Originally Posted by Longhorn Energy:
I have to really disagree with your statement about IP being a PSMF...

I have honestly never heard that term before, so took your advice and googled it...Now I sure didnt read every site that came up, but the one that intrigued my the most was the Wiki description.

PSMF was designed in the late 1970s as a diet for a rapid weight loss for the morbidly obese.[1][2] PSMF is a type of very low calorie diet with dehydration being a health concern, hence fluids, vitamin and mineral (potassium and sodium) supplementation is necessary and doctor's supervision is recommended. PSMF diets consist in foods that are naturally rich in good-quality protein and particularly low in fats (chicken breast, egg white, ham, cottage cheese).

Now some major differences between IP and PSMF are apparent: We do not have any dairy in P1 so no cottage cheese, or other cheese/dairy. This of course was only one example...

It also speaks about ANY amount of low glycemic vegtables, and this also is not true with IP

IP would be better described as a ketogenic diet which in my opinion differs from a PSMF diet. Or am I missing something here??

You're not missing something, but you are confusing REQUIRED elements of PSMF's with EXAMPLES of PSMF's. Not all PSMF's incllude dairy, and not all PSMF's allow unlimited fruits and/or vegetables. Some do, but not all. The key element of PSMF's are the calorie restriction (almost always under 1200 calories for the day - which count your IP calories and see if they do not come in under or close to that 1200 calories) and the high-protein element.

That's it, the "protein sparing" part (the diet will include higher than average protein levels - in comparison to other weight loss diets) and the " modified fast" part is the calorie restriction (usually under 1200 calories for women, and under 1500 calories for me).

Also, it's not the calorie count that makes it a fast. In theory, a person could be on a 3000 calorie diet and still be on a PSMF - if that person weighed 600 lbs and their maintenance calorie level was 6000 calories.

What makes it a fast is that it's restrictive enough to create relatively rapid weight loss (more than one half of one percent of total weight loss per week - So more than 1 lb for a 200 lb person or more than 2 lbs for a 400 lb person...)

IP is a PSMF, because it spares protein loss because of its high protein content, and it's a modified fast because it restricts calories drastically enough to cause rapid weight loss. IP, does utilize pre-packaged or prepared meals or meal replacements, and while this is common of PSMF's, it isn't a requirement (you can do a PMSF entirely "from scratch," of entirely whole foods).

All PSMF's are high in protein and the vast majority are relatively low-carb, but not all are ketogenic. Some are, some aren't.

Also, I would argue that IP DOES indeed utilize dairy. I've seen the IP packet ingredient lists, and whey protein and other dairy ingredients are quite common. It doesn't include "additional" dairy (except what a tablespoon?) but it does very much rely on dairy and for that matter soy proteins.

This really illustrates the problem I addressed in my last post. PSMFers of all varieties, tend to quibble over the small details, saying things like "You're not really like us at all, because you do these things differently," which is really too bad, because I think a generic PSMF thread would be very beneficial, if folks wouldn't argue over what is and isn't a PSMF, and whether or not the minutia affect the effectiveness of the programs.

It's not the minutia that account for the effectiveness. Which proteins are used, and how much cauliflower allowed, are not what's causing the weight loss and craving management - it's the calorie-restriction and the protein.

Originally Posted by healthyangie:
IP is restrictive (I wouldn't say overly restrictive as that is subjective).
Some Pros:
~You do not count calories during weight loss phase. It's really VERY easy in this phase.
~Your body is given enough protein to make sure you don't lose your lean muscle mass. Many diets where you lose weight quickly do not focus on only losing fat, you also end up losing valuable muscle. IP makes sure this isn't the case with their diet.
~The amount of protein is not too high, therefor not causing issues that you would see in Atkins and SB where stones, etc are possible.
~Because you are mainly losing fat, you body shape truly changes. This is the first "diet" I've done when my weight came off in the proper places!
~The combination of foods (and reduction of carbs) allows the body to rest and the pancreas to reset it's insulin production to normal ranges. This is something you should speak to your coach or doctor about and not go by what you see on the forums. There is a lot of "opinions" here about that but your MD is the best to explain it.
~You are phased out properly and not just "dumped" to go back to your old ways. Your body is reintroduced to foods slowly.
~You stay with your coach even after maintenance starts. You are given tools to help deal with small weight gain and how to keep the weight off.

Just my opinion .. this is a great diet and is unique in philosophy and results from other diets I've tried to get off those "middle-age" pounds.

Almost forgot the cons:
~No alcohol during the first 3 phases (this might not be a con for you)
~You will most likely go through carb withdrawal the first week - but this is rewarded with A LOT of energy in week 2.
~It can be expensive - alternatives are available.
~ You can get a dip$hit coach - but can rely on us for support.

Love this response, Angie!

