Originally Posted by New Englander:
I got a laugh at those saying this plan isn't for those who want to lose small numbers...are you serious??? ...But, thanks for the laugh!!!

I wanted to let this one go because I don't want to start a war but, feel it's important to point out that there are health risks to a ketogenic diet. It seems everyone would know this from reading on the internet about ketosis.

The risks: kidney damage, liver damage, developing kidney stones, osteoporosis from calcium leeching from the bones, and more. If you don't believe me, PLEASE google it. If you can't find medical articles with scientific evidence of those dangers, please ask and I will post a list of ones I've read.

I have chosen to take those risks because I was severely obese (no longer severely just obese at this point, thanks to IP diet) :carrot: I view taking this drastic weight loss approach as equivalent to a cancer patient choosing chemotherapy. All along I've contemplated how long I want to assume the risk of being in ketosis for the very great reward of losing fat. One of my biggest obstacles to conventional dieting is the overwhelming desire I have for high glycemic foods. When I'm in ketosis the problem of resisting is a non-issue. However, my personal choice, which this thread has helped me to form the answer to, is to only remain on IP until I've reached a weight that is comfortable for me, 160 lbs then transition off and continue my weight loss journey on a balanced diet with exercise. I'm not judging anyone for their decision to be on this diet for any length of time but, I think it's important not to gloss over the potential dangers of the diet. To clarify, the scientific evidence suggests that these are POTENTIAL problems. I feel it's important for people to make their own decisions about their own bodies and hopefully they will be informed decisions that include weighting the health risks. In my opinion, for a small amount of weight to lose like 21 lbs on a 5'9" body, it wouldn't be worth taking any risks. As a 5'4" 234 lbs female who struggled to lose the weight unsuccessfully for more than a decade, it was worth the risk.

If I've offended anyone with my opinions, I apologize. However, I felt that if people couldn't understand why several of us view IP diet as a drastic approach then, maybe they aren't aware of the potential risks of ketogenic diets. This was only meant to inform, not to judge.

Originally Posted by sekc14:
I wanted to let this one go because I don't want to start a war but, feel it's important to point out that there are health risks to a ketogenic diet. It seems everyone would know this from reading on the internet about ketosis.

The risks: kidney damage, liver damage, developing kidney stones, osteoporosis from calcium leeching from the bones, and more. If you don't believe me, PLEASE google it. If you can't find medical articles with scientific evidence of those dangers, please ask and I will post a list of ones I've read.

I have chosen to take those risks because I was severely obese (no longer severely just obese at this point, thanks to IP diet) :carrot: I view taking this drastic weight loss approach as equivalent to a cancer patient choosing chemotherapy. All along I've contemplated how long I want to assume the risk of being in ketosis for the very great reward of losing fat. One of my biggest obstacles to conventional dieting is the overwhelming desire I have for high glycemic foods. When I'm in ketosis the problem of resisting is a non-issue. However, my personal choice, which this thread has helped me to form the answer to, is to only remain on IP until I've reached a weight that is comfortable for me, 160 lbs then transition off and continue my weight loss journey on a balanced diet with exercise. I'm not judging anyone for their decision to be on this diet for any length of time but, I think it's important not to gloss over the potential dangers of the diet. To clarify, the scientific evidence suggests that these are POTENTIAL problems. I feel it's important for people to make their own decisions about their own bodies and hopefully they will be informed decisions that include weighting the health risks. In my opinion, for a small amount of weight to lose like 21 lbs on a 5'9" body, it wouldn't be worth taking any risks. As a 5'4" 234 lbs female who struggled to lose the weight unsuccessfully for more than a decade, it was worth the risk.

If I've offended anyone with my opinions, I apologize. However, I felt that if people couldn't understand why several of us view IP diet as a drastic approach then, maybe they aren't aware of the potential risks of ketogenic diets. This was only meant to inform, not to judge.

I totally agree with what you've said. This "diet" is not for EVERYONE; there are RISKS with everything you do, eat, say or whatever you do in YOUR life ya know? To each their own ;) Congrats on your success!

