Frustrated with IP
 

Hi!

I’ve been on the IP protocol for 21 weeks (started in October) and I am about ½ way to my goal. And I’m struggling. I feel like the diet has stopped working. My typical day:

Breakfast
Liquid Chocolate drink
Lunch
Dark choc pudding
Cucumber
Dinner
Chicken or Steak
2 c veggies (asparagus, cabbage, broc, spinach) usually cooked with garlic
Snack
Lemon choc squares

I drink between 60 to 100 ounces of water daily, about ½ with sugar free, kool-aid squeeze flavors because I’m really really tired of water.

Sometimes on weekend, I eat the chicken patties with spinach or cabbage for lunch, but that’s the only variance really. Supplements I take are the Omega 3, multivit, cal-mags, potassium, and last week the doc put me on the dietery enzymes. I don’t drink coffee, but noticed that the caffeine helps the program, so I’m taking a caffeine supplement as well. My weight loss was great up until about Christmas (2-3lbs a week) but has slowed to a crawl 1lb for the last 2 months. The inches haven’t been moving either.
This week with the enzymes, I gained back 2.5lbs. I also started working out (mile jog & 10-15min of focused toning on arms, legs or core), but I don’t think the weight gain is due to the working out, I haven’t been doing it long enough to make that kind of an impact. I’m getting super frustrated and honestly at the point in the game, it’s hard to stay on the program knowing I’m not losing any more weight than if I was off the program and following a program that didn’t cost $100 a week. I went off the wagon for a couple of days now (this is after my feelings of it not working, so this is not the reason…I just don’t see the point in continuing until I can get a fresh approach), so it’s just compounding the problem because I’m not eating like I’m supposed to (not eating horribly, but I’m probably out of ketosis).

Thinking about breaking off the program entirely for a while, and coming back to finish, but I’m lacking the motivation since it doesn’t seem to be doing as advertised. I feel run down, irritable, and impatient. I want to quit. I want to eat ‘normal’ again. I want out of this body. I know weight loss takes time, but if I stuck to the program, this was supposed to be a faster avenue.

I’ve lost 48lbs, 15 was from diet/exercise I was doing on my own before I started the program, and the last 33 was from IP. Can anyone help? Give me ideas? Words of encouragement?

Thanks!

Funny you mention this right now... I too had the same problem about 20 weeks in and it has not improved for the past 20 weeks. Definitely feeling the same way, but its not that I want to eat normally, its that I want to see results when eating OP.

Even though I am frustrated, I keep telling myself to keep on because any other way will not work.

Sending good vibes your way.

Hi,

The 190-170s were the slowest patch for me too. I did not go off program, although I was frustrated. I kept going because even one pound was a successful loss. Slowly between Jan.and June, the rest of the pounds came off until I reached goal.

It sounds like you have diet fatigue. To combat this, I tried different recipes, new vegetables and IP products. Switched things up often. I also read a lot of threads and it became clear that many people struggle to get back OP after a break.

You have put in so much work at this point, I hope that you can stick out this slow patch. The IP journey is not a direct line, sometimes it gets a little messy on the way. I can honestly say that other WL programs/losses have not been sustainable for me.

On IP, I found it helpful to have a visual of every pound I lost, counting down to my goal. I posted in one thread every day to focus on my plan. With my wonderful support system here, we made list of the changes weight loss was having on our lives and I rewarded myself (with awesome stuff) for each 5-10 pound goal.

Hope some of this helps :hug:

Congratulations on your losses so far! You've done amazing!!

You say that your weight loss has slowed to a crawl of 1lb per week. This is still 1 lb per week!! I know it's frustrating at times because you were used to losing so much but it is true that as you get to a lower weight you will lose slower. Sure, you could go off IP, and maybe you'll lose weight...but I'd imagine you'll be spending a lot of time meal planning and exercising to get that same 1 lb/week loss. I'd be worried about going off the program and coming back as you may not be able to get into it mentally. Perhaps you should spend some time journalling (not food but feelings) and try to get in a more positive mind state to help you continue with the diet until the end.

Working out at the start will definitely cause water retention. When you start to use muscles that you haven't been for a while they will need time to adjust and strengthen. With this comes water retention. Keep that in mind.

I can completely understand what you are going through. I've been experiencing the same internal battle lately as to whether I should just quit now or not. I think quitting now would just cheat me of my happiness so I'm sticking with it. This isn't easy, no weight loss method ever is, it's a mental game and a physical one...probably more mental than anything. It's worth it. But it's your body, and it's your life and I don't want to tell you what to do. You'll figure out deep down what's best for you, I'm just voicing my opinion and hopefully it will help you make a choice.