To the OP: Lots of great explanations of IP have been posted, so I'll just add my experience. I did WW, too, but was always hungry, and I never got past the sugar craving. Nice that I could have a brownie, if I counted the points, but for me, that led to a craving for more and more sugar, so staying on the plan was a moment-to-moment battle for me. IP has eliminated those cravings, and I'm finding it super easy to stay on the plan. And yes, I hope to be doing the Phase 4 for life, when I get there. I would not trade how good I feel for anything!

Now, having said that, I do think different things work for different people, and there is no one plan that is optimum for everyone. If you're curious, try IP for a month; if it doesn't suit you, go back to WW!

Originally Posted by kaplods:
You're not missing something, but you are confusing REQUIRED elements of PSMF's with EXAMPLES of PSMF's. Not all PSMF's incllude dairy, and not all PSMF's allow unlimited fruits and/or vegetables. Some do, but not all. The key element of PSMF's are the calorie restriction (almost always under 1200 calories for the day - which count your IP calories and see if they do not come in under or close to that 1200 calories) and the high-protein element.

That's it, the "protein sparing" part (the diet will include higher than average protein levels - in comparison to other weight loss diets) and the "fast" part (under 1200 calories).

So IP is a PSMF. It spares the protein, and it drastically (in comparison to other plans) restricts calories, AND often (but not alway) utilizes pre-packaged or prepared meals or meal replacements.

Also, I would argue that IP DOES indeed utilize dairy. I've seen the IP packet ingredient lists, and whey protein and other dairy ingredients are quite common. It doesn't include "additional" dairy (except what a tablespoon?) but it does very much rely on dairy and for that matter soy proteins.

This really illustrates the problem I addressed in my last post. PSMFers of all varieties, tend to quibble over the small details, saying things like "You're not really like us at all, because you do these things differently," which is really too bad, because I think a generic PSMF thread would be very beneficial, if folks wouldn't argue over what is and isn't a PSMF, and whether or not the minutia affect the effectiveness of the programs.

It's not the minutia that account for the effectiveness. Which proteins are used, and how much cauliflower allowed, are not what's causing the weight loss and craving management - it's the calorie-restriction and the protein.

Thanks for all the explanation. Like I said, I had never before today heard this term, and I guess IP falls within this category, but yes I was pulling out specific examples. Thats the old story, learn something new every day lol

Can I add my WW experience and why I chose IP? I lost 30lbs about 6 years ago when I got married on WW. I had done it about 4 times prior starting in college and lost and gained the same 10lbs.

I rejoined WW about 13 months ago and again lost and gained the same 10lbs through that time. The free fruit and veggies and the freedom really hurt me.

I get the whole moderation thing in WW - have one cookie or serving of chips...but the issue becomes craving those things. It is very hard to have just one serving - specifically sugary foods because we are then set into a cycle of craving the sugar, the insulin secretion, the hunger, the (over)eating.

I knew 3 co-workers and friends who had done IP and maintained for >1 year (and going)...all 3 of them had done and failed WW. The things that sold me on this diet: 1: quick weight loss, helps keep you motivated. 2: the tools that are given to be successful on maintenance and beyond. 3: The retraining the pancreas to work like in caveman days so that we break the cravings and cycle of overeating. 3: I believe this ultimately is healthier for us than any of the others.

Thanks to everyone for sharing your insight and experiences. I am currently on WW like I said and I do like the program, but I am finding this time around to go a lot slower than the last time. I feel like I just can't get back on track. I do nurse my newest baby though and I think that's a contributing factor. I have a few concerns when it comes to IP. First is the pre packaged things you have to eat. I am not a fan of anything that makes you have to eat something pre made, something packaged. The other major concern is how restrictive the diet is. I nurse, as I said, and for those who don't know nursing requires a lot of extra calories otherwise it can cause damage to the amount you make. I wouldn't want to be so restrictive calorie wise that I did that. And wow. I just found out the price per week for IP. Oh my that seems like a lot!!

Originally Posted by tschaff04:
Thanks to everyone for sharing your insight and experiences. I am currently on WW like I said and I do like the program, but I am finding this time around to go a lot slower than the last time. I feel like I just can't get back on track. I do nurse my newest baby though and I think that's a contributing factor. I have a few concerns when it comes to IP. First is the pre packaged things you have to eat. I am not a fan of anything that makes you have to eat something pre made, something packaged. The other major concern is how restrictive the diet is. I nurse, as I said, and for those who don't know nursing requires a lot of extra calories otherwise it can cause damage to the amount you make. I wouldn't want to be so restrictive calorie wise that I did that. And wow. I just found out the price per week for IP. Oh my that seems like a lot!!

