Is this an ideal diet? I don't think there is such a thing as the ideal diet. You will find huge fans of the diet on this forum. For many of us, it is ideal because it is the first diet that has worked and continues to work. It does take a huge amount of effort, planning, discipline, and there may be some trial and error along the way. What I love best of the diet is if you stick to it, you will be successful. What I like least about the diet is that I don't enjoy eating out as much as I use to -- You have to order very specifically (a bit stressful), and I find it a big challenge not to eat bread, pasta, fried calamari, and so on...
I don't think that this diet is for everyone, but it sure is closer to ideal than any other diet I have tried.

Same here.

BTW I like you Grommit pic =)

To be fair, John didn't randomly come to the Ideal Protein boards to bash the IP diet. He expressed his opinions in regard to the OP's question.

When you ask a question like "Is this really an 'Ideal Diet,' you can expect to get both "yes" and "no" answers.

And where are you going to get the "no" answers, except from someone who isn't following the diet.

Ordinarily I wouldn't criticise a diet in that diet's forum, but when the question is asked in this manner, I do expect people with opinions on BOTH sides to weigh in order to answer the OP's question (otherwise why ask the question - or at least ask "Why is this an Ideal Diet? if you don't want to hear opinions against"

For the record, I think John did a very fair job of expressing his views on what he sees as weaknesses of the diet, without bashing the diet or people following it.

No plan is weakness-free, which is why there is no "Ideal Diet. You have to decide whether or not the strengths and weaknesses of any diet complements your own strengths and weaknesses.

But no matter where you are on this site, if you ask for an "is this" opinion, you can expect to get some "no" answers.

ok, can i ask just one question that has been really bothering me about IP? The premise about needing to give your "pancreas a vacation".....

Can someone please point me to Peer reviewed, scientific studies that strongly support this idea?
From what ive read, IP IS a PSMF diet, and i agree that Lyle McDonald's is the gold standard. Ive never before read anything about needing to let someones pancreas "rest".

To be honest, the only other issue i have with IP is the dangers to your hormone systems remaining on such a low calorie, no carb diet for so long..... I cant help but wonder how many women have experienced long term amenorrhea? hair loss, severe metabolic adaptations? stunted grehnlin and severe sensitivities to foods where none existed before (ie; CARBS lol and dairy products)

This is something as far as I can tell that Dr Tran made up. Interestingly enough protein creates a pretty sizable insulin release anyways so the pancreas isn't resting. To take it even further if Dr Tran was so concerned about insulin the IP packets would be made from egg protein which would trigger about half the insulin of MPI (which is what the IP packets are made up of). The whey protein in the MPI also spikes insulin. Egg protein costs more than double MPI though ...

It can be "ideal" for some, for others it can be a nightmare - Just happens that after trying so many diet plans, this diet worked for me. I know people that they joined the program and have to quit because it didn't work for them.
I also know people that they have lost 70+ lbs and have gained all back and more... so pretty much is up to the dieter to learn new ways of feed themselves, this particular person lost all the weight and then start with Taco Bell, etc... weight came back. Again, coaches need knowledge how to educated the dieter to phase off.
About coaches lacking of knowledge, I think you hit right on the spot, it is amazing how you can be a coach just because you have lost weight, I really don't agree with this, and I'd like for the coaches to have some nutritional background, Some coaches spend time to research and get knowledge, others just give you their idea, thoughts, they can understand the dieter's struggles because they have been thru this before... but that's it. I am not happy with my current coach, so I just weight, purchase food and leave. I think I know more than her which is dissapointing.

There is definitely hormone "things" going on with IP, but are they part of a detox process from being overfat or are they caused by the diet itself? If caused by the diet itself, does a maintenance program which reintroduces all the food groups "cure" it?

Appreciate the information you're presenting and would like to know where to start to learn more about hormones and weight loss/maintenance.


Resting the pancreas is a very real concept more commonly used with pacreatitis and involves no food at all; I think Dr Tran simplified it for the purposes of explanation of hormones to the masses. The packets and snacks do not all contain MPI (milk protein isolate?). Some egg, some soy, some milk, some whey, some pea, some combinations. Only 2 products have gelatin as the main protein and they are recognized as incomplete protein packets.

The packets aren't perfect and they do bend the originally stated concepts a bit, which was always disappointing to me. I think there is a point where the diet business overrules a bit of the diet concept. The packets are really just for the duration of weight loss; I thought of them as the stopgap measure between where I was and healthy eating. They really helped get thru the process so now whole foods taste good and are more satisfying than before I started this process.

Thanks for the link to Lyle McDonald's site.

I believe we have some trolls infiltrating the IP boards. If you don't know that definition, google "Internet trolls" and then ignore them or go to your CP setting and block

If you see people with THOUSANDS of posts but they are new here and trying to point out negatives of the diet, they aren't IP people. Why are they suddenly spending time here?

Arguing with trolls is futile. Use your block settings and carry on in another thread. Trolls can't stand to be ignored and will go where they get attention.

I've already blocked so I won't see troll responses to this post!

Funny, this study suggests the exact opposite of what you are stating regarding protein and insulin response.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/133/2/405.full.pdf

Plus I'd do a quick poll of diabetics who have done ketogenic diets and see how many type 2's had to either lower or stop their medication as their bodies were normalizing in terms of insulin production and response due to the diet.

John: I see you have had great weight loss results...congrats on that! What diet program are you on?

Cheers
Jake

Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them a "troll" geez.

John has very valid points.
I did alternatives because IP is too expensive. How many posts have I read that say that in here...
I've also read a ton of "my coach sucks" posts.
I also believe most of you guys have learned more here than you've learned from your coach.
I hate reading responses to questions here that say "just follow the sheet and that's all you need to know"

No diet is going to work unless you learn how to make long term eating changes.
I did alternatives, spent days researching, tracked my food, and made changes to my eating I'll keep forever.