Many of us who seem to have only a small amount to lose may in fact not be as appears at first glace. I have been severly overweight all my life, at my highest 205 pounds at 5'1". It took me 10 years to get the first 40 pounds off. I have always immediately regained when I try to maintain after a loss on a balanced plan.
I will likely need a knee replacement in the next decade, I am now in my early 60s. My doctor wanted to send me to a specialist. I asked him to wait until I got more weight off but don't have another 10 years to spend losing and regaining.
My doctor just sent me for blood tests. He said everything is excellent across the board. I will still need the surgery in the future but at a normal weight my recovery should be much easier.

If someone is obese wouldn't your logic mean that you are putting yourself at greater risk because you will be doing this longer?

Pat

Originally Posted by patns:
....If someone is obese wouldn't your logic mean that you are putting yourself at greater risk because you will be doing this longer?

It would stand to reason longer exposure would equate to more potential and/or more damage possible. One article I read said that ketosis could start a condition --implying that the condition doesn't automatically stop when the ketosis diet stops?! Somehow I don't think I'm clearly getting my point across. Which is I am choosing a drastic approach because I've judged that my circumstances are drastic. Would I choose gastric bipass? No. Do I think this is as drastic as GB? No, I think it's far healthier. Would I choose chemotherapy if I had cancer? Depends. An OB gyn told me I needed a hysterectomy. Did I choose to do it? No, and without a second opinion. But, when I got a second opinion the other OB Gyn in the same practice said he didn't think it was necessary. Medical opinions differ. People's opinions differ. It's up to the individual to make their own health choices and risks. My opinions should and decisions should have NO BEARING on someone else's decisions. Like I said, if someone chooses to use this diet at any weight, size, age, etc. go for it! I did! I'm very happy with my choice to do it and most everyone else is extremely happy they've found something that works for them.

BTW, there was a Native Alaskan tribe that lived their entire lives in ketosis for generations because there were very little fruit and veggies in the snow. Bodies do adapt. It seems bodies suffer from the high glycemic diets too. IMO, my body suffered more from carbs than lack of them. But, I also haven't done a bone density check nor have I had time to find out if kidney stones are forming but, that could happen without this diet. Right?

Originally Posted by Trinique125:
unfortunately I don't know of any other coaches in my area but I decided to give this another week or two, I will stay away from the restrictives this week and see if that helps. My coach is quite nice but she operates out of a hair dresser's office:?:, no doctors there, only hair dressers and she has a little corner room in the back where she runs her business

This is the kind of stuff that scares me.

Originally Posted by Momto2cs:
Gary taubes first book good calories bad calories is even better.
!

His earlier book is also great, but I find this book an easier read because it lays it all out for the average reader. Either way both very informative.

Originally Posted by sekc14:
I wanted to let this one go because I don't want to start a war but, feel it's important to point out that there are health risks to a ketogenic diet. It seems everyone would know this from reading on the internet about ketosis.

The risks: kidney damage, liver damage, developing kidney stones, osteoporosis from calcium leeching from the bones, and more. If you don't believe me, PLEASE google it. If you can't find medical articles with scientific evidence of those dangers, please ask and I will post a list of ones I've read.

I have chosen to take those risks because I was severely obese (no longer severely just obese at this point, thanks to IP diet) :carrot: I view taking this drastic weight loss approach as equivalent to a cancer patient choosing chemotherapy. All along I've contemplated how long I want to assume the risk of being in ketosis for the very great reward of losing fat. One of my biggest obstacles to conventional dieting is the overwhelming desire I have for high glycemic foods. When I'm in ketosis the problem of resisting is a non-issue. However, my personal choice, which this thread has helped me to form the answer to, is to only remain on IP until I've reached a weight that is comfortable for me, 160 lbs then transition off and continue my weight loss journey on a balanced diet with exercise. I'm not judging anyone for their decision to be on this diet for any length of time but, I think it's important not to gloss over the potential dangers of the diet. To clarify, the scientific evidence suggests that these are POTENTIAL problems. I feel it's important for people to make their own decisions about their own bodies and hopefully they will be informed decisions that include weighting the health risks. In my opinion, for a small amount of weight to lose like 21 lbs on a 5'9" body, it wouldn't be worth taking any risks. As a 5'4" 234 lbs female who struggled to lose the weight unsuccessfully for more than a decade, it was worth the risk.

