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Old 10-30-2010, 02:15 PM   #1  
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Default Lean body weight calculations

Okay, I need to run some numbers by some of you...

When I began IP I weighed 285.1 and was 48% body fat. That mean that 52% of me was not fat or 148 pounds which means if my goal was to have 20% body fat then my ideal weight would be 185. (148/.8).

Now, I weigh 229.8 and 43.1% body fat. That means 56.9% of me is not fat or 130.7 pounds which with the same goal would mean that my idea weight is 163.5.

This also means that someplace along the way, I have lost almost 18 pounds of something that is not fat. If I have lost 55 pounds on IP and 18 of that is not fat then 32% of what I've lost is not fat. I was pretty sure that the goal of IP was to lose fat and not muscle. It would seem those numbers indicate something very different.

I realize that this all assumes that the device used to measure body fat is accurate, but it's been the same device all along.

I get copies of my weights and measures every week and my husband went through and crunched the numbers and it looks like there has been a steady decline throughout my weight loss other than the first few weeks after I got out of my cast and got back to dancing. This kind of makes me rethink the theory of not exercising.

Anyone want to weigh in with thoughts on this?
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Old 10-30-2010, 02:39 PM   #2  
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Could it be water?
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Old 10-30-2010, 02:50 PM   #3  
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It is muscle unless you are exercising at least one hour a day, alternating cardio and weights.

BF is very capricious, just like weighing, depending on the time of day, how much you have drank, etc. If you are talking about the scale that gives BF or the device, they both work by passing a current through your body. It can be blocked by food in your stomach or water. It gives you an estimate, but the only way to truly measure BF is underwater and it is very costly.
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Old 10-30-2010, 03:38 PM   #4  
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I realize that this all assumes that the device used to measure body fat is accurate, but it's been the same device all along.
Marion, the statement I've excerpted above is critical, and it assumes that the body fat measurement device is precise -- it gives the same reading on the same body over a short period of time. The gold standards on measuring body fat on live humans are DeXA (an xray), and immersion, and even these have variation in the measurements.

I'm not sure there's a diet in the world that can eliminate the loss of lean body mass without regular, rigorous strength training. (From what I've been reading "cardio" exercise is generally a poor time and energy investment if the goal is to build or retain muscle.) As you lose weight, you will lose muscle -- you don't need as much muscle to carry yourself around. Your body is probably adjusting; at your height 165 has BMI = 25.
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Old 10-30-2010, 04:36 PM   #5  
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My body fat percentage varies WIDELY when I weigh, depending on whether or not I have socks on. Seriously.

Last edited by amylew; 10-30-2010 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 10-30-2010, 09:01 PM   #6  
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Marion, the statement I've excerpted above is critical, and it assumes that the body fat measurement device is precise -- it gives the same reading on the same body over a short period of time. The gold standards on measuring body fat on live humans are DeXA (an xray), and immersion, and even these have variation in the measurements.

I'm not sure there's a diet in the world that can eliminate the loss of lean body mass without regular, rigorous strength training. (From what I've been reading "cardio" exercise is generally a poor time and energy investment if the goal is to build or retain muscle.) As you lose weight, you will lose muscle -- you don't need as much muscle to carry yourself around. Your body is probably adjusting; at your height 165 has BMI = 25.
When I first started IP the machine that they used to measure body fat showed an error because I was more than 50% body fat. I have lost 2/3's of my weight and I am still at 43% body fat. I think I will watch the BMI and not worry about this one.
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Old 10-31-2010, 09:17 AM   #7  
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My body fat percentage varies WIDELY when I weigh, depending on whether or not I have socks on. Seriously.
It should. The scale actually runs a slight current through your body. Your socks are acting as an insulator. Either take the socks off or soak them in salt water before you use your scale.
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Old 10-31-2010, 01:40 PM   #8  
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I weigh in at the same time, the same day of the week and I eat the same breakfast every morning before I go. I can't answer the sock reference though because I can't remember. It is likely I have started wearing socks. Okay, so I get that the measuring device isn't the most accurate.

I guess I'm having a hard time not looking at the trend though. The point that I seem to have begun to take the bigger dip was right when I began dancing 3 or more nights a week. And perhaps what I'm wondering most is should I be increasing my protein level or begin doing some strength training?

I'm Svelting, I have a hard time with the BMI level because it doesn't take into account bone size or anything other than weight and height. I think it was Linden that posted a scale of body sizes awhile back that was based on wrist measurements which would put me in the category of a large woman. (6.5" wrist) I just don't feel comfortable with that as a standard because I think it's factors are too limited. I realize you are right though, short of an expensive body fat test, I may not get a better indicator.