I've only been doing IP for 4.5 weeks but I have done Atkins & low carb variations for 13 years - one thing that jumps out at me is that people (myself included) ran into sensitivity to artificial sweeteners.
Also, I believe aspartame is a no-no with IP: http://calorielab.com/foods/fruit-fl...vor/32/14127/1
& again, with any diet it is a YMMV substance. You said weight loss has been stagnant for 2 months...when did you start using the kool aid?

Personally, I would stop the kool aid additive for at least a week to see if the scale moves again. If that does nothing, I gather you have a coach...maybe it's time to shake things up - especially with the addition of exercise. You may need to add the 4th packet, for example.

Good luck!

It's the exercise and the way your metabolism is trying to balance IP with it.

Trust me. I have noticed the exact same thing since Couch to 5K ramped up from small run intervals (8-10 mins) to the longer ones (25-28 mins). I was losing steadily until that time. In the last 2 weeks I have gained and lost the same 3lbs over and over and over again.

While muscle and fat weigh the same, there is a difference in the volume (size) so if your fat loss is being masked by muscle gain this is exactly what you will see. Muscle needs more water to function AND to repair after strenuous exercise. This is why you see gains. It isn't sodium retention it is muscle recovery.

Secondary to that, if you are running every day then you will need to increase your complex carbs (think sweet potato, brown long grain rice) to trigger a small insulin release which will help with protein synthesis for muscle recovery. You don't need very much, but it sounds like your body may be slowing down the loss because you are taking in too few calories/carbs and it thinks you are going into starvation.

Don't go mad, just add either a tbsp of complex carb OR an extra packet in. Your list looks good, but it seems like you're missing 2 cups of veggies per day if that is your typical intake. Make sure you don't cheat yourself out of those, they are important.

The other thing that I've found with the running is that I need to make sure to do cooldown stretches afterwards. This not only aids with taking the tension off the muscle (and stops cramping) but it seems to help with carb burning post-exercise.

This is one of the reasons most IP coaches don't like exercise in P1. They aren't trained to teach you how to combat the effects and how to handle the pyschological issues of slower or stalled loss that we IPers experience when we perceive that the diet is no longer working.

If you feel that you need a break, take one. Just make sure that you don't go back to a "normal" diet that is full of fats and excess carbs. That way lies a return to all that you have lost, and it's SO not worth it.

If the IP foods are boring you, start changing some of the packets out for real food equivalents. Put more eggs in, change your veggies to more leafy green (think red chard, tuscan kale, mustard greens) ones that have lots of antioxidants. Squeeze in your restricted in something that you would regard as a treat.

Tonight I am splurging (went light on veggies at lunch so I could) by making an IP compliant version of cottage pie:-

- 93% lean ground beef
- 1c cauliflower (mashed with 1tsp butter from daily oil allowance)
- 1/2c tuscan kale
- 1/4c leek
- 1/2c baby bella mushroom
- 1/4c zucchini
- 1 tbsp Heinz 1-carb tomato ketchup
- garlic pepper
- cayenne pepper

Edit: Also making a side salad of lettuce, 4 cherry tomatoes halved, and a couple of raw red onion rings.

This is going to be so rich it'll feel like cheating! :)

Stay strong, you can push through this slowdown. This is the psychological side of the diet, and where so many people give up and fall back into their old, bad eating habits. You can do it. :)

I've been using the koolaid since the beginning, it isn't aspartame - its sucralose, and it's been coach-approved. :)

I was thinking I would stop that and the caffeine - it's new with just a couple of weeks usage, although it really helped at first.

I'll look into the 4th packet option as well, it might be with the exercise I'm going to require more then what I'm getting.

Thank you for the advice everyone - It's good to know that the retention might be due to the workouts, and I just need to work past that initial hump.

And diet fatigued is about as close to a description of how I feel as I could ever get, so I think that's right on the money. I'll have a look around and see how to shake it up.

I agree you may need to shake things up with your food, I've been trying to as I'm finding the last 10lbs really slow (I've also upped my exercise routine), and I've read that it can help get passed a stall. You don't have to go off the rails or anything, but maybe get a little more fat into your diet for a few days as well. Just small healthy "extras" in moderation in addition to the plan, and the go back completely OP. Also, if you choose to go off the diet I think it's still recommended that you phase off properly so your body restarts or adjust better (someone can call me on it if I am completely wrong :) )

Whatever you choose, good luck!

