Blech....glad I coughed out that post earlier because I get a little crazy. Now on to everyone....

Slipfree....I do hope things went better today in class. Go gentle on yourself, you're only human!!!!! Kids who push our buttons so stirringly tend to have a lot going on inside IMO (whether that's history of trauma/attachment issues, mildly on the spectrum, or other long-standing tough things that can be resistant to the typical interventions). As you stated, this is MOST certainly NOT about you! Hang in there and reward yourself for even the most minor successes with this class.

Maile....I hope you're work slows down and that your trip to Hawaii is for pleasure and not for health reasons (concerning your mom?).

Mars....I bet you will lose as you phase off! What do you feel your sticking point to finding a maintainable healthy WOE is? I feel that I often have so many things working against me......it's like being an eternal salmon!

Jenny....I hope you are feeling pain-free today! Haha...my hubby likes to look at the "cost" of my new WOE/living. We would both have a heart attack at the vast amount of money I used to spend on junk food!!!!

Deana....Welcome to the maintainers thread!

Hi,

Thank you all for the support, today was better. Think I will just take it one day at a time with this Gem. Today, I am thankful. To answer the questions, I did reach out for support to the VP and our psychologist. After 19 years of being a SP. Ed. Teacher, I have a good reputation for dealing with behavior. I think they were shocked by my reaching out for help.

Eve, I am pretty sure that he is ODD. Thank you for your insightful comments. Not sure about the whole metabolism slowdown, but I do know that free meals bring serious temp. water retention for me. I think it is a combo of the added carbs and sodium. I also feel your pain about your food schedule being changed. I do not like when that happens at all.

Maile, you may be right- if it is like this on a reg. basis. I will need counseling, lol. My counselor used to be Ben & Jerry and we have had a permanent separation. I hope you enjoy your visit with your daughter. Is school understanding about your need to go take care of your Mom?

Mars, I lost 5 more pounds during my phase off. Finding a balance is the work of maintenance. I think that having a weekly splurge during the holidays will be okay, since last year-I had none. I actually find that I like my extended family more when I do not drink, lessons learned on IP (lol)

Jenny, hope the Drs. fixed everything up. As for the cost, just remind DH that running keeps you happy and sane. When Mama is happy, everyone is happy and that is priceless.

Slipfree- love "when mama is happy everyone is happy and that is priceless", it is so true. I'm glad your day was better and you got some good support. I've been working in the field of Mental health for 17 years and it never gets easier.

Mars- I do have a foam roller and have been on it everyday. The good news it no longer makes me cry. That is good advice about length of leg. I've had orthotics but have been inconsist in using them. I lost in P2&P3as well. it sounds like you are ready for a change.

Eve- I appreciate you doing the research on metabolic rate, it's very interesting. Personally I feel like you can totally hold your own with John when he has comments to post. All I know is that your fat cells are just waiting to expand again after weightloss and that will be the battle for life. I look forward to you sharing more. Sounds like you had some aha moments on the weekend. I feel like I need to have a lot of structure around my eating to be successful. I usually have the whole day planned out the night before.

Yes I am becoming obsessed! Lol
After my fun day and p1 day I am finding it hard to eat above 1200 calories. I need to up it to 1500 at least.

Yes! It's like P1 resets my appetite! I did a P1 day today and am fortunate to experience no hunger, even with exercise. I think fear plays a part in my calorie restriction also. I know I have been slacking on eating REAL protein as a source of healthy calories (have been adding extra shakes and such because they are so easy), so this week my goal is to get close to 1550 in calories (and not worry about extra exercise calories) and to be eating more calorie-rich protein instead of the chicken breast/eggs/egg whites that I normally do. I have a half pound of lean ground beef ready to go for me tomorrow and need to thaw a pork tenderloin for the rest of the week. I tend to want to add "easy" calories in the form of carbs to up my calories which is NOT they way I want to go.....:dizzy:.

We are certainly similar....I got my master's in counseling/art therapy in 1999. I would say the only easier part for me is that I have my own practice and, therefore, see more "worried well" with basic needs met than I use to.

I don't think I'm much of a debater. But I have appreciated the impetus that John gave me to do more research into the science of weight loss/maintenance. I find the reading interesting and a bit like reading about different psychological theories....they are all looking at something from differing perspectives and yet fail to acknowledge that many different ideas can be true without necessarily negating one another.