As far as losing some muscle because our bodies need less, I get the theory, but I also know that the one time I actually had an immersion body fat test, the suggestion was for my weight to be right about the 185 I'm shooting for now and at that point I was dancing much more than I am now but I'd like to be at that level of fitness. I'm not looking for a skinny physique, if that makes sense. I would much rather be a muscular 185 than a skinny looking 165 though honestly, I have a hard time thinking I could ever weigh 165 again because I was probably in 6th grade the last time I did!

Anyway, I hope this doesn't come across as argumentative because that's not at all how I intend it. You are all such a great resource and sounding board to think through theories and ideas. I really value your thoughts and input. I did send an email to my coach so I'll see what she says when I go in Wednesday, or possibly sooner if she emails back before then.

I'm also a little stressed because I leave Friday and will not have an official weigh in for probably 2 weeks and possibly 3 weeks, so if I need or do make a change, I'm not going to have my standard method of measuring change. I obviously don't want to waste 3 weeks, but I don't want to continue to lose muscle as fast as I have the last 3 weeks because if I continue at this rate, I won't be able to put that water bottle on the cooler much longer!

Anyway, thanks again for the thoughts.
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Old 10-31-2010, 03:37 PM   #9  
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Originally Posted by Marionm View Post
I weigh in at the same time, the same day of the week and I eat the same breakfast every morning before I go. I can't answer the sock reference though because I can't remember. It is likely I have started wearing socks. Okay, so I get that the measuring device isn't the most accurate.

I guess I'm having a hard time not looking at the trend though. The point that I seem to have begun to take the bigger dip was right when I began dancing 3 or more nights a week. And perhaps what I'm wondering most is should I be increasing my protein level or begin doing some strength training?

I'm Svelting, I have a hard time with the BMI level because it doesn't take into account bone size or anything other than weight and height. I think it was Linden that posted a scale of body sizes awhile back that was based on wrist measurements which would put me in the category of a large woman. (6.5" wrist) I just don't feel comfortable with that as a standard because I think it's factors are too limited. I realize you are right though, short of an expensive body fat test, I may not get a better indicator.

As far as losing some muscle because our bodies need less, I get the theory, but I also know that the one time I actually had an immersion body fat test, the suggestion was for my weight to be right about the 185 I'm shooting for now and at that point I was dancing much more than I am now but I'd like to be at that level of fitness. I'm not looking for a skinny physique, if that makes sense. I would much rather be a muscular 185 than a skinny looking 165 though honestly, I have a hard time thinking I could ever weigh 165 again because I was probably in 6th grade the last time I did!

Anyway, I hope this doesn't come across as argumentative because that's not at all how I intend it. You are all such a great resource and sounding board to think through theories and ideas. I really value your thoughts and input. I did send an email to my coach so I'll see what she says when I go in Wednesday, or possibly sooner if she emails back before then.

I'm also a little stressed because I leave Friday and will not have an official weigh in for probably 2 weeks and possibly 3 weeks, so if I need or do make a change, I'm not going to have my standard method of measuring change. I obviously don't want to waste 3 weeks, but I don't want to continue to lose muscle as fast as I have the last 3 weeks because if I continue at this rate, I won't be able to put that water bottle on the cooler much longer!

Anyway, thanks again for the thoughts.
I think most of the following applies, whether you're at home or on the road.

Sock reference: That's an easy one. Socks break the conductivity which needs the moisture from your feet to best conduct the electric impulse. Some scales mention wetting the bottoms of your feet, lightly, before measuring.

Extra packet: That's easy too. If you're hungry, and drinking at least 100 ounces of water a day, at least, have another packet.

Argumentative? Hardly. Inquiring minds want to know.

Away for 2-3 weeks: Sorry, I missed where you're going so that might make a difference. But there is nothing to prevent your going to Wal Mart, buying a $1 tape measure, and keeping your own chart of measurements while you're gone. Start it the morning your leave and include weight, 5 strategic measurements, number of steps you walk each day (try to work up to 10,000 and a pedometer helps), and amount of water you drink. Walking hotel corridors is safe, warm, and easy as pie. I used to be able to get in a mile (2,000 steps) for each of the 20 minute intermissions at the NY State Ballet by just walking around the upper atrium. You can also take your blood pressure at most Wal Marts and sometimes get weighed.

And here someone more knowledgeable than I might chime in. Elizabeth where are you? Stretch bands are light, portable, and great resistance exercise. (Do you know how hard it is to write a lucid post when you're playing fetch?)