That's true- you don't want to attempt IP while nursing, you need those extra calories and nutrients to nourish you and your baby!! At this stage, sticking with WW to whittle away some of those pounds will probably serve you well. Once you're done nursing you may want to revisit IP if you need something to zap the last bit of weight you want to get rid of. Yes, it's expensive in the short term (though many of us use less pricey "alternative" or knock-off products instead of the "official" IP products successfully) but for some of us it's the best solution to a long term problem - and the initial cost is far outweighed by the long term benefit. As far as the pre-packaged product goes, it's essentially similar product to the protein shakes and products used by bodybuilders and fitness professionals, nothing too crazy going on there. The simplicity of using products and only having to plan one full meal a day while losing weight worked for my lifestyle. Just my experience :)

tschaff - If you are nursing a baby, I would stick with what you're doing and maybe reconsider IP later. I'm not sure IP is even recommended for nursing mothers. (I'm sure someone here will have that answer!). I think really good nutrition is key when you're nursing, so stick with the lean proteins and fresh fruits and veggies, some dairy, and give that baby the very best!

IP is a fat burning diet!!! I lost 52 pounds of fat and maintained my lean muscle mass:)

It changed my body. I have used WW and other diets in the past and my body did not change as drastically as it did with IP. I also have learned how to eat the way my body likes to be fed.

You cannot do IP while nursing. Not enough calorie intake. Staying w/WW is the best bet for you now.

The 2 things that deterred me initially from IP was 1. Packaged food (and restricting whole food groups; 2. the cost.

I always thought that diets wouldn't be successful long term if you were required to cut out whole food groups. I mean, you have to eventually add them back in, and weight gain would surely happen, right? The same thing w/packaged food - it's easy to lose weight if you eat packaged food...but what happens when you go back to eating regular food?

Once I researched more and went to the informational session, I understood better how this works and how they give you tools for maintenance. The packaged food and restricting whole food groups is temporary until you burn your fat stores and lose the desired amount of weight. Then you gradually add back dairy and grains in a healthy way in order not to trigger cravings and binges.

The cost part - I figured out how much I spent on YEARS (all added together) on WW, buying their food products, and NOT losing weight. Plus, the time I spent counting points as well as the time I spent on South Beach...and discussed w/my husband who felt like the cost was worth it if it was going to work and eventually be a permanent lifestyle change. And I decided to do it.

Now, everyone is different and situations are different, so my reasons are not the same as everyone else's.

WW is a great diet for people who can manage cravings. It is a lifestyle change, and the support and meetings are great. Keep doing it if it works for you. You've done a great job so far, and although it may be slow, if that works for you right now in your current situation, then keep doing it! Good luck!!

I figured I couldn't do IP while nursing being so restrictive calorie wise. Thanks for letting me know for sure. Maybe one day when I am eating for one again I will give it a shot. :) I can't imagine not having all the veggies and fruits I love, but it seems to have worked for so many of you. I will come back in the future if for some reason I am not successful with WW and look more into it. Thanks everyone!!

I am not sure if this is the correct place to ask this question, but I have been trying to find the answer to my question on other postings and I can't seem to find it. I am on the IP diet, 3 days in now and I am drinking chai tea and the label shows that it has 1 carb, is this okay, or should I not be drinking it?

Originally Posted by ready4thin:
I am not sure if this is the correct place to ask this question, but I have been trying to find the answer to my question on other postings and I can't seem to find it. I am on the IP diet, 3 days in now and I am drinking chai tea and the label shows that it has 1 carb, is this okay, or should I not be drinking it?

Anything not on the sheet needs to be zero carbs, zero fat and zero sugars. Chai tea usually has some sugar in it.

When I was much much younger, I had success with WW. I "only" had about 30 pounds to lose. WW was the new program in town and it was much more restrictive than it is today. We even made our own catsup using tomato juice and onion flakes! But I think the strictness of the program is what made it work for me. However I was never able to keep the weight off, and through the years and 3 babies, the pounds went back on and then some! From time to time I have gone back to WW because I am a "lifetime" member, but I never lost weight fast enough, would hit plateaus, experience cravings, etc., and it finally dawned on me that it just wasn't the program for me.

IP has been a godsend. The weight came off fast enough so that I never felt discouraged, my cravings have been minimal, the food has been satisfying, and I just felt like a believer--that if I stuck to it, it would work.

I get that IP is a fat-burning program. Now if only I could find an "excess skin-burning" program, I'd really be happy! :carrot:

I also have done WW more times than I can remember...

I just wanted to add that the new version does "reward" you for low carb foods. You can easily adopt some of the principles of lower carb diets on WW. What I think fails people on the new version is the "free" fruit. A smoothly full of fruit for example is a LOT of calories/sugar.

I did WW (the new version) while BFing. I would continue. If you stall though try picking higher protein foods and less fruit. Really watch that fruit.

I switched to IP because I stalled on WW. I have continued to lose on IP but at a VERY slow rate. So, I think you just have to find what works for you. The cost IS high, but my net cost on food has not changed a whole lot because I had to give up starbucks and seldom go out for lunch now.

All the best to you!