You're allowed to count cucumber toward your veggies, and some days I do, but it's on the "unlimited" list for a reason: it's mostly water!

I definitely would suggest swapping out the cucumber for 2 cups of some other veggie, to see if that helps!

Good luck! :cheer3:

Another option, if you think you really can't go any longer, is to go to phase 2. I lost weight during phase 2 in a greater amount than I had been losing in phase 1 (and I've seen others who experienced the same). When you are done with phase 2, you can decide whether you want to go ahead to phase 3, to stay on phase 2 or, having shaken things up, are ready to go back to phase 1. But I echo determineddieter's advice -- whatever you do, don't quit without phasing off. It's the #1 reason people put weight back on. Good luck, whatever you decide. And congrats on your success -- you've done great!!!

Sorry - what I looked up showed sucralose :o

I've done caffeine without issue from the get-go (coffee) without issues - but a supplement of caffeine seems...odd (to me)

There are some really awesome recipes on the threads - great ways to shake up your staples, like cauli-rice, and maybe discover some new veggies - lately chayote has become 'hot' around here :)

Oh, and on the subject of caffeine. Avoid taking it before you run, please. It raises the heart rate, and unless you are a slow runner your heart rate will spike. Leave at least an hour after coffee before cardio exercise. Strength training is fine. :)

That was one thing that I was warned about by both doctor and nutritionist. Stay safe.

Many things can be going on.
How long ago has it been since you got a decent carbohydrate load that would accumulate glucose stores. A metabolic adaptation could have very well happened. Hidden carbohydrates, or eating a product that can still stimulate insulin. How many alt products are you using? Are you sure they are in dose and compliance with P1? Do you know your blood butyrate level? Ketosticks aren't best measure for some. Blood ketone is accurate.
How does your calorie intake compared to a calorie counter. How close is the maintenance vs your intake? You kind of answer your own question if you don't think you are in Ketosis. Did you stall before breaking protocol?
It could likely mean your above your maintenance intake. primarily in carbohydrates and total calories. enzymes will increase your kcal and that number is literally magic because you have no way to know/ measure what the level of fermentation in the colon from fiber those enzymes will create. This process creates energy for your body in the form of short chain fatty acids. But it isn't a bad thing but has to be recognized as an actual event.
If it was me I would look at the below information and see how it sets. Then get real strict for a couple of weeks, then after 14 days get a glucose load. Probably a sweet potato just as to not maybe starting a very negative habit. Then go back to atleast another week to 10 days before breaking the diet with another load. The dietary disruption stops metabolic adaptation. Try that a couple of times before sacking the whole thing. If more than the diet like a emotional or boredom type trigger. Non of this is a help really. The keto/ lcd may be the most effective for losing weight fast but long term compliance is its largest downfall.

None of these are IP specific but are more broadly either Keto, or CKD (cyclic keto).
http://www.ruled.me/ketogenic-diet-w...loss-plateaus/

Here are a couple of podcast that cater to women and a VLCD.
They do promote cycling but some nuggets may be applicable and might assist.
http://body.io/body-io-fm-01-introdu...-diet-fitness/
http://body.io/body-io-fm-02-common-...-back-loading/

Jimica was a very nice addition for me. I didn't relize chayote was also. Will have to look at ways to utilize it.

Yes - jicama also! I couldn't even pronounce it a month ago. Getting ready for a little bit raw with cinnamon.

I also experienced..
 

I also experienced a dead zone, my coach moved me to the alternative for a couple of weeks (addition of one fruit, one carb and one dairy). No weight loss from Nov 2014 until 2 weeks ago.
At my last WI.... loss of 5lb.... but also measured-- bra band sports bra 52>fitted 38, muffintop down 3"-- I was too focused on scale numbers and mindlessly wearing the old stuff. I have since returned to phase 1 and cont with weight loss 1-3 pounds each week.
I also added green teas. Added "Water My Body" to make sure I was geting the water in.
Changing up the food intake helped "the brain interest in food" --added a modified Rain Forrest Cafe Slaw, chayote, even made Green Bean, "Cauli" tot casserole with gr. beef (mushroom soup pkt). Stews with roasted radish. My comfort food this past week because of the cold (in Central IL).... Ratatouille... over my protein.

I guess what I am saying is .... got to take the blinders off and really look at yourself with "NEW EYES" not the pair that still see you at the old weight.