I must add one exception.
My friend after seeing my weight loss, was so excited to do it! I took my weeks of research and told him exactly what to do. He couldn't stick to it through a weekend. He'd start again and I'd tell him what to buy, even pointed him here, etc. and he'd fall off again.
So I told him he should go to a clinic because if he's spending tons of money he'll probably stick to it.
Me, I did it for my smaller jeans :) that was enough.

I've noticed that often people on a specifc weight loss plan often get very defensive of their plan - any criticism (no matter how mild) is seen as a personal attack, especially if the plan is quite structured, complex, expensive, or popular (or conversely very unpopular).

I think part of this is because we're taught to give weight loss an almost religious or magical connotation - so that even the tiniest of adaptations is seen as "messing with the mojo."

Some unscrupulous staff within these programs (such as some of the coaches we hear about) encourage the magical thinking. Sometimes because the staff are using magical thinking themselves, or because they want to keep customers loyal, and one way to do that IS to make the plan difficult or impossible to duplicate at home.

This has always frustrated me, because it makes it incredibly difficult to judge a weight loss plan without trying it (because very few people on it, can be trusted to give an honest, unbiased, and rational feedback on the program. You tend to get all the good news, and none of the bad - hearing the strengths of the plan, but never the weaknesses).

And every plan has strengths and weaknesses, and the secret is finding (or even {gasp of horror} adapting) a plan to your own strengths and weaknesses.

For many people understanding HOW a plan works doesn't matter a fig, as long as it works they could care less how (although these are the most likely to have superstitious beliefs about why the plan works).

Other people have to understand HOW a plan works to be able to rationalize following it.

For some people finances are the bottom line. You can't get blood from a turnip, and many people are on budgets so tight that even alternatives just won't work (I know it won't work in our household unless we were willing to move to a run-down, kinda scary neighborhood with much lower rents. As it is we're bottom-lining many of our expenses - we buy everything at thrift stores that we can, and our food budget is far lower than even food stamps would provide if we were elegible for food stamps, which we're not because our medication costs are too high and we can't stop the medications until AFTER the weight loss - so unless we could borrow a great deal of money the IP protocol wouldn't work for us. Alternatives wouldn't be that much better).

Even so, reading the IP threads has helped me understand PSMFs and has helped me learn what I can adapt from IP into my own plan.

I'm not here as a troll, I'm here because I believe that in all of our plans we need to hear "all sides of the story" so that we can learn. And we can learn from people following our plans and those who aren't.

I remember having a conversation in a wls thread on another board. Someone posted a question about people's experiences with wls, and the woman got insanely angry at people who shared negative experiences (mostly about dishonest doctors and unexpected complications) and accused them of trying to talk her out of the surgery. She only wanted to hear positive stories.

What was even scarier was that one person agreed with her saying "if our doctors would have told us what it really was like, no one would ever get the surgery," and I thought "WHAT THE HECK! How can you go into something with so many risks intentionally blindfolded"

But hey, that's just me. I WANT to hear all the negative opinions (even from people outside the plan) in order to judge the plan for myself. If I don't get to hear the rational (and even the emotional) arguments on both sides, I could be wasting my time and money on a plan that isn't right for me.

I guess I don't understand how anyone can feel differently. I mean I DO understand - some people don't want to see all sides, because it can be confusing - and a lot of work to sort through the arguments that apply to you and those that don't, but to accuse folks who disagree (especially on valid ground, but even those who disagree because they're mistaken) of having ill-intent because they disagree I think hurts us all.

We have to be able to discuss the pros and the cons, the strengths and weaknesses, and our beliefs and information on the issues (even risking being wrong sometimes) for the greater good of allowing us all to evaluate the plans on more than just testimonials and trial-and-error.


I've learned alot from IP threads, and I've learned even more in the thread that have had the most perspectives expressed. When I only hear the down side or the positive side I never get a feel that I'm getting the truth - because the truth is almost never in the extreme, it's in the middle, and often you can only find the middle by hearing the extremes.

Kaplods - I liked your post - it's right on the money. I haven't started IP yet. I went to one of their info sessions and took it all with a grain of salt. That was the end of August - I had a month left on Weight Watchers, and I've been using that time to come here and read up and get info on IP. I never trust just one side of anything for the reasons you said. No plan is perfect and I need to hear both sides to make an informed decision. I have also read tons of reviews on the progam.

John hasn't said anything I find at all disconcerting where IP is concerned. I've taken his info, as well as everyone elses into account.

As it stands I still plan to do the program. I have an appt next Tuesday to get set up. Sure I have reservations about it but I have to be honest - I am only planning on doing Phase 1 for the month of October. I don't like some of the things I've read about ketosis (apart from these forums and IP in general) and I wouldn't want to be in it for too long. I only have about 10 more pounds to lose, and wherever I am at with it by the end of October is where I will be stopping and moving on to Phase 2.

Anyway, nothing wrong with differing opinions and I'll keep researching IP and ketosis because I still have much to learn.

That study does not have anything to do with what I posted. Either you don't understand what I said or you don't understand the study.

My point which is this:
You lose weight on the IP diet because you are heavily restricting calories. Your pancreas is not taking a vacation because insulin is released by the ingestion of protein alone.

My point is not:
Protein + carbs releases the same amount of insulin as protein alone.
The SAD diet does a wonderful job of keeping blood sugar levels stable in sedentary individuals.

[EDIT] - I didn't address your last point. Ask diabetics who have lost weight following any diet what has happened to their medication. If you think the IP diet is special in this regard you are mistaken.