I've read some about the "Calorie In Calorie Out" (CICO) theory of weight loss and maintenance. This holds that one cannot argue with the first law of themodynamics (that energy cannot be created or destroyed) thus a calorie is just converted energy and that energy is either stored or burned.

However, arguments against the CICO position argue that that the body is not a predictable or constant calorie burning machine. Maybe on a metabolically healthy individual, this could be more easily predicted. But on someone who is dealing with such issues as insulin resistence, thyroid struggles, other endocrine or hormone imbalances or even someone who has reset their basal metabolic rate quite low with years of low-cal dieting, the consequences of CICO are going to look vastly different.

I would even venture a guess (though that is all it is) that men FAR more easily can fall into a more simplified CICO model of weight loss and maintenance. I saw my hubby drop (and quickly) 20 lbs with simple diet changes that decreased his caloric intake. However, he has much advantage to me: increased muscle mass, no estrogen, no thyroid abnormalities, and higher levels of testosterone that are working nicely to create a well-oiled metabolic system.

Me, not so much.

Anyhoo....off to bed. More to be learned another day.......:D.

Actually males also have estrogen, the same as we also have testosterone, just different levels of each ;) The scary part is that we have less estrogen as a menopausal woman than an 18 - 25 year old male. Weird...

Serum estradiol (E2) assessment is most useful in the following situations:

•Testing for developmental disorders in children


•Assessing reproductive function and assisted reproduction in premenopausal women


•Testing for feminizing disorders in men


•Evaluating for tumors that secrete estrogen (both sexes)


The reference range of estradiol (E2) varies by age and sex.

The conversion factor is shown below.

Estradiol: pg/mL x 3.676 = pmol/L (molecular weight = 272)

Newborns

Newborns have very high estradiol levels at birth, but these fall within a few days to prepubertal levels.

Children

Table 1. Reference Ranges of Estradiol levels in Boys**[1, 2] (Open Table in a new window)


Tanner Stage Mean Age, Years Reference Range
Stage I (>14 days to prepuberty) 7.1 Undetectable to 13 pg/mL
Stage II 12.1 Undetectable to 16 pg/mL
Stage III 13.6 Undetectable to 26 pg/mL
Stage IV 15.1 Undetectable to 38 pg/mL
Stage V 18 10-40 pg/mL

Boys undergo puberty (transition from Tanner stage I to II) at a median age of 11.5 (±2) years. In boys, no relationship between puberty onset and ethnic origin or body weight has been proven. The progression through the Tanner stages varies. By age 18 years, adulthood (Tanner stage V) is typically reached.

Adults

The reference range of estradiol in men is 10-40 pg/mL.

The reference range estradiol in women varies by menopausal status, as follows:

•Before menopause: 15-350 pg/mL (estradiol levels are widely variable throughout the menstrual cycle)


•Following menopause: Under 10 pg/mL


From Medscape http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2089003-overview
evemomma, you should register there as a medical professional - great continuing education information and the latest studies on almost anything. I find it hugely interesting on many levels.

Good morning - getting caught up with everyone, great stuff!

I was doing so well and then, well, I may have overdone (who, me?) and have been resting mostly for a few days. Doing better now though.

Eve, I was doing some research into why it seems so much easier for people who have lost significant weight to quickly put it back on - seemingly much faster than people who have not been overweight and came to pretty much the same conclusions you did. That's why I think for us you can pretty much throw out the calorie calculators that tell you how many calories you should eat to maintain and just go by what your body does. Through trial and error I figured out that I can easily maintain on between 1650-1750 calories per day but I'm also trying to pay attention to what my body says. I've gone over a fair amount while recuperating but I've tried to make it mostly protein.

Morning Everyone!
Mon & Tues are my long shifts. Yesterday kicked my arse, today probably will too. I so appreciate the support and wanted to say THANKS! I definitely notice the low carbs/calories on these 2 days.

evemomma, I look forward to reading more of your research--thanks! Imho,trying to apply the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics 'calorie in = calorie out" to an open system such as a cell, let alone a living organism, is fundamentally flawed. Demonstrating this Law is difficult even in a laboratory with a simple closed chamber like a bomb calorimeter. But with something as complex and permeable-to-the-environment as the human body, how in the world could anyone accurately measure the fate of all the calories with the thousands of simultaneous chemical reactions, respiration, urination, defecation, sweating, storage,synthesis, lysis, etc.?