Might be worth talking to your coach about moving to P2 or even P3 for a week or two.
The time I was most successful on IP I switched to P3 for about 10 days because I was on vacation. I worked out each morning, had the big breakfast and typically ate out for either lunch or dinner, but made sure my meal choices were still IP approved, or very close to. After returning from vacation I got back on P1 and dropped 4 lbs in the following 10 days. At the time, I was very close to goal so 4 lbs was a huge loss for me.

Did you stay on the alt program until you saw the loss and then switched back to P1 or did you do the alt program for 2 weeks only?

I ended up having to do the alternative program when I was losing weight, since I began not feeling well and weight/inch loss stalled as I got closer to my goal. My body just needed more food. Then I lost weight & inches through P2, 3 and even early Maintenance. You definitely need to add more vegetables that aren't 'free'. Use something with a bit more body to it, like the cauliflower mentioned. Or roasted peppers stuffed with other veggies, or try some turnip or rutabaga or cooked fennel bulb.
Wylothar is a great resource for learning healthy eating IP style while getting some exercise in. Hang in there... :hug:

Liana

You've gotten lots of different opinions

I have a couple of questions because I'm a little confused. Has your WL slowed to 1 lb per week or are you stalled at only 1 lb total for the entire 2 month period?

If basically no WL for the whole 2 months while being true to protocol ( before your cheat) I'd suggest asking your doctor about the need for a thyroid panel. Always rule our imbalances first. VLC diets are notoriously hard on thyroid. If that comes back okay, you might want to research Lyle McDonald and see what he says about carb cycling. You might just need to shake up your system.

Conversely, if this is a slowdown of 1 lb per week, ignore my previous comments. That is a normal part of the body acclimating to the plan and requiring fewer calories to function. WL slows as we get closer to goal.

Back on Track
 

Just wanted to give you all an update. I talked to my coach, and I have cut back on the cardio, to just a fast walk with some strength conditioning instead of running, and added a packet for the days that I work out.

I recommitted and have cut out the snacking I was doing, and I have cut back on the flavored drinks to 1 a day. And it's working!! Lost 4lbs last week! :carrot:

Thanks for the advice everyone! >180 here I come!

When I did IP in 2012/13 I started at 177lbs. Took forever to get to <155. Then for a solid 6 weeks my weight swirled around 153-151. I went nuts and postal!!!! Mainly because of the money issue. Close to $600 down the drain not counting the expensive protein and extra veggies and supplements. My coach at the time had me switch out my meals, dinner at lunch, breakfast at dinner, lunch at breakfast (or some combo like that). 100% compliant. Finally broke the barrier and it took a lot of time to get to 140.

Ok, yes i am back and this time have to lose even more... Took me 7 weeks to get back to my previous high weight. Big sigh. This coach has suggested I don't use stevia at all and see if my weekly loss improves. I drink upwards of a gallon of water a day. Wish me luck!!! And thanks for letting me vent.

WTG Ltg!!!!!!!!!!!! :broc: :broc: Really glad you were able to shake it up!

I am new to IP: list 8 lbs the first week and just had my weigh in today and lost another 6, so 14 in the first two weeks. Sounds great but when I looked at my print out in detail, I've list 11 of it as muscle. Is this typical in the first few weeks? Muscle is really important to me and I planned on doing some serious training after I got the fat off (I have a 4 month old so I haven't worked out hard in a while). My coach mentioned I'm now in fat burn mode so I get to start the bars. Does this mean the pounds will now start to be fat?? A little freaked out :)

The lean mass you lose (if you are going by the gadget used in the clinics to measure it) isn't necessarily muscle. It is anything in your body that is NOT fat. That means bone, organs, nerves, contents of your colon at that moment, etc. Don't get focused on that machine as they are notoriously unreliable. Are you losing inches, and/or improving your blood sugars & lipids? Remember at first you are depleting the glycogen from your muscles and the accompanying water that is held with it. THEN, you get to start the fat burning mode. Hang in there. Not all coaches are as well trained as some.

Liana

I would concur. That gadget and calculation are very unreliable. Best measure if find a consistent method of measuring and just stay with it. Mine was a belt I wear to this day.
The IP gimick machine tells me I am chronically dehydrated. I go to great lengths to get my water in. Years ago I got the precision nutrition program from dr. John Berardi and they recommended calipers and using the same person because it is the most consistent measure. http://www.precisionnutrition.com/me...entGuide-F.pdf Unless you have access to dexa scan you are ballpark at best.