If I've offended anyone with my opinions, I apologize. However, I felt that if people couldn't understand why several of us view IP diet as a drastic approach then, maybe they aren't aware of the potential risks of ketogenic diets. This was only meant to inform, not to judge.

I do respect your opinion, but I do have to totally disagree with you. I've read a lot on the subject of ketosis and this is the best description I know of as to why ketosis is not a dangerous state for a human being to be in:

" The medical community and the media confuse ketosis with ketoacidosis, a variant of ketosis that occurs in untreated diabetics and can be fatal. ''Doctors are scared of ketosis,'' says Richard Veech, an N.I.H. researcher who studied medicine at Harvard and then got his doctorate at Oxford University with the Nobel Laureate Hans Krebs. ''They're always worried about diabetic ketoacidosis. But ketosis is a normal physiologic state. I would argue it is the normal state of man. It's not normal to have McDonald's and a delicatessen around every corner. It's normal to starve.''

Simply put, ketosis is evolution's answer to the thrifty gene.
We may have evolved to efficiently store fat for times of famine, says Veech, but we also evolved ketosis to efficiently live off that fat when necessary. Rather than being poison, which is how the press often refers to ketones, they make the body run more efficiently and provide a backup fuel source for the brain. Veech calls ketones ''magic'' and has shown that both the heart and brain run 25 percent more efficiently on ketones than on blood sugar. ..."

Ketosis expert Dr. Richar Veech

All I know is, when someone is weighing (hahahaha punny) sticking to a severely restrictive diet--because the weight loss is stalled...they are hungrier than a bear...they have a small amount of weight to lose...not to mention the program isn't cheep......I have to question if it just isn't the right program for that person. That's all I was writing in a prior post.

Does this diet work on the notion that the more you weigh the more food you get to consume? If so, then it might even be easier for someone who weighs 300 lbs to stick with since there is more food available. Or, does everyone on it get 700/800 calories daily?
Also, I didn't imply that losing just a few pounds were "vanity" pounds because I truly believe when you are disappointed with your weight, you need to do something about it to make you happy with yourself. I don't even question the program that someone chooses.....except when they are expressing severe hunger and lack of results. Then, maybe it is time to look to something else.

Everyone has an argument for what diet works best and why. What works best for you is what works best for you. When it isn't working---the diet has failed you and its time to look to alternatives. When you reach your goal, you have to move to a different strategy for keeping the weight off. I'm at the point in my life where I finally get that--I need to eat differently forever. I'm happy with this realization.

Anyhow, it looks like you broke your plateau and you're moving forward and you're happier with the program now. I wish you (and everyone else for that matter) success and continued success.

Originally Posted by DanafromAustin:

Ketosis expert Dr. Richar Veech

This is my go to source for authenticating the program and I also very much like the information regarding the practical application of ketosis that Dr Michael Eades gives in his blog and elsewhere.

I think it's up to each individual and their coach/doctor to decide what's the best approach for them. I've been the person that needs to only lose 20lbs. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to and I tried many different diets, including diet and exercise alone. Unfortunately, I was discouraged and gave up, which is why I am much further from my goal. Each person is different and each person needs to find what works best for their body. Ultimately, we need to be supportive of each other, regardless of the amount we are loosing. I don't believe the earlier comment was mean to be offensive or disrespective. Lets continue to stay positive and supportive of each other!

you know the one thing I absolutely HATE about this program is how constipated I become. When I was on WW I had regular bowel movements WITHOUT the use of pills/supplements. Now it's the opposite. I will not "go" unless I drink or take something. And yes I drink the water, eat the veggies etc. My boyfriend's sister who lost 70 lbs on this program said sometimes a week would go by and she would not "go". That scares me. So I drink a herbal laxative tea every couple of days. I wonder though how healthy is it really to be in ketosis for more than a couple of weeks if normal bodily functions are affected so severely?

Constipation can lead to serious health risks too such as Hemroids, Anal Fissures, Vericose Veins, IBS etc, not to mention the lethargy and "brain fog" you experience.