If you stay on plan and do some light exercise, you should do great. Cheers.
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Old 10-31-2010, 04:24 PM   #10  
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I think most of the following applies, whether you're at home or on the road.

Sock reference: That's an easy one. Socks break the conductivity which needs the moisture from your feet to best conduct the electric impulse. Some scales mention wetting the bottoms of your feet, lightly, before measuring.

Extra packet: That's easy too. If you're hungry, and drinking at least 100 ounces of water a day, at least, have another packet.

Argumentative? Hardly. Inquiring minds want to know.

Away for 2-3 weeks: Sorry, I missed where you're going so that might make a difference. But there is nothing to prevent your going to Wal Mart, buying a $1 tape measure, and keeping your own chart of measurements while you're gone. Start it the morning your leave and include weight, 5 strategic measurements, number of steps you walk each day (try to work up to 10,000 and a pedometer helps), and amount of water you drink. Walking hotel corridors is safe, warm, and easy as pie. I used to be able to get in a mile (2,000 steps) for each of the 20 minute intermissions at the NY State Ballet by just walking around the upper atrium. You can also take your blood pressure at most Wal Marts and sometimes get weighed.

And here someone more knowledgeable than I might chime in. Elizabeth where are you? Stretch bands are light, portable, and great resistance exercise. (Do you know how hard it is to write a lucid post when you're playing fetch?)

If you stay on plan and do some light exercise, you should do great. Cheers.
I'll be in Colorado and New Mexico helping my parents while my dad has knee replacement surgery. I'm pretty sure I'll get a fair amount of exercise pacing the hospital halls, but it won't be like I'm dancing most nights anyway.
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Old 10-31-2010, 05:05 PM   #11  
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I'll be in Colorado and New Mexico helping my parents while my dad has knee replacement surgery. I'm pretty sure I'll get a fair amount of exercise pacing the hospital halls, but it won't be like I'm dancing most nights anyway.
Sorry. Now I remember and wish you, and your parents, well. Not exactly a time to dance up and down the halls.
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Old 10-31-2010, 06:19 PM   #12  
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As far as losing some muscle because our bodies need less, I get the theory, but I also know that the one time I actually had an immersion body fat test, the suggestion was for my weight to be right about the 185 I'm shooting for now and at that point I was dancing much more than I am now but I'd like to be at that level of fitness. I'm not looking for a skinny physique, if that makes sense. I would much rather be a muscular 185 than a skinny looking 165 though honestly, I have a hard time thinking I could ever weigh 165 again because I was probably in 6th grade the last time I did!

Anyway, I hope this doesn't come across as argumentative because that's not at all how I intend it. You are all such a great resource and sounding board to think through theories and ideas. I really value your thoughts and input. I did send an email to my coach so I'll see what she says when I go in Wednesday, or possibly sooner if she emails back before then.
Argumentative? You weren't argumentative at all, just asking questions and explaining how you're looking at your situation.

You've had good success doing what you're doing. Try having an extra packet on the day you dance. Maybe in the car on the way home? If expense is a concern, use one of the alternate products or a small number of nuts (e.g. 12 almonds, 1/3 cup soy nuts) When you get to 185, assess where you are. You may be ready to stop the intense phase 1 there, or you may decide you want to continue. It's hard to know until you get there.

If you're really concerned about your LBM measurement, you could check with your coach about starting resistance training. I don't know much about what to do, only that RT is really the only way to increase LBM (muscles and bone).

My approach for me: I'm probably 20-30 lbs from my best weight. As you know I'm phasing off. In December I intend to start some physical training for the fat loss and body shaping. I'll be eating in a way that supports that those goals -- fat loss & increasing strength.
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:09 PM   #13  
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Thanks! I think my brain is trying to process so much information right now in so many areas of my life that I'm waiting for the "blue screen of death"! I'll wait and see what my coach says, but I did have a little extra protein this evening. We'll see how that works for me in the morning.

You all rock! Thanks!
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:19 PM   #14  
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No, no! No blue screen of death! I discovered earlier this year that the dreaded BSOD is most often the result of a janky device driver. Failure to communicate and all that. We don't want you to have any of those conditions!

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Old 10-31-2010, 10:42 PM   #15  
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No, no! No blue screen of death! I discovered earlier this year that the dreaded BSOD is most often the result of a janky device driver. Failure to communicate and all that. We don't want you to have any of those conditions!
I think my cache is just getting clogged up and I could stand to install about 16 MB of RAM and a terabyte hard drive! I'll be fine though. I remember the 3 finger salute and I've got people that listen to me babble!
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