But it is not impossible to lose muscle on IP. Depending on your body. It isn't a muscle sparring as they give pretense too because you are in massive calorie deficit (planned metabolic starvation essentially). That fact is the largest reason they say no working out is advertising. It is far easier to modify an input (what you eat) versus and a new input (working out) into a persons lifestyle. You can hurt your progress by taking in too much protein or working in wrong modalities while in IP.

Some real recent data coming out that for muscle growth you only need about .8 grams per pound of body weight. They used to say 1 to 1.5 grams per lb of lean body mass to gain muscle. New data is showing that really more than the case and many athletes are chronically over consuming protein.

I have to look up the post related to the podcast for referencing but Marks Daily Apple mentioned that even in ketosis your body only depletes about 20% of the glycogen out of the muscle while in ketosis. The body can create something like 140 grams of glycogen a day while in dietary ketosis.

Depending on your previous capacity and knowledge you can train pretty hard IMO. Especially if you work Power and strength. Not metabolic conditioning or LDC (long duration cardio). Plus growing muscle increases RMBR. Did you see the recent article out claiming being fat isn't the worst information about the modern human condition, it is the lack of muscle mass?

Jicama is my lifesaver!!! I am not a veggie lover and this saves the day!!! :-)

I am "new" to this group, although I've been stalking for a month. I have my 3rd weigh in tomorrow. First week I lost 3 pounds, second was 6 and we will see how tomorrow goes. I have stuck to the plan religiously and am a bit disappointed with my 9 pound loss. I know 9 pounds is 9 pounds but it seems like so many lose big numbers the first month and I'm not. My TOM came this morning so keeping my head up after weigh in might prove to be difficult. I am not giving up though. I feel better and jeans I could weigh 3 weeks ago are sagging. I guess I just wanted to introduce myself (Mary) and let you all know that all of your stories are inspirational and I love this website!

9 lbs in 2 weeks is big numbers... If you were doing Weight Watchers you might have lost half that amount.

So glad this worked for you! How long did you do the Alternative IP protocol to jumpstart your program?

I stalled on IP after having good results for 5 months. I was close to my goal and the scale stayed stuck for about 5 weeks. Because spring break was looming and after speaking with my coach I went into P2 and P3. I lost weight in P2 finally after being stalled for so long (about 4 pounds). Then I gained almost 4 pounds in P3 (those carbs!). But once I went to P4 and being on vacation I went down to one up pound. All about 2-3 pounds from my goal weight. I've been in P4 for about 2 weeks and have remained steady. My intent is to go back to P1 and lose the last 5 pounds which would put me below my goal weight but allow me to fluctuate 3-5 pounds. But, I will attest to shaking it up and adding in new things reset my body to allow me to continue to lose. I have not added in exercise yet either! I figure I will do that after my P1 stint.

Welcome Mary! I only lost that much in the first two weeks, and I thought that was huge. It was huge! I never lost that much in two weeks on any other diet program. My goal is an average of at least 2 lbs a week which is more than I ever lost on anything else. You are doing great. It's easy to be hard on ourselves, but seriously, your weight loss is fabulous. Also, I don't lose much during TOM so don't freak out about that. Last time was less than a pound, but I came back the very next week and lost over 5 lbs. Have a great week.

Wrong on several counts.

1. In the absence of carbohydrates and reduced fat intake the body will use protein to produce glycogen.
2. The above process puts a lot of pressure on the liver and the kidneys.
3. Excess protein is not good for anyone. Even professional bodybuilders know this.
4. Ideal Protein is a moderate or "sufficient" protein protocol. It aims for you to have between 0.5 and 0.8 of your body weight in grams of protein per day.
5. In order to repair muscle your body needs protein AND an insulin response. That insulin response is triggered by the blood glucose level being raised. Therefore carbs ARE necessary. The difference is in choosing the RIGHT type of carbs - complex ones - and combining them with a protein source to slow the rate at which the body absorbs them.
6. Even the Atkins diet, which traditionally followed these misguided principles, has now decreased the amount of recommended proteins & fats AND increased the amount of carbs.

We don't live in the dark ages, there is no need to emulate it.

Bloggers have the right to post anything they see fit, it doesn't make their opinion correct and certainly doesn't need to be propagated on a board which is already following a very macro specific diet already. I see no reference to any professional qualifications either in the medical or nutritional fields.

Best response to spam is to report it so it can be removed (as it was)

I did report it, after I saw the second and third post of the same subject matter. Unfortunately, I had already responded to the first one I saw. :)