Originally Posted by Trinique125:
you know the one thing I absolutely HATE about this program is how constipated I become. When I was on WW I had regular bowel movements WITHOUT the use of pills/supplements. Now it's the opposite. I will not "go" unless I drink or take something. And yes I drink the water, eat the veggies etc. My boyfriend's sister who lost 70 lbs on this program said sometimes a week would go by and she would not "go". That scares me. So I drink a herbal laxative tea every couple of days. I wonder though how healthy is it really to be in ketosis for more than a couple of weeks if normal bodily functions are affected so severely?

Constipation can lead to serious health risks too such as Hemroids, Anal Fissures, Vericose Veins, IBS etc, not to mention the lethargy and "brain fog" you experience.

I don't think that it's necessarily the ketosis that causes constipation, but the make up of foods. There is not much fiber in this diet, and if you combine that with the fact that we are using most of what we ingest (which leads to less waste) and the small amount of fat on the diet and you can have these problems. Personally I don't have a big problem with that, maybe every now and then, so it varies from person to person.

Originally Posted by NavyMommy:
I don't think that it's necessarily the ketosis that causes constipation,...

Everyone should google, "side effects of ketogenic diet" there is plenty of research by Johns Hopkins and a list of side effects. Nausea, vomiting, constipation, loss of bone mineral, etc. are just a few. Just read the information diseminated directly from the scientific medical research groups that have performed the studies and is at your disposal through the net. Why limit your reading and information to someone else's interpretation only? You are capable of going straight to the source, take advantage of it.

Originally Posted by sekc14:
Everyone should google, "side effects of ketogenic diet" there is plenty of research by Johns Hopkins and a list of side effects. Nausea, vomiting, constipation, loss of bone mineral, etc. are just a few. Just read the information diseminated directly from the scientific medical research groups that have performed the studies and is at your disposal through the net. Why limit your reading and information to someone else's interpretation only? You are capable of going straight to the source, take advantage of it.

Googling items and researching online will produce millions of answers to our questions...I don't agree with that approach and I can attest all the specialist I see for various issues always tell me NOT to google health issues and to speak directly with them... I think this dialogue (i.e. thread) is beneficial for us to communicate with one another and share ideas...nothing is in black and white and WE are all smart enough to know NOT to take medical advice from one another... just sayin'

Not reading this thread anymore! It's seems to be getting too much...and not supportive!

Originally Posted by Trinique125:
you know the one thing I absolutely HATE about this program is how constipated I become. When I was on WW I had regular bowel movements WITHOUT the use of pills/supplements. Now it's the opposite. I will not "go" unless I drink or take something. And yes I drink the water, eat the veggies etc. My boyfriend's sister who lost 70 lbs on this program said sometimes a week would go by and she would not "go". That scares me. So I drink a herbal laxative tea every couple of days. I wonder though how healthy is it really to be in ketosis for more than a couple of weeks if normal bodily functions are affected so severely?

Constipation can lead to serious health risks too such as Hemroids, Anal Fissures, Vericose Veins, IBS etc, not to mention the lethargy and "brain fog" you experience.

Constipation is from the increase in protein, not ketosis. Also because of the limited calories in the diet there isn't as much waste. There are many healthy natural products out there besides laxatives that one can take if need be to keep your liver, kidneys and digestive track humming along just fine.

The Hopkins ketogenic diet studies were done for children who are on the diet for seisure control, especially when seisure meds don't work. The studies show that 1 in 20 children on ketogenic diet result in kidney stones which is 10X the rate in the normal population of children.

The IP literature I received from my office says constipation is sometimes a problem. The food diary includes a place to record constipation. Also, they take blood pressure every time as ketosis can cause raised blood pressure. We may not be eating much but, burning the fat creates metabolic waste too. IP sells something specifically for constipation and according to my office, we're not supposed to use other products.

i am not taking sides one way or the other, but I just have to wonder how many coaches discuss any possible risks/side effects (other than constipation) with their clients??? Mine sure did not. She also did not EVER take my blood pressure. If the diet is potentially dangerous, shouldn't this be a REQUIREMENT? I agree that there is a lot of conflicting information out there, and it should NOT be up to the client to "read the information on the internet" and decide what is the truth. :mad: