I have never used exogenous ketones.

My understand g is that for weight loss, they can help you transition to a keto- adapted state.

As for using them long term for weight loss, from what little I know about them, I agree with you.

They are reportedly good for other things: mood management, performance enhancement.

I have limited knowledge about them.

I agree: production of your own ketones is the way to weight loss. That is achieved through low carb moderate protein way.

My internist told me that ketogenic diets have their effect by how the ketones act on our brain, suppressing our appetites and allowing us to tolerate very low calories. The actual fat-burning happens with any reduced calorie diet. As to whether IP spares muscle mass, the diet has not been scientifically tested, so all we have is their website, which is for-profit so by definition not scientific. And anecdotal testimony from others. While it might all be correct, it's important to exercise caution when generalizing someone's own experience or IP, Inc.'s claims to any individual. A case in point is that IP claims to "reset" the pancreas--not validated by empirical evidence anywhere. Dr. Chan may have an MD but it doesn't mean he is publishing scientific fact. just my 2 cents, and I should say I love IP!

I don't agree with your internist.

A keto diet changes the body from being a sugar burner to a fat burner.

Sugar burners struggle with hunger because the body can't store sugar sources. It stores sugar as fat. So they always need to go to external sources for fuel.

A fat burner on the other hand can readily access fat stores. There is not the same desperate hunger because the body -- once keto-adapted -- has the utility to access fat stores.

Hunger is annihilated not because the brain is fooled by ketones but because the body is assured of an accessible fuel source: body fat stores.

A body producing ketones is a sign that fat burning is happening.

Once one becomes more keto-adapted, ketone readings might go down only because the body becomes more efficient at using them for fuel, too.

And since Dr. chan's work, there continues to be a lot more scientific research being done... by MDs, physiologists, nutrionists, sports performance experts.

I agree-- caution needed when generalizing one' down experience.

Eg, lemon juice kicks me out of keto. Not everyone is so sugar sensitive

This is an interesting explanation of ketosis & its effect on hunger. To be fair to my internist, I should clarify that he said ketones are a mild euphoric. :) I found in other reading that they are thought to suppress appetite. There sure is a lot of research being conducted on this topic.

Here are some things I found interesting:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25402637
Do ketogenic diets really suppress appetite? A systematic review and meta-analysis.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25698989
Ketosis, ketogenic diet and food intake control: a complex relationship.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23632752
Ketosis and appetite-mediating nutrients and hormones after weight loss.

Thanks for sharing all these! They look interesting! I am going to hunker down and read!

The euphoric effect-- interesting, too. A friend who does fasting says she experiences mild euphoria sometimes at some points during the fast.

The body produces ketones while fasting. I wonder if that explains her euphoria.

Sidebar: I like listening to podcasts. Some of my favs about ketogenic nutrition are:

Ketovangelist

Livin la vida Low Carb

Keto Talk with Jimmy Moore and the Doc