebees and have chicken and riblets (2000 calories btw) . I'm not eating to make sure I get in enough calories and if I go over 2000 I don't beat myself up. I am eating because I'm hungry and I am stopping when I'm not.

About your question. If your hungry eat if you're not don't eat. Listen to your body. If you're not eating out of hunger. Why are you eating? I don't get the whole I have x number of calories so 1. I have to eat to my limit and 2. I can't go over the limit once I get there.

If you're not hungry don't eat. I think the feeling of hunger exists for a reason. If you satisfied stop. The feeling of satiation (sp?) exists for a reason.

If I have a gain (last month I think I lost and gained the same 3lbs 3 times)
I look back and I'm honest with myself about my eating. My TOM is usually when my eating goes wacky. I look back and see eating 3 pints of ice cream when I was full after the first one was probably a bad idea (just an example). Going to my parents house who believe eating is a social event, is also usually a pretty big culprit.

Hope there is an answer in there somewhere.


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Originally Posted by ulapie View Post
I think it's really interesting that you guys count calories while doing IE! I'm curious to know if you think of restricting your eating if you gain weight? Or, what happens if you hit your calorie limit early in the day and are then hungry at night? I felt like when I was counting calories, there were always times when I'd force myself to go hungry because of a number (my weight or calorie limit).
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