My sticking points in maintenance, fwiw, have been: early maintenance, thinking I could get away with things because my weight kept going down. Later, fear of eating enough, esp fats. (Carbs are a healthy fear for me, I'm afraid). This has led to some binge behavior. The biggest problem was the ole behavioral one, stress eating. I have day-today under control, but in the summer there were some big ones that interrupted my routines and took away a lot of time--I reverted to coping with food. Setting limits is impt. Work in progress ;)

Overall, I think the first year of maintenance is a learning curve. I am blessed to have a body that has been very forgiving of my eating habits. At age 61, it still holds out a long while before adding pounds. Maybe it's having an active job...I think exercise in whatever form will be our salvation in maintenance.

Earlybirds, I read there's a total lunar eclipse early Wed am, 3:55 PDT is halfway point.

Happy Tuesday!

I agree that the 'calories in = calories out' premise does not hold true in an open system. Nice concise way of explaining it, Mars!
Hope all your shifts go well ladies... and you behave yourself, Ruth Ann:nono: keep it scaled back for your recovery. :coffee: I was so dead tired from several bad nights of 'sleep' (lack of Delta sleep) and the stresses of this past while that I slept in til 10. I have a physio apptmt at 2 today, so I'd better get my butt in gear as I have a bit of cleaning around the house to do. I've kind of ignored stuff for the past few days. My $1.00 formal dress for the upcoming wedding is draped over a chair waiting for it's transformation AND my DH is getting tired of staring at the sewing machine set up at the opposite end of the dining room table... I took the 'before' picture, so I have no excuse to get on with it really, except that is my usual sewing modus operandi. All my life I have been hand hemming something while wearing it on the way to an event. Maybe I work better under pressure, lol.

Gotta figure out breakfast since I am down a couple pounds but could still go down a couple more. Probably my lazy old P1 shake...

Liana

Well Liana....should've said "low estrogen"....and then found it so interesting to read up more on what you posted and beyond. Apparently, estrogen can be a problem for middle-aged and aging men in their own waistline expansion! Haha...seems only fair! I love medscape and have the app loaded on my phone....great reference!

RuthAnn...I think it's only human to try to push through and go too far when we've been down for while. Take it easy still and milk any extra help around the house you can get for as LONG AS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!

Mars.....I appreciate your insights into the CICO debate and also sharing about your year journey into maintenance. I think maintenance is absolutely a learning curve. Seems to me that we have to balance the scared/rigid part of ourselves and not become TOO scared or TOO rigid (hello, eating disorder) with the rebellious and adventurous part of ourselves without going off the rails. It's a fine balance that I see more like a teeter totter in myself as a new maintainer: too strict......push limits......push limits a bit too far....reign it in......too strict......I suspect my balance will get better if I keep practicing.

On that note, zumba is getting easier! Trying to work on my cardio this week in particular and get in at least 5 days. I've written it here now, so I can't take it back!!!!!!

canadjineh - I have the same sewing issues as you do. I am definitely a procrastinator in that department. My pile of skirts has been sitting there to be hemmed but I keep making excuses to wait.

I think it's awesome that you and Liana sew so well! Buttons and tear repairs are as good as it gets here. Though, my daughter LOVES when I handstitch one of her stuffed animals. It's like I'm superwomen!

Great analogy evemomma! A teeter totter is exactly like maintenance! But that is an OK thing, because we are not a closed system... There is no possible way we can weigh the same at every moment in our maintenance lives, so I think we just have to let go of that worry (I know! easier said than done) and make sure we have a teeter totter with a very long lever and a small fulcrum. That way the movement is minimized (can you tell I've always loved physics, lol) and easy to shift.

BTW I hope I didn't sound condescending as I didn't mean it that way... I found the info on estrogen rather enlightening too and freaky at the same time. I didn't know that after menopause our levels are lower than young men in the physical prime of their lives!

Liana

I can do some simple things but actual alterations and such are a little more taxing. I've made costumes and stuff for my friends and have been like "they may not look absolutely perfect, but I promise they won't fall off or rip into pieces